Help please

Janey So good to hear from you. Sorry I haven't been around in a while took a week off and went to a friends house for a much needed break both from work and the reality of life. Thanks for the kind words. You really help me. I have not heard from Denise and I have not been able to bring myself to email her. It just doesn't feel right I can't explain it. I think I am afraid she will not answer or blast me. I think about it and then can't do it. I love her but I just don't feel like begging her to love me, if that makes any sense. She may never and I know I can't make her. It still makes me so sad, and mad. I had been going through a really angry time before I took the week off. I thought I would stroke out I was so angry. I couldn't believe how I had lost my true self in all the fear, anger and profound saddiness. Tell me how you are. Tks again...Cindy

I don't remember parts of the hospital.. and I did not get to hold my son.. they at least told me he was a boy.. And I also forgot.. and did not think of him.. it was what I was told to do.. Jackie

I never thought I had the right to any info. I was the bad girl and this was the consequense of my actions. I sadly realized the other day that throughout my life I have avoided forming any real solid bonds with any one. I used to think "good thing" because I have lost everyone I held dear. Now I wonder if some how I was sending out vibes that said I don't care if you leave and of course as we know we usually get what we fear most. Even though I thought I was loving my other kids I wonder if somehow even though they could not have guessed that was part of what they felt from me. I know I froze when I had to leave Denise in the hospital and knew I would never have her in my life. I think maybe at that young age I may have said "screw it I won't ever let any one else close to me and I will never hurt like this again". Only those of us who have had to go through this most terrible loss could ever understand. I bet it is true because I have to be honest I have very few people in my life and if they left tomorrwo I would be fine. I think as each of the people who I loved left me I got harder and harder. I can go longer and longer without giving them a nudge to see if they care, which they don't. I know it takes a lot of energy to keep this wall up but I can not imagine what would have happened if I had not be strong, hard, I would have been in the psych hospital. So now I am totally alone. I have tried to reach out to my other kids and each time I am rebuffed I feel myself getting harder and harder. Partly protective but I honestly hate it. I know it all started with Denise. That was a wound that has been the basis for every decision I have ever made. I know that now. Has any one else had that experience????

Hey Cindy! :-) :camo: Or maybe you are finding your true self? (said with love and respect). For me....so hard sometimes to understand how convoluted this journey is. All the emotions flying to the surface. Yikes!! I liken this to that scene from Castaway where Tom Hanks is in the raft on the storm sea, being tossed about with no land in sight, the hard rain pelting down on him and he's adrift on his way to a new destination. Such a powerful thing! I have spent most of my life projecting outward; reacting to what is going on in the world around me - instead of the world within me. Now...learning a new way.....turning inward and saying "how does this make me feel" or "My god, this hurts! Can I really handle this?" The inventory of the self. Never easy and not just because we come across our "icky" parts but because we discover new strengths and good things and these can be just as hard to accept; sometimes harder. I had written that my reunion with my children is also a reunion with myself and I can feel in my heart that that is so. Whatever comes of it, I will be the next Janey that I am meant to be, I just have to trust that I will not be perfect in any way. But I will be more human than I was the day before and able to do myself and all 4 of my children better justice by showing them that acceptance of my own soul leads to acceptance of others. Janey PS I am glad that you took a vacation! Good for your for caring for you! :cheer:

