Converting a baby

Just seeing this now. . . My understanding is that you need to have an Orthodox conversion if you want to ensure that your child will be recognized as fully Jewish in for Israeli citizenship purposes. In the USA, it's a lot more complicated. There are tons of permutations in terms of who will accept what kind of conversion. Orthodox congregations will generally only accept Orthodox conversions; other denominations have other perspectives. We are Reform - we thought about getting an Orthodox conversion, but then we asked realized that as Reform Jews it didn't make sense to reach out to a part of Judaism that we don't feel a great connection to. We haven't done it yet (better get to it!) but we plan to have the conversion done in our own Reform shul BUT in as halachac a way as possible. One of my best friends is a Reform rabbinical student who was born non-Jewish and had a Reform conversion to Judaism. She has been a great guide and comfort to us in figuring out this process. HTH!

I hope I don't insult anyone with my ignorance but this thread caught my eye. I gave my son up for adoption in 1986. He was adopted by a couple in New York. In the adoption papers there was a paragraph stating that I give permission for him to be raised in the Jewish faith and it needed my signature. It wasn't in my husband's paperwork, only mine. He signed consent before our son was born, I obviously did it afterwards. Can anyone explain to me why it was so important that it was actually documented and signed? What happens or usually happens when a child of a catholic mother and ukrainian orthodox father (or anyone not of the Jewish faith) is adopted by a Jewish couple? Thank you in advance.

Israel recognizes only Orthodox conversions as valid. However, the possibility of choosing to make aliyah is a long way off for your child-to-be. You don't know what he/she will decide when he/she is old enough to choose Israel or the U.S. If you are not Orthodox, it probably makes sense to consider a non-Orthodox conversion. In fact, some American Orthodox rabbis will not convert a child who is not going to be raised in an Orthodox home. Nowadays, there are Conservative congregations that have Kosher mikvaot. Most Conservative mikvaot welcome all members of the Jewish community. My daughter was converted in a mikvah attached to a Conservative synagogue in Washington, DC. The mikvah, itself, was built in the traditional manner, and the ceremony was traditional; however, I had female Conservative and Reform rabbis as witnesses. I subsequently had a naming ceremony for Becca in our Reform synagogue and sponsored the Oneg Shabbat afterwards. In case you adopt a son, you should know that there are also Conservative and Reform mohelim (and mohelot, in some cases). Most are physicians. This benefits adoptive families whose children come home well after birth, and require a brit milah done in a hospital; the mohel has hospital privileges and can do both the medical and the religious aspects of the circumcision in the operating room. Sharon

MyCatharsis: What happened in your situation had nothing to do with either civil law or Jewish law. The adoptive parents and the agency were simply treating you with great courtesy and respect, in ensuring that you understood and accepted their plans for converting the child whom you were relinquishing. Your signature would have been considered more important than your husband's, simply because you were the person who bore the child. However, neither signature was required, unless your state had some unusual requirement back then. By U.S. law, once a child has been adopted, the new parents can raise a child in any faith they want, can make any plans for his/her education, and so on. He/she carries the same status as a child born to them. Technically, they do not have to ask the birthmother or birthfather for permission. However, it has become increasingly recognized as good practice to allow the birthmother to choose the characteristics of the adoptive family, before agreeing to place her child with that family. Some birthmothers will choose not to place a child with a family of a different religion, and that is their right. Religiously, adoption of non-Jewish children is permitted by Jewish law. However, because Jews were often subjected to forced conversions over the centuries, many have some strong feelings about protecting people from forced conversions. Some Orthodox families will not adopt a non-Jewish baby, because they don't feel that it is right to make a baby Jewish, since he/she isn't able to consent to the conversion. Other Jews simply insist that the birth family be fully informed about their religion and give consent to the conversion; this may have been the thinking in your situation. And still others have incorporated into a child's Bar or Bat Mitzvah ceremony, an opportunity for the child to reaffirm the decision to be Jewish, which his/her adoptive parents made for him years before. Orthodox and Conservative Jews believe that a child's religious status is carried by the mother. In other words, if a child is conceived by a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man, the child is considered Jewish; however, if a child is conceived by a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man, the child is considered non-Jewish, and conversion is required if the family wishes to raise him/her as a Jew. Some Reform Jews follow Orthodox and Conservative practice, as I do; however some Reform Jews feel that a child can be considered Jewish if EITHER parent is Jewish. Once a child has had a religious conversion, he/she is fully Jewish, and under Orthodox and Conservative law, the child born to a woman who has converted to Judaism is fully Jewish. When a non-Jewish child is adopted by a Jewish family, the parents will want to give the child the same religious status as a biological child. For Orthodox and Conservative Jews, the only way that can be done is via conversion. Some Reform Jews follow Orthodox and Conservative practice, as I do, while others feel that no conversion is needed if the child will be raised as a Jew. Conversion of a girl is a relatively simple matter. The child is taken to a mikvah, or ritual bath, by a parent. (Some natural bodies of water, such as the ocean, also qualify as mikvaot.) The parent fully immerses the naked child briefly in the water, and then recites certain blessings when the child is lifted up. Three rabbis, often standing behind a door to preserve the modesty of the child and parent (who wears a swimsuit), must hear the blessings. They then issue a certificate attesting to the conversion. With a boy, there's an added step, based on the story of Abraham in the Bible. In the weeks before immersion, the boy must undergo ritual circumcision, since it was said that Abraham had himself and the males in his family circumcised, when he decided to accept God. Traditionally, all Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Jewish males are circumcised, often on the eighth day after birth. Basically, ritual circumcision is the same as medical circumcision, except that certain prayers are recited. If the child has already been circumcised non-ritually prior to adoption, then all that is needed is a ceremony called "hatafat dam brit", in which a tiny drop of blood is drawn to symbolize the circumcision, and appropriate blessings are said. Once the boy heals from the circumcision, he goes to the mikvah, in the same way as a girl would. Many families hold a special naming ceremony, after the conversion, to announce the child's Hebrew name to the world and generally introduce him/her to friends and relatives, although this isn't religiously required. The ceremoney is held either at home or at the synagogue. My daughter went to the mikvah on a Thursday, and then was named during a Friday night service at our synagogue. Her Hebrew name, Rivka Gilat, was announced, and the rabbi blessed us. We sponsored the Oneg Shabbat, or "Sabbath Joy" reception after the service, where the congregants drank coffee, tea, or punch, ate cookies and challah (egg bread), and greeted my newly Jewish child. Several of our relatives and friends, including some non-Jewish friends, attended. I hope this little explanation helps you understand Jewish adoption and conversion practices. I also hope that it eases your continuing grief, to some extent, to know that the people who adopted your child respected you enough to make very sure that you knew of and accepted their plans to convert your child and raise him as a Jew. I pray that he has become a good Jew, and a good young man, who has been taught to respect and admire his birthparents. Sharon

MyCartharsis - I don't think I can add anything to Sharon's very complete response to your question! But I did want to send you my deepest hope that you are united with your son again soon. Many hugs to you.:grouphug:

Sharon, was you daughter's mikvah at Adas Israel? Just wondering since I grew up there and did my own pre-nuptial mikvah there.

Hi, Do you have an answer to your problem? I am also adopting a baby girl in June and would like to know how to do the conversion in order for it to the recognized by the Israeli Rabbanute.

Hello, Wow, what a trip to see this again. We were placed with a baby girl in Sept 2008, finalized in Dec 2008, and converted/named her in Feb 2010. We asked around and basically, though we are Conservative and do not claim to be anything but, we decided to go with an Orthodox conversion. We decided to do this because of the reasons I stated in the OP. We understand that there is no guarantee that every Rabbi everywhere will recognize it (we've heard some weird stories), but we thought we'd have a better chance with Orthodox. We thought it was esp important with her being a girl because our decision will affect her children as well. And where we live (Atlanta) the religious folks are pretty down to earth and it was easy to "cross over." We waited until after her first birthday because our regular Rabbi had a bad experience with "losing" a baby in the mikvah. Baby didn't drown, but they couldn't "find" him for almost a minute and it was close. By the way, she did great in the Mikvah! You can watch a video here: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NcuIdIZba0]YouTube - 20100212_111051.m2ts[/url] That's our son counting.

Hello. We are conservative and brought our daughter to the mikvah with 3 consertavie rabbi's as wittnesses. Can you please tell me what makes a orthodox conversion? Thank you.

I am Israeli. Israel recognizes only orthodox conversions. For a conversion to be orthodox, you must prove to three orthodox rabbis that you are a shomer mitzvot, i.e. keeping the Jewish laws such as 1. eating kosher 2. keeping Shabbat 3. Live within the Eruv region from an orthodox synagogue 4. Plan to send the kids to an orthodox school etc. In short - things that you cannot do if you are not orthodox. So that's the bad news. The good news is that your child can still make aliyah with a conservative conversion. Yay! :cheer: In the case of a conservative conversion, in the Israeli identity card (the so-called "teudat zehut") it will leave the religion/ethnicity portion blank. I converted my two kids through my conservative congregation. Coming from Israel, I know the orthodox rabbis quite a bit, and flexibility is usually not their strong side when it comes to interpreting the halacha. ;) What broke the deal about converting my kids in the orthodox way was that I do not live within 1 mile from an orthodox synagogue, so they told me to sell the house and move. Sorry, cannot. So the only restriction that my kids will face in Israel - should they decide to make aliyah one day - is that their religion/ethnicity section in the ID care will be empty. Big deal. We secular folks in Israel have learnt not to get too intimidated by the religious pressure of the orthodox sector... Hope this helps ...

Hi Wizard,I live in Israel, and I am a secular Jew. You probably already know this, but I feel I should say this:I am afraid your kids (or anyone with a non-Orthodox conversion), if they make Aliyah, will run into hardships and obstacles here with the religious establishment (for example: when getting married). One way to work around this obstacle is to do a "Cyprus wedding".Of course, they will have all the civilian rights: full citizenship, Bituach Leumi (social benefits), employment, right to vote, etc. The problem is that some critical aspects of personal life are being controlled by the Rabbinate instead of the state.When my son became Bar Mitzvah, he did his Aliyah la-Torah at the Conservative Synagogue. I like the Conservative community, as they respect diversity. One Orthodox colleague of mine felt I insulted him by letting my son have his ceremony with the Conservative community - [hold tight:] - instead of "THE" Jewish one.Fortunately, most Israelis are not like that.

I know this very well, and I remain unimpressed. I don't let the Rabbinate run my life, and I don't sign up for their scare stories either. Let's think about this rationally, not emotionally. SO WHAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN? So my kids will not be able to get married in an orthodox ceremony - BIG DEAL. Yeah, that kinda implies that they will get married to folks who are as unimpressed by the orthodox system as I am, granted. And then if, God forbid, they divorce, they don't have to go through the antiquated orthodox divorce in which a woman totally depends on a man to give her the divorce agreement, i.e. the 'get'. EVEN BETTER. (And I say this because I went through such a divorce and got blackmailed by my ex-husband because I needed his agreement for the divorce). And wow, my kids will be able to get the full civilian rights. WONDERFUL. In other words - the whole package deal is exactly what I want. If the Orthodox folks won't like it - too bad.:arrow:

Yehudit: Yes, Becca went to the mikvah at Adas Israel. It's a very popular mikvah among the internationally adoptive families in the area, and open to families of all Jewish traditions. The wait for an appointment can get long, sometimes, given that non-Orthodox Jews are increasingly returning to the practice of going to the mikvah for spiritual cleansing after or before various life events. Of course, it's also long when it comes to conversions, because it's never easy to get three rabbis to be in the same place at the same time! One of my friends, who is Reform, chose not to go to the mikvah with her children immediately after adoption. Her personal belief is that a child is Jewish if he/she is raised in a Jewish home. Her oldest daughter just had her Bat Mitzvah, and in preparation for it, she chose to go to the mikvah at Adas -- in her opinion, not to be "converted", because she already felt Jewish, but in AFFIRMATION of her Jewishness. Although I personally chose the traditional approach, I am very impressed by the Reform movement's willingness to embrace an "affirmation" ceremony, and even more impressed by the girl's very strong personal commitment to Judaism. Since the girl's younger sister wanted to be included, by the way, the Mom let her go through conversion at the same time. Sharon

I converted as an adult and will have my child converted as well. I spoke with my rabbi about this because I had concerns. As long as a conversion takes place outside of Israel the child (or adult) is recognized as Jewish by the Israeli government. I also do not have a baby yet; I am waiting to be matched. I have thought a great deal about what I want to do, and the most important thing for me is making sure that my child knows he is "just as Jewish" as anyone else. Having an Orthodox conversion when I am Reform, even if I could find a rabbi willing to do so, would tell my child that our tradition is somehow less valid than another. It is important to me that my child be converted in the community I plan to raise him in rather than one someone else thinks is the "right" kind.

I am jew French and I didnt find informations about jews persons who adopt children in France. I would like to know where jewish American or Canadian choose to adopt in the world. And also is there any person who already adopt in Polynsie ? Thanks a lot.:banana: