"Risky business"?

I do not view my sons biomom as a threat at all, but i will not allow him to have any contact with her or her family. simply because our lifestyles are totally opposite. and i choose to raise my son away from any negative influences including the ones in my own family, when my son is of age and chooses to search and have a relationship with his bio family, it is my only hope and prayer that i have instilled in him enough respect for himself, enough education, enough self esteem, enough self love that he will not fall victim to the same things his bio family had drug addiction, alchohol addiction, drug dealing, and gang affiliation. so your statement about all adoptive parents feeling bios are a threat is very unfair and unjust.

I see what you are saying - but I feel your thoughts are bit off. I agree....at some point you are just banging your head against a door that may never open. However, I don't think most aparents feel threatened by birthparents. In fact, most aparents I know really enjoy the relationships they have with their childrens birthfamilies. We're pretty candid with each other - so I don't see it as being any sort of a dance. Are there difficulties? Absolutely!!! Heck, any relationship is going to have it's ups and downs!! I think you are lumping alot of people into your stereotype. Something I try very hard not to do - especially when talking adoption.

Edited... I see from another post that you are a birthmother. SO I do see that you do know something about this. I can still imagine that is harder to do than to write, at least from my perspective. I know there are lots of first parents who come here looking for perspective and a listening ear in situations where they may not have anyone else to see their struggle. I choose remain supportive and let them work it out however they need to. ANd will do the same with the other Mothers of my children. This is true. But I can well imagine that it would be much easier to have a healthy relationship with your child if you also have a relationship, even if just of respect, with the parents who raised your child. And in some ways, if a child is not presented with the option of knowing their origins when they are a child, they may not see it as a choice, especially if their adoptive parents are completely against it and speak of it very negatively. They may not feel that they can do it without the support of the family that raised them. I most definitely have something to say. I find these statements blatant generalizations. I don't know you at all, or how you are affected by adoption (ETA: I do see now that you are a mother to a placed child), but this statement just perpetrates the stereotype that parents who adopt and do so with hope of an open relationship with the other families of their children are just doing so to get their children and then want nothing to do with the other families. I am not in denial about this. I am reminded on a daily basis, just by looking in the faces of my children that they have other families besides mine. I can't deny that. And never will. I can only speak for myself but I do not find the other parents of my children the least bit of a threat in our lives. The relationships are extremely complicated but I believe wholeheartedly that my children will benefit from at least knowing their other families, who they come from. I work daily for the most part to make sure that at least on our end, my kids have the opportunity to have all they need to be who they are. It seems obvious that you are speaking from your own experience. I'm sorry that things haven't worked out the way they should have for you. But please, don't project what happened to you on everyone else. I for one am working hard to keep my commitments I have made to the other families of my children, and to my children. And it's incredibly hard work and draining to do so in our circumstances. I edited my response as I saw another post by OP that states she is a mother to a placed child... so edited with that in mind.

I have seen some pretty broad generalizations about a parents lately, but I think the "snake charmer" analogy really takes the cake.

Love....better to be the charmer than the actual snake though?;) Not that I'd ever call a bparent a snake, just saying if we are the snake charmers then obviously... SIgh! Nah, let's not go there in this world of names...I respect too many of my friends. :love: Nix...I just don't think things are as black and white as you make them to sound. I do agree that if on either side it's not going to work to have a relationship while the child is a minor, there isn't much you can do to change the other person. You can only change your part and do what is best for the relationship with your child either now or in the future. Meaning, if it's the aparent who doesn't want contact then the bparent needs to act in a fashion that will show the child later she acted for the child. Same thing if a bparent doesn't want contact/relationship, then the amom needs to continue to act to show the child it's about them and not her or bmom's needs. Honestly...I think it's a catch 22 situation for both sides a lot of the time and as with any relationship, there carries risk. For some though, that risk seems to be worth it.

I was not making broad generalizations here if you will reread my post(addressing those of you who said that). There were several posts from bmoms in particular I was referring to in my statement. I stated also,that there were adoptive parents out there who were open and informed as I've seen from reading posts here. Unfortunately it was not my personal experience. I was compelled to write my post because, like myself, others were dealing with adoptive moms who not being open or honest. Its really hard to be told how much you are loved by someone who wouldn't let you through the door. I do have a bit of anger about that even though I've made a lot of progress in accepting the cards I was dealt. I had been made promises about the openness of the adoption but that all chaned once the papers were signed. That hurt beyond pain. No sorry, I'm not a drug addict or a looser waiting to show my child the dark side. When someone says I am making generalizations I feel they aren't hearing me and are for whatever reason taking it personally. If you haven't treated someone that way the I'm not talking about you. Face it, there are adoptive parents out there who treat bmoms like a threat.Not talking about any of you OP folks. I didn't get my point accross to some of you who responded (some got what I was saying and I appreciate that). I was actually addressing women who were totally frustrated over a situation they could not change in the same way I had to. I finally stopped beating my head against the wall, realized I couldn't change anyone but myself and waited for my child to turn 18.In my situation communication with aparents was not condusive to reunion. Maybe in there case it isn't also.

I was not making broad generalizations here if you will reread my post(addressing those of you who said that). There were several posts from bmoms in particular I was referring to in my statement. If you will notice, I stated also,that there were adoptive parents out there who were open and informed as I've seen from reading posts here. Unfortunately it was not my personal experience. I was compelled to write my post because, like myself, others were dealing with adoptive moms who not being open or honest. Its really hard to be told how much you are loved by someone who wouldn't let you through the door. I do have a bit of anger about that even though I've made a lot of progress in accepting the cards I was dealt. I had been made promises about the openness of the adoption but that all changed once the papers were signed. That hurt beyond pain and being told by some of you just now that I am mistaken about my feelings doesn't help really. No sorry, I'm not a drug addict or a looser waiting to show my child the dark side. When someone says I am making generalizations I feel they aren't hearing me and are for whatever reason taking it personally. If you haven't treated someone that way the I'm not talking about you. Face it, there are adoptive parents out there who treat bmoms like a threat. Not talking about any of you OA folks, obviously(thought it was). I didn't get my point accross to some of you who responded (some got what I was saying and I appreciate that). I was actually addressing women who were totally frustrated over a situation they could not change in the same way I had to. In my case, I finally stopped beating my head against the wall, realized I couldn't change anyone but myself and waited for my child to turn 18.In my situation communication with aparents was not condusive to reunion. Maybe in their case it will work, but maybe it won't.

I don't want to argue about this but letting others in on your personal experience is a big part of being heard. All I heard (and yes, I got defensive because frankly, there are a lot of us working really, really hard on behalf of our children and their other parents to make our situation work) was that you thought that aparents views bparents as a threat and we do so even if we try to deny it. That is the part I wanted to address. Yep...there are all kinds of adoptive parents, many of whom don't treat the other parents of their kids very well. And it that is your experience then say so. And for that I am sorry because if they're treating you that way, that stinks and it's wrong. I guess I get frustrated when over and over again these kind of stereotypes just keep being said and going unanswered. If you mean some, then say some. I am sure that is hard and I would be angry too. IN fact, for being treated the way you have been, I am angry for you. Those who make promises and then change their minds without doing the work of making an open relationship grow make me incredibly angry, because yes, they give the rest of us that same reputation. And that was the generalization I was getting at. We're not all like that. SOme of us are working really hard and I guess I get frustrated when it feels like (whether you meant it or not, the "snake charmer" analogy was a trigger for me, was over the top) no matter how hard we try, all aparents are put into the same boat and sent up the river. I acknowledge your feelings and if you didn't get that from my first post then I'll say it again. You have a right to be angry, hurt, or whatever you are feeling about what happened to you. As I said, I am angry for you. I guess I wasn't "hearing you" because the only generalization you were making was about aparents. I had to look through the boards to find some of your other posts to even determine where you were coming from. And FWIW, there are some of us who are working to keep adoptions open with the other parents of our children who are struggling with addictions. You can vent all you want, and I will listen, but were you looking for other people to vent with you, or were you looking for some constructive discussion on this issue? Because honestly, I do agree with you, based on what you've said about your situation, that the way the aparents acted is wrong, but how do we begin talking about it (and I do believe you wanted aparent info) in a constructive way? I hope against hope that things work out in reunion with your child. I guess from your post I thought you wanted to hear from aparents. My mistake. But then, I have to say I am totally frustrated as an adoptive parent that I have no way of changing the fact that the birth parents of my children have decided they don't want contact even though that was their original commitment. And that there is nothing I can do about it, even though I've worked my hardest to keep up my commitment to them. SO yeah... there is frustration here, and maybe that's where my original post comes from. Sorry you feel misunderstood. That was definitely my intent. I actually was hoping to open up some constructive dialog. I guess your anger (and mine) got in the way.

I have a feeling I may be one of the birthparents you are referring to, since I've been struggling with things lately, so I'll answer from my own personal situation. First off I was in an open situation at the start. I chose my daughter's parents and developed a relationship with her a-mom. This is a little different than the typical closed scenario where the birthparents and the adoptive parents don't know one another prior to a reunion. We drifted apart, contact ended, and when I sought to reopen contact I did not ask for a relationship with my daughter, I asked to resume contact with a-mom with the eventual goal being contact with DD when everyone is comfortable. And in a case of a minor child, it does have to be when both the a-parents and the child is comfortable. Secondly, my daughter did discuss with her mother thoughts on a relationship with me, and she said she is not ready. Which is FINE. In my case it's not that she isn't allowing her to have a relationship with me. Seperate from that her mother would like me to write and keep in touch through her. I'm not going to turn down an opportunity to know and develop a relationship with the woman who did such a great job raising my daughter just because my daughter's not ready. I still get pics, and updates that I wouldn't get otherwise. I'm not trying to befriend her as a subsitute for a relationship with my daughter, nor am I trying to use her for info until she turns 18. I genuinely feel connected to this woman, which is why I chose her to adopt my daughter. It would be silly to have the opportunity and not take explore it. SHe's let me in the door so to speak, but we can't seem to figure out where I'm supposed to sit :) In my case, I do see our relationship being conducive to reunion, eventually. It's just that my DD is not chomping at the bit to get there right now, it's been overwhelming for her to deal with so far, though we both feel she will come around. I don't think all a-moms are scared of reunion, I don't even think my daughter's mom is, I think she is just trying to get her head around things, as I am as well. Are there problems in the relationship? YES. But show me a relationship that doesn't have problems. We BOTH have insecurities that we have to work on, I am very insecure of my place in DD's life and her mom I'm sure is trying to figure out what my place is too. I don't truly believe that she is malicious in intent. I think this is a new experience for her, and a scary one and she isn't that informed, and I don't fault her on that. I am a little more "educated" on adoption and openess than she is. We aren't on the same page, that's for sure. I don't see her as a "snake charmer", I think that' s kind of harsh. I don't believe she is intentionally stringing me on. That is part of the problem, I can't see where she is coming from in order to work on the relationship and overcome obstacles. I also read into things a lot. I post here when things are too "big" to wrap logic around because I need that objective POV from all the awesome people here, so that I don't go off half corked and cut my nose off to spite my face. (which I will do if I don't vent it out!) So that I dont buy into the stereotypes. Am I frustrated? Yes. Do I think I'm going to change her? No. Do I think there is a way that this can somehow be worked out? Well, it's worth a try. Not as much for me and not for her as much as for DD. And I'll bang my head against the wall till it falls off for her. I could be a threat to my daughter's mom, and you know what, she is entitled to how she feels, justified or not. But if that truly is the case, I see a woman who's trying REALLY hard not to show it. So she is working on it. And I'm entitled as well to feel angry and hurt when promises are broken. We are trying to be contructive and positive, and in a way I have to thank you for reminding me of the ugliness of adoption and it's stereotypes, and refocusing me on the positives of my situation. I'm sorry that your promises weren't kept. You do have every right to feel angry and walk away if that's what you need to do. But in my case, I know in my heart that is not the right thing for me. Good luck!

Of course I wanted some dialogue which we seem to be having. Even though it didn't go in the exact direction I was thinking. I'm not too good at expressing myself apparently. I wanted to hear from anyone with thoughts on what I was feeling. My hat goes off to any aparent and bparent who is working toward knitting lives together with love, trust and honest communication. I wish I had known things were going to turn out as they did in my case as I'd have made a differnt choice of parents( I hate feeling that way too). Before I came here I thought all adoptive parents were mistrusting of bparents. For aparents who understand open adoption this isn't the case certainly. I mean, fear thrives in the dark doesn't it? It would be interesting if someone did a survey to see how things maybe are changing in that respect. My child's parents don't come here to a.com, go to groups or even opened a book on the subject of adoption. Fortunately my daughter wants reunion so I am focused on trying to make it a go. I am trying to overcome some of the problems by focusing on what is going right. It would help to understand the fears of her parents and my own anger which I can't get rid of completely but if I acknowlege it maybe it won't interfere. It seems when emotions get in the way communbication is very difficult. I guess I am trying to understand those(NOT ALL!) adoptive parents who say one thing and act another. Is that fear that makes them do that? When I made the analogy of the snake charmer the snake was not a person or a group of people, it was fear. The flute is maybe the promises that weren't kept in my case, SOME other cases also. I don't think we are so different in that we don't like stereotypes and I am sorry to have offended anyone. It wasn't my intention to "lump". When I read back over it I could see why some of you came to that conclusion. I am here to understand same as anyone. Secrecy and fear are the real enemy here so let's not turn on each other.

Brown, yes,your's was one of the threads that I was refering to, so its good to here from you on this. I was really confused about what you were saying. In my case, amom was avoiding the reunion issue, breaking promises and witholding information same as in the contact issue of our past. It seemed your d's mom was doing the same and you were really frustrated as I had been. I'm glad things are actually going OK as can be expected for you. That being said maybe your communication skills will indeed accomplish your goal.

First Off (((((Hugs)))) ... I really am sorry things didn't work out the best. I do think you are right on many points here. First off, it does center on fear, most all of the desire to protect, not even from a specific person, but from the unknown, is huge in these situations. And you are right, my perspective has been formed through the many, many months we researched the kind of adoption we thought we were capable of, and through knowing firsthand the sheer grief the mothers of my children experienced at the loss of their children, and to learn that no matter how much I think I "need" to protect them from the unknowns, it really in the end, isn't protecting them at all. And it became for me (and one I am still on... I can speak the words and it makes it more real, but often my heart has a hard time following) a journey of my own, to coming to terms with the kind of mother I need to be because of whose children I was parenting. They are children not completely "mine", but I am privileged to be called Momma because another mother made it so. I never will or can forget it. It is etched in my mind because I see them, their other mothers, in their faces. And most of the time that gives me great peace because it is a reminder of all that they are, not just of me, but of another as well. But there are times I can admit, that my heart breaks because things haven't turned out the way I dreamed and it's been hard work and agony at times worrying that my children might face the same struggles. But most of all, I think the greatest fear (for me at least) comes at the times when I am feeling insecure as a mother because it is a great privilege just to be one. So I can imagine that for some, especially those who may not have worked through their feelings about being an adoptive parent, maybe haven't explored or realized they are insecure or fearful at all, would struggle with the child they raised and love wanting reunion. And you know what the saddest thing for me in all this is? It is so unnecessary. THere is great potential for this to be a healthy situation if there had been longterm work, if the adoptive parents of your DD would have kept their end of the deal. It would have been easier, more natural and less threatening for all of you if that were so. Regretfully, the adoptive parents chose another way and it has hurt you and that alone makes it just plain so blasted hard. And that sucks for all of you. I can imagine that the feeling of being threatened at the idea of contact and/or reunion would come from believing that they will lose their daughter altogether to you in the end. And after everything they would be devestated. But that could have been different too, if everyone would have worked together that the child does not become "divided" (that's icky but how else can I say it?) as opposed to the love for the child, by all her parents, become multiplied. I know it's much easier for me to keeping plugging through the hard stuff when I imagine in the end, that my daughter will at least understand that we tried. She may make decisions we struggle with, but she'll know we did what we could, that we did the best we could. ANd that is all I can ask. Like you, I speak from a very emotional place. And that is why your initial post sparked something in me. I understand better now. Thank you. And blessings on your reunion. I'll shut up now and let people who know something about this talk... (((Hugs)))

I read back over the responses here trying to glean what I could from it and, yeah, I sort of get what Brownand Blessed are saying. At least amom is doing her best and they have a line of communication going. I guess I didn't realize a friendship developed between Brown and Amom. Thought she was just trying to ease mom into letting you have contact. Blessed, perhaps you were my most ardent critic who posted so I'm glad we had this "chat". I got some good responses that I think have helped. Seems closed adoption mentality is straight out of the dark ages. I've had a number of adoptee friends throughout my life who's parents weren't comfortable at all with them meeting there first parents and I have read posts from other adoptees of the closed adoption era. Their parents just aren't working on such issues as their child's adopted self for whatever reason. I feel it really is in the best interest of the child and anyone out for the best interest of a kid is my hero. Seems (SOME) parents from closed adoption don't understand the child knowing their heritage as a legitimate need. I suppose my adoption took place in sort of a transitional phase where open adoption was being explored but the "kinks" weren't all worked out. Giving my d's parents the benefit of a doubt, they probably thought they could handle a more open relationship and their feelings changed once the love and parental instincts kicked in(perhaps friends and relatives had an influence also.(they had no oe and nothing to compare it to I am beginning to see) I'm trying hard not to hold a grudge so this post is helping with that. I hope Brown can continue to build the trust she is working toward in her journey. I think the issue of trust in my situation comes from me not being able to trust. I have had to focus on my d and our relationship and maybe someday the parents will see things are better and they haven't lost anything. I suppose if you are trying to accomplish something its best to take the path of least resistance. I'm not as confident I can change anyone. Her parents know I have written her and she has written back but she prefers to keep our relationship between us.

I think sometimes we compare apples and oranges and it can confuse things. Situation with a minor in a healthy home? I think brown is doing the right thing. I think her amom, at least from the view from this side of the internet is, whether intentionally or unintentionally, making it very hard for brown because she (amom) keeps contradicting herself from email to email and then making promises she doesn't follow through on. But I don't think that means brown shouldn't keep doing the right thing, it just means that it's going to suck and not be very fun until something changes. And she's going to need to vent and it's heartbreaking and disappointing. But if I know her (okay I totally DO NOT speak for brown- so PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong), she wouldn't want her struggle to become ammunition for anyone to make generalizations or assumptions about all aparents (that they all lie, or all try to prevent reunion, or whatever). What we need is someone with brown's graciousness, determination, and integrity on BOTH sides of the equation, rather than on neither side. As an aparent it is VERY frustrating for me to hear stories of aparents not being honest or forthright or acting in any way other than with compassion, integrity, consistency and a heart for their child's well being. I can't change that, however much I wish to. What I do hope, though, is that amid the disappointing, heartbreaking and sometimes infuriating stories we can still at least not assume in advance that that is how all aparents will act. We can at least not advise people to enter into contact with suspicion and defensiveness. Let's assume the best about each other until proven wrong. Because if we don't then we can't with integrity object when people do the same from the other side and assume bmoms are going to be.... (fill in the blank with negative assumption). If we all judged all adoptions only from our own- pretty much all of us have a disappointment, injury or something we wish we could change- we could make a laundry list of horrible things to assume about every adoption and every part of the triad. We don't want that coming from ANY direction or any side. I hope that maybe some of the fabbo people here can help restore your faith a little and I do hope that things work out in your relationship and that eventually in can include everyone. Because that would rock.:rockband: Keep us updated.:grouphug:

How old is your child? I ask because it seems like we placed in the same era (early 90's) when OA was starting to get more popular, but people still didn't know what it entailed long term. I think that is one of the issues I'm up against now, is that no one really knew what to expect. We are coming from the same place. I agree with what you are saying here, in regards to not being able to change anyone and trying to take the path of least resistance. Lots of times this way of thinking is what makes me want to cut my losses and walk away until she is of age to be able to contact directly, but seeing that I have already lost contact once, I feel it would make things even harder for me later as I would now have a "record" of popping in and out of her life, KWIM? There are a lot of times where I think my friendship is a hinderance so to speak, but this is how it was from the get go, and I can only work with what I know. I hope that by the time DD turns 18 and the ball is in our court alone, that her mom feels a little more confident as to who I am, and understand that her fears are unfounded. If not I know I've done all I can do to make the situation better, and one day DD will know that. I know that DD is aware of adoption and it's an open topic in her home, but I don't think that birthparents have been. I don't think her mom knows that there is a difference, and until recently, I didn't realize there was either. You can let a child know all you want that they are adopted, that they are loved, accepted, etc, but for them to be comfortable with their adoption story, their hertiage and their origins, their parents need to be just as comfortable discussing that too.I was very suprised that given the fact that our beginning story went so well, that DD has a positive story, she hadn't even seen a pic of her birthparents until she was 15 years old, and I believe she found those pics on her own, despite the fact that DD's a mom had one that I had given her at placement. Not everyone has a good story in their past, but I agree with you that parents SHOULD allow children to explore that side of their adopted self too, regardless of whether a reunion or contact is in the cards or not. I have to thank you for starting this thread, since it's helping me process stuff too :)