I have not read all the replies yet, but as usually Jackie is on spot. She knows what time it is, as far as reunion and had great advice. Of course her counsel comes from the hard work she has put into her own reunion. There's lots ofpain , tears and acceptance behind her words. OK enough about Jackie lol. I am an adoptee and can sort of relate to what your bdaughter is going through. For me, the important stuff was medical info and then when I found them I wanted some questions answered. I did not want a relationship but that is easy to say when you don't know who they are. In my case my bmom was already dead and any of her family members lied (on even had me convinced it was a surrogacy). After the novelty of finding them wore off, it was like"mission accomplished". I got the medical info and there really nothing more to say or talk about. Bsibs made it clear they were not interested in a sib relationship (except for one who was a heroin addict and played me for $$$ but that was short lived). What I am trying to say is sometimes for some adoptee finding is enough. It is sort of like the thrill of the chase and OK so now I know type of thing. Another thing is even though I knew bfamily all my life(just didn't know they were bfamily) I don't know if I would have turned out so well had I been raised with them. They are/were very disfunctional(I would never tell them but it is pretty obvious) I guess the whole thing for me(I can only speak for myself) is once that curiousty was fufilled and my medical information was obtained that is all I really need. I have no desire to pursue anything more and though I do not think they would ever attempt to begin a relationship, I am don't think I would welcome it. I was curious as to what kind of relationship bdaughter had with her afamily. I believe that many times this has alot to do with how these reunions go. It was very easy for me to walk away from bfamily because I had and was raised in a stable loving secure relationship with my afamily. At any rate, I am about to read the rest of the replies. EZ

janey I you may be right. I really shut down at 16 and I think that maybe it is like we say with A&D, that your maturation stops when addiction begins. I look now and it is like I was sleep walking through life. How ya doing Janey? Thanks so much for staying in touch. I love hearing from all the ladies here....Cindy

Thanks for your input. Interesting. My daughter did not find out she was adopted until last october. She was 44 and her adopted family kept the secret to their graves. She said she always thought that she had been adopted but she was always told no. I know she loved/cared for them I know she was by her account "given everything she ever asked for", probably out of guilt, she was an only child and they could. I also know she HAS to be dealing with intense anger at her adopted par. because of the lies and indeed she has said so. I also know that she is probably letting some of that anger flow onto me, and that she is probably dealing with legitimate anger at me for letting her go although she is well aware I had no choice. Pleae don't get me wrong I don't begrudge her any of her feelings. I am sure she got more than she would have ever gotten, with regard to financial and physical things, than she would have ever gotten with me. I could never have given her what they gave her. And given the mess me and my other kids are going through, a very dysfunctional relationship, partly due to me and partly due to their father, she was probably better off. That being said few of us come from what society terms a "fully functional family". We all have our warts and scars. What she is missing now however is the fact that I am a much different person than she would have known then, and this goes for my other children also, and she is missing having a relationship with a much more emotionally healthy, mature mom. It is to me, as things are today, the biggest shame. Yes I was a young stupid girl, Yes I fought my way through life but now I am so different. I have so much to give and the only person/people who mean anything to me, my children, are missing out on what could really be a wonderful fun, interesting realationship with a person who truly loves them. I think, no I know, that it is sometimes very hard for people to make the transitition, both emotionally and physically, from young child to adult with regard to our parents. Sometimes it is very hard for parents also. But the truth is to waste a relationship with blood is, to me, wasteful, if, and I say this from a place of caring, the relationship is not dangerous (i.e. drugs, abuse ect). Life is so short. I am older and believe me realizing how important the people you love, and those you love, are to your life. Maybe she will never care. I don't know but I can say with all my heart that she is missing out on the most basic relationship, that of a biological mother, not taking anything from adopted parents, and her child. Thanks so much for answering. Hope to hear back from you. Cindy:thanks: :loveyou:

Jackie I reread this today. Today I am in a much different place and today what you said hit home with a bang!!!! I have been avoiding writing a email to her even though I have not heard from her, and I could not figure out why. Today I see it. I was being a victim again!!! :3d: :thankyou: I am now really thinking about this from a different vantage point. I think, although I do not know for sure, that I will probably follow your lead. Not copying you, just think what you said makes SOOOOO much sense. How can I ever thank you enough???? Even though I know I have grown and become healthier it still amzes me when I have another break through. Thanks again.... Cindy

Cindy, I'm a reunited adoptee, just a little older than your daughter. I feel for the pain that both of you are going thru. Adoption, reunion, lies, and secrecy are all had to live with. I know it is difficult but maybