School "issues"...

That is the problem I see with this whole infraction equals tally or pulled card or pulled stick thing. Some things need more serious consequences!When my ds was in K he rarely got in trouble. However, one day he and his friend had a "sword" fight with their lunch boxes. Another teacher brought them back to his teacher's class and she skipped their "strikes" and went straight to their card. It was the only pulled card he had that year. If he had just gotten a strike by his name (3 strikes then you move on to cards) then he wouldn't have cared at all. It would have not been effective. Even though he and his friend weren't fighting, they did learn not to rough house at school.

It really sounds like the "elaborate systems" are nationwide! Wow. Maybe I am missing something, but I remember when I was in school we were expected to behave and when we didn't, we got an immediate consequence. No endless notes were sent home, and your parents were called when there was a true situation to call home about. I even double checked with some of my mom's friends to see what it was like back then, and they confirmed my memories. Yesterday brought home another strike for my son; he forgot to bring his reading book to school. Okay, that's fine...he absolutely needs to remember to bring his books to school. What I find interesting though is another child kicked my son's desk knocking over his accordian folder and when it hit the floor, the clasp got broken so now it will not close. And what do you know....no strike. Hmmm... Surely there has to be a more effective way to enforce classroom rules? And honestly, when my son can't tell me a single thing he learned at school that day but can tell me who got strikes and why.....that's an issue.

And therein lies the problem. During my interning and my short career as a teacher, the attitude of parents have changed from when we were all kids. When we were kids parents backed up the teacher, administration backed up the teacher, and kids knew it. Today, parents (in general) come in with guns blazing just *knowing* their child is being picked on and its all the teacher's fault... because their kids are perfect little angels who would never do anything wrong (yes, I'm exaggerating a bit, but in my experiences that does tend to be the "norm" anymore). And adminstration wants to make the parents happy because if they don't parents pull their kids from that school and the school loses funding. So, administration goes to the teacher and says "look, so and so isn't happy with how their child is being treated. Change what you're doing and do what you have to to make them happy." etc. So, teachers resort to elabroate and not really workable systems to just try and get through the day. Kids with parents that don't have this attitude then just kinda get lost in the shuffle (kinda the squeaky wheel gets the grease type thing) and honestly, in my opinion, get the short end of the stick.There's so much more to what I'm trying to say, but I think that gets my idea across.

I can see your point, but do you really think parents are that much different these days or is it the funding/political issues that are different in schools? I talked with my aunt awhile back and she quit teaching because of the "no child left behind" act and also because of the politics she endured. Is it the parents causing this though? If it is, I can tell them to shut it...no problem!;)

When my daughter was in school, they used to earn "money" for good behavior and then on Friday then bought things from the classroom store. Drove me crazy. You don't get paid for doing what is expected.

I believe parents have changed, just as attitudes in the general public seem to have changed to more of a 'me first' type attitude... or the attitude that they deserve everything handed to them on a silver platter. Granted, this is just things I've observed, but friends/family I've talked with also feel the same way. It stands to reason this would get carried into schools... and we all know how defensive we can be when it comes to our kids. :bullwhip:I do think the funding/political issue has just made it worse, though, since now many teachers feel its two agains one (parents & adminstration vs. teachers). No, parents aren't causing the funding/political crud, but the 'squeaky' parents do seem to try to use it to their advantage as a bargaining chip. I'm with many teachers that the reasoning behind 'no child left behind' was great... but how its been implemented has been a horrible terrible disaster. Instead of allowing all schools to work together for the common good of the children, its been turned into a competition to see who stays afloat. And who loses out in this battle but the children. :( I think teachers are just being torn in so many directions and can't really do what they want... which is to teach the children.Clear as mud, I bet! :arrow:I find it very disheartening that teachers seem to already be frazzled and school has just started.

That's true...the "me first and only me" attitude thing is indeed worse in society, so "duh!" on my part for not seeing that of course it would feed to the school element. It is disheartening to see teachers frazzled so early on. I do know in our case a lot of that is due to high enrollment and huge class sizes. We've called, written and pestered the district on this issue for the last 2 years to no avail. 2 years ago they went from year round school to conventional and I KNOW it's at least 70% of the issue. There's no doubt in my mind about that, because before they made this change, class sizes were smaller, busses weren't as full, and walking in the halls didn't resemble a sardine can. I'm trying to find that balance of supporting the teachers and yet my kids are suffering with these systems that are put in place. It's just not effective at all, imo. What to suggest though? I really don't know.

Our district does have an immediate for 'severe' behavior. Spitting, fighting, using anything as a weapon, etc. get an immediate white card, trip to the principal and a call home. Q received an immediate flip to white and a 3 day suspension for scratching his resource teachers face. I have to say that it actually works well with him. Which I'm surprised with. I agree that many, many parents blame everyone else for their kids behavior. I've found that cultivating a strong relationship with the teacher is good for my son. I let my son's teacher know that I KNOW he isn't perfect, that he can cause trouble. So that when an issue comes up (and they have) where he isn't at fault, they handle me differently. "If it was any other mom, but this mom isn't screaming about it not being her kids fault all the time" My niece is going to school to be a teacher. SHe is being taught they should REWARD appropriate behaviour, not punish bad behavior. HUH? I totally disagree with that. Mis-behavior is punshed or disiplined, not ignored. My son had that at daycare. He decided that he would only 'be good' if he was getting something. And if he didn't want anything he could do whatever he wanted.

This is common among most schools these days. Alot of teachers say they want to 'make the child responsible.' My son is 12 and this is what they told me it is the CHILDS responsibility. I thought this was a little harsh consdiering he is only 12 (still a boy) in my mind and responsibility is something we have to learn. It does not just come with age. I do not feel that it is fair for the chidlren to get in trouble when it is the whole class acting up. To me that is when the question would be on the teacher. My 16 year old the same once they get in high school they no longer bring notes home from my daughters high school. The children are responsible for telling the parents what we need to know. Wow, what a benefit for the child huh they can tell mom what they want and forget what they don't want you to know. I try to remember usually when my children are in trouble at school and loose recess or other for their behavior especially if it is minor that the punishment has already been dealt. I am worried if they hurt some one or if it is disrespectful to the teachers. :) Good luck

Now for the teacher part. Yep, I'm a parent too so I can see both sides. I taught in an inner city school for years , mainly 2 and 3 grade. I had two behavior modification systems in place for my class. There was the class wide ---sticker for doing what they were supposed too. As in, "I'm looking for the first student who has followed all my directions and is ready to begin" First kid (or 2 or 3 depending on the kind of day was class was having) got a sticker on the wall chart. Weekly rewards posted next to chart ---usually stuff like an extra 5 minutes of recess or got to select their free time activity first. Students would choose the goal rewards each week. This worked really well esp for transitions which my kids always struggled with. Students who had a really hard time with behavior had their own personal cards with their own goals set up and rewards. I always set this up with them ahead of time. I had one boy who came from a pretty dysfunctional family. He got a sticker every day if he completed his homework assignments, didn't include getting tests signed because that was impossible. His goal was to have lunch with me and another teacher. I was more into the "catch them being good" theory. Infractions were deal with then and there,though.

As a high school teacher of students with special needs I agree with all of you. Some teachers do give too many rewards for expected behavior. Some teachers are not consistent, and some parents will do whatever they can to have their child not get into trouble. I have had parents yell at me, saying that their child is refusing to do work because of me (home and school). The fact that he talks back, swears, gets other students going has nothing to do with it right? Then I have parents that want their child to do well and be responsible for their actions. The former parents really make me appreciate the latter ones. Then as a parent I have a son in the third grade. On the sixth day of school the teacher told me that she is looking at him for ADHD. On the 6th day of school, without really knowing him and telling me in the doorway to his classroom with an entire class listening. This had NEVER been brought up before, and was a total shock. So was she when she learned that I was a special education teacher as well as a CSE chairperson for my district. She has not initiated a meeting with me, no IST, no team, nothing. He is a high energy child, but not ADHD. I am all for getting extra help if he needs it, so please don't misunderstand me. She expressed concerns about his learning, but his lowest grade on his report card was an 87, his highest a 100. This teacher also uses the card system, but is never consistent about it. DH and I were taking some things at home away if he flipped a green or orange card but will no longer be doing that due to the teacher's inconsistency. We will talk to him about his behavior, ideas on how to change it and why it was wrong, but I can't punish him for something that was ok last week but is not ok this week. His teacher is pregnant and I have to day we are looking forward to her maternity leave. The sad thing is that I have loved every one of DS's teachers thus far. They have all been tough but fair and he responds well to that. Oh well, I'm done spouting now, thanks for letting me rant.

I would have to agree with you about inconsistency. One of the first things I was taught in my teacher ed courses was to be consistent. This always worked with my 2nd and 3 rd grade classes. Wasn't always easy but long term it worked. It also worked quite well for my son who does have ADHD. So well, in fact, that he is finally coming off of his meds. That being said, he had a very young, very immature 7th grade teacher. She would have tantrums at the class if they didin't get what she was teaching. She never told me that he was having behavior issues in his class until I saw his report card. I then spoke with her and we set up a plan. However, she only followed it for 2 weeks. She called 6 weeks after she stopped following through to complain about his behavior. I reminded her about the plan, she agreed to do it (said she stopped because he was ok --duh he knew the consequences of his actions) and then never heard from her again. Needless to say, I was thrilled when he finished the grade and even more thrilled when she left a year later--at least my other son won't have her.

I agree. I spoke with my son's teacher about giving him nonverbal prompts to help him correct his behavior. She agreed to do it and my son kept saying that she forgot about it and she pretty much admitted it as well. I also will be requesting that my younger son NOT have her. The hardest part about all of this is that due to her inconsistency, I don't know if he has a problem or not. Also being a teacher does not help; I want to see it and not having that control is hard. I know the steps that need to be followed and the fact that she doesn't feel the need to try anything doesn't help.

I retired after 30 years in my local public elementary school. I am sending my grandson to a church-based 4-year-old kindergarten and plan to have him in the school his whole career. (It isn't our denomination, but I approve their goals and curriculum, including uniforms.)The K4's use the green-yellow-red system. When my grandson brings home a red (Always for talking!) he gets consequences here at home. He only gets to watch TV on weekends. One red, he loses Friday night, two reds cost him Saturday, etc. One lost weekend brought him around to all greens!

We still have the strike system in place but it's not consistent and when my child got a strike for not having ME look up something on the school site and answer a survey, I decided I wouldn't be partcipating in this strike system any longer. Sorry, but I am not her student and I'm not going to be assigned homework. I stopped worrying about it, told my child he knew what I expected of him and beyond that, I told him not to worry about it. I know it's unsupportive, but I just don't care anymore and cannot wait to get this year over with. She couldn't even be bothered to have teacher/parent conferences this semester...it was an "open house" deal where you went in with your child and your child showed you his folder of selected work. The teacher walked around asking if everything was going okay and with tons of kids and their parents around, who is going to be able to discuss anything?? I chose not to attend and had my child bring his folder of work home for review. On the bright side, my other 3 have wonderful teachers this year and communication is also great. They all have different styles, but effective ones and they are all having their individual conferences next week. Guess 3 out of 4 isn't too bad and hopefully my oldest will not hate school next year.