some advice from you guys...

I think it is important not to compare situations. While it migt push some buttons for you Christie, Erin is here for support nd valuable information that will help guide her, not criticism that will cut her down. She is trying to do the best she can.

No one is here to hurt Erin. None of us are guilt free. This, obviously, is a very sensitive topic for adoptive families, as well as for "first mothers". Unfortunatly, it's true that any child who suffers loss, particularly losing a family he or she has been in for months, will definitely be hurt from what happened, whether it's admitted or not. That's just the reality. As a foster and adoptive mother, I know what attachment issues can lurk in a very, very young child and it is not only unfortunate, but very frightening to see how a young child deals with those issues. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we were all more cognizant of a child's issues so that no child had to go through the trauma of conflicted birth parents and hurting adoptive families? We all need to pray very, very hard for Erin's child, that, indeed, he ends up where God intends for him to grow strong . . . forever.

Dear Erin, I would like to suggest that you post your situation on the Birthparents support forum here at a.com where you will likely find other birthparents who have had to endure unethical practices by adoption agencies and adoption lawyers. Your experience is not uncommon, and I believe you will find support there. An unethical adoption agency tried to take advantage of my daughter's pregnancy situation so I COMPLETEY understand where you are coming from. Again, be proud that, in the circumstances, you found a safe place to give life to your child. Hugs:flowergift: Happy G'Ma

Good idea happy grandmom!!!

Dear Erin=You are very loving and responsible and good hearted to have carried your baby to term. You had an unplanned pregnancy and decided to set aside your own needs to nurture you body and the growing life inside of it.Not everyone does that.I have given birth and carried children inside of me and it was NOT for the weak at heart. I applaud you for GIVING LIFE ;~))) BTW,this is not an abortion/adoption debate, it is merely to applaud you for the huge undertaking that pregnancy and birth entail that is invalidated many times while attempts are made to shame natural parents.So yes, that stands alone as quite a loving undertaking of carrying your son to term and giving him life.

First, Erin, let me say that this particular post was written not to you nor against you. I wrote it with generalities in mind and to continue the discussion on the Putative Father's Registry. I did not mean in any way to hurt you. If you will re-read it you can see that in this post the only thing I mentioned about your case was that we do not know what the PAPs did or did not do - that is all. I am sorry if you took offense at what I wrote. Instead of just talking about your case I was talking about the PFR, TPR, and discussed it in reference to my case. This is my view, my opinion, and was not intended against you in any way. Erin, I was talking about ANY child being abruptly removed from a family. Not EVERY child will suffer from an attachment disorder who gets placed, but many will. I'm sorry if you don't think that is nice. I did not intend it to be against you or your son. Again, I did not write this post against you. I meant it as part of a larger topic which came up in the course of the thread. I certainly apologize if you took it to mean I was using my case against you. Erin, I know you are hurting. I am sorry for your pain. I do not mean to ever add any more pain to what you are going through. I do think that anyone involved in cases like yours - and this includes lawyers, judges, birthparents, adoptive parents - need to take into consideration the emotional impact this will have on the child. Not just your child, Erin, but any child. NOT to mix up our cases - but one thing we did during MY litigation was to consult with a child psychologist regarding the possible removal of our son and the impact it would have on him. I also paid for the birthmom in my case to go and talk with the same psychologist privately so that she could know how my son was doing and what might happen if he were removed from us. Actually I took him to three separate child psychologist, developmental expert, and child psychiatrist. I did this because I wanted to know what ramifications would occur to him if he were removed from us. They provided me with invaluable insight which allowed me to make informed decisions. It may be possible that your child would do better with you and/or his father. But it is important to be informed in order to do the best for your child. You can do research on it, speak to a child psychiatrist, etc. NOT to bash you - just to let you know that there is help and information available regarding this topic (removal into another home). And if your son is going to be impacted by all of this I am sure you want to know how and what can be done to minimize any potential pain or trauma to the child. I'm sorry you took my post as a personal attack. Again, it was certainly not meant that way. CS

well as i know that it can be traumatic for the child...i have a friend who was passed around from foster parent to foster parent lived on the streets till she was 16 then finally got a family who helped her out...she now is medical school has great friends and has a good life and hasn't been able to meet her birthparents because one is dead and the other is in jail....and she turned out fine...so i don't wanna hear that this will dramtically damage him...or what about Baby Richard or Baby Jessica they all turned out fine and are happy little kids well now one of them is a teenager! if the adoptive parents and the father are gonna be willing to get a long and still have some sort of part of his life after then he'll be fine the adoptive parents are not so innocent as everyone thinks...if i could only tell everyone what they did last summer i don't think anyone would feel bad for them.... i just pray they do the right thing before crimal charges come up and this stuff hits the media!

Bottom line all feelings are being touched by this and that is why this post is still going on. This shows feelings for all sides as a birth mom and as a hopeful adoptive parent. As a hopeful adoptive parent going through a contested adoption, I will be honest with you I know it would be extremely traumatic for any child. I saw baby Jessica being pulled from the ONLY family she knew..and it was horrific. I am glad if she is fine now, but nobody can tell me this did not effect that child. Thank God your little angel is still so young, and it is wonderful that the birth father and hopeful adoptive parents are working together...that would be in the best interest of the child. This is a very, touchy subject. One everyone has their own opinions on. I know from my experience raising our angel for now 2 years...he is bonded and extremely attached, because we are his family and we are all he knows. I could not imagine how he would be if God forbid he was pulled from us....As of now we cannot even leave a room without him yelling "mommy" or "daddy" Your case is totally different- and I am glad that everyone seems to be working to what is best for your baby, so that is all that matters.

erin in the beginning of this thread you were open, now it just seems you are angry at everyone, u and i pm'd a couple of times in the beginning, Erin the first thing you need to do is stop placing the blame on everyone else, what has happened is done, as I told you before you made the decision to give birth which is a blessing but you also made the decision to plave your child for adoption. I have read the story about what you were told by the director and wether that is true or false is not really the issue but the issue is that you made this problem you knew all along who the childs father was; you decided to keep the information from the childs father, imho out of spite, because as u say you assumed he gave you money for an abortion, but putting all that aside what matters now is the child, I will keep him and his adoptive family in my prayers. because they will suffer most they are the bonded ones. if you need to PM me to talk i would be glad to pm with you.

Try as we might, as adoptive parents, we cannot fully understand Erin's issues and why she made the choices she made in relation to the birthfather. As adults, we must make choices and live with the consequences. On the other hand, as an adoptive mother, I am so with you "mommy2behappy" that it is the child and the adoptive parents that have bonded and that will be incredibly hurt (FOREVER) over this very sad situation. Maybe it's true that we cannot truly walk in another's shoes. And, yes, Kelly, that's why this thread continues, all of us trying to understand, all of us hurting for this child and for his parents and trying to under the situation. All of us fear the worst, that our child could be taken from us, particularly, Kelly, you and I and others who have had contested adoptions. The nightmares were incredible, the fear lingers. I doubt we can count on the media to tell us truthfully how Baby Jessica or Baby Richard are doing today. No one, other than those who live with those children, can even begin to understand the pain of those separations. As I've said before, witnessing for myself the manipulation, fear, sadness that even an infant and particularly a todder (non-verbal, as Christie says), takes on from separation and loss, I think I can speak informatively and say that Baby R and Baby J are not just fine today. It just doesn't work that way. I'm not going to state as clearly as I believe where that baby needs to be (Erin's baby) as that would look like bashing and that's not my intention. I am going to ask all of you on this thread to pray very hard for that little guy, because 7 months (and this will be ongoing through a court hearing, I would have to assume, could go on for years) is a significant amount of time to bond to the only family this little guy knows. My heart aches for him, above all, and for the family that counted on being his mommy and daddy forever. God does answer our prayers, let's leave it in His hands . . .

[FONT="Verdana"]Erin,

I am very sorry that this has happened to you and your child. I agree that adults need to take responsibility for their actions, but I also know what it is like to be victimized by an unethical agency. It is very very difficult to be in a crisis pregnancy with little support except for from those who have an adoption agenda for your child. I am sorry that you did not receive more unbiased and loving support. I too lost my child 27 years ago due in large part to unethical and immoral behavior on the part of the adoption agency, so I understand how difficult it was for you. However, I am sorry that you participated in misleading your child's father. I know that you now understand that that was very wrong. As it is clear that you now know, you just have to do your best from now on.

For those who say that this child will be taken from the only family he has ever know, I believe that you are wrong. He had a family (Erin and her boyfriend and their extended family), and he knew a family - his mother Erin. He knew her voice and her smell and the sound of her heart beating. For 9 months he knew her. His life and wellbeing depended upon her. As an infant, I believe and it is commonly understood that he was cognizant enough to know that he was taken from her and that he suffered the loss of her. I wonder what the child psychologist would say about the harm he suffered in the intial separation from his mother - the only family he had ever known? Did ANYONE worry about that? He know faces separation from another family, but at least he would be returned to his first family, a family that he knew for 9 months and who has an incredible connection to him.

I found the whole situation incredibly sad for all involved (except the adoption agency and the director, etc. - they should be prosecuted), but I am not at all swayed by the "only family he had ever known argument." Read the Primal Wound. The author could have written it about my son. His adoptive mother cried when she read it, because she recognized my traumatized son in it. I cried too when I read it. I was devastated. I would never have relinquished, even in the face of the pressure I was under to relinquish, if I had known the damage that separation from me would do to my son. I was told that adoption was supposed to be a good thing for him. That somehow two married parents, rather than two unmarried parents, was more important than being with me. It was not. I can't believe I ever fell for that line. My son is an adult and still struggling to find his place in our family, a family that he claims as his own.

This is a very sad situation. God does answer prayer, but often times the answer is No. Someone will get a Yes to their prayer, and someone will receive a No. I hope that whoever receives a Yes has the decency and the compassion to continue to include the losing party/parties in that child's life, if only for the benefit of the child.

Erin, I don't know what the future holds, but please continue to seek help. There are first mother groups who can help you learn how to begin to cope with the terrible loss of your son. PM me if you want some guidance in this regard. Being a first mother is a life long journey. The loss never goes away and for many it does not diminish. You need to learn how to live with the loss or it will consume you. Let me know if I can help.

Hugs,

Isabo [/FONT]

I have been following this situation bit by bit and I must say that it is a mess! I really feel for all who are involved but my heart aches for the baby and the adoptive parents. I have a contested adoption right now and my baby is 9 1/2 months. I could not IMAGINE having to give my child up now. He has formed such a strong bond with us and only knows what the surroundings have been like for the past 9 1/2 months. Now, I am all for the parents having a right to parent their own child, but it is still going to be so difficult for the adopted family and that poor baby. My prayers go out to all of you - this outcome of this is going to be rough - any which way it falls.

Erin, this is what concerns me most. I would want to know what this would do to my child. I placed that in the highest priority in my case. Children are different. Some will thrive under any condition while others wll not. That was why I took my son to child psychologists to have them evaluate him specifically and make a recommendation. I counseled children with attachment disorders, I teach in college about attachment disorders - but above all else I know that children are unique and will respond in different situations according to their temperament, sensitivity level, etc. You do not know what this may or may not do to your son. And you "don't wanna hear". So I am wondering why you are doing this now. If you have not explored the consequences of your son's removal from his adoptive family, and formed an informed opinion on what his best interest is - then where does HE fit in? Your posts have told us all about the agency, the birthfather, the adoptive parents, your role - but you have said very little about your child. About what is best for him, and why. Have you asked that your son be evaluated by an independent psychologist in order to determine what is best for HIM? Please, please don't close your ears and shut your eyes to the consequences of your current actions. Your son WILL be affected. I never said he would develop an attachment disorder - only that this is an avenue which needs to be explored and considered - in the child's best interest.

i have had his best intrest at heart this entire time day in and day out i think about the problems that will occur and how he will miss them if he comes back and how if he stays with them and then grows up to find out that his father wanted to get him back ...it will hurt him too. What will he think when he hears i placed him and his father never knew...or what about if he stays with them...finds out that he could have been with his biological family and the adoptive parents at this point didn't want to give him back knowing what they did! i am sorry if i am coming off harsh but all I know is i have my sons best intrest at heart and had his best intrest at heart when i found out i was pregnant when i got gestational diabetes and made sure everyday i ate right just so he would be ok...did exercises just so he would be ok and delivered and worried about him every second and nearly died knowing that his heart had dropped when he was on his way out ....so don't tell me it doesn't look like i have HIS best intrest at heart! i have his best intrest more than anyone else in this WORLD! when i told the father i was looking out for MY son bc he deserved to know his father...i was terribly wrong for not telling the father about his first born son! and i would go to jail for my son i would do anything just so he would be happy....everyone is so concerned about the now ...but what about the LATER...when he grows up and finds out about all this ..i want to fix things as much as i can...i love him dearly...i only want what is best and i know that i have posted before lots of things about me being concerned about his well being especially if it came to where the judge said he will stay with the adoptive parents..but i know that i have tried my best and regardless my son will know everything i did ..I did it for him!!

I do know and believe you love your son. It is just ashame the birth father never knew of the adoption plan. My heart goes out to each and everyone of you, but especially that baby. I hope to God your case does not drag out, and it shouldn't. I would think if the birth father is stepping up, then the baby would be placed with him- as long as he followed all the proper steps in order to get his son. As for the hopeful adoptive family my heart goes out to them, and the pain and heartache is horrific. I hope they will keep in mind the best interest of the child. It is hard sometimes being in a contested adoption myself..thank God the birth mom did mention this guy as a potential father..That is of extreme importance in an adoption. This birth father has wavered in his decision, promised us he would sign off then didn't...the minute we knew he wanted to see his son..we froze-we were scared - the baby was close to a year...- but we felt it was in the child's best interest to know his birth father..so we agreed and met with him. We did walk away happy...planning for an open adoption that is what the birth father agreed to...we hung on to his words..his promises..The last we heard he wanted his son back that has been over a year now..nothing has been done. Yet, this holds up the adoption process. I do believe, and would have loved nothing more then to allow the birth father to have been a part of his life.- I do agree with you in saying your baby should know his birth father-Sometimes as hard as it was for us, we needed to put the child's feelings up front- and that is not easy. I hope the hopeful adoptive parents realize that dragging this out in court is not the answer..had our situation been where the birth father really wanted his son and proceeded to take to this to court...I know as much as we wanted our angel that keeping this ongoing is just not the answer. I will pray that soon this will just have a peaceful ending..and your little angel will be where God's plan is for him to be....:wings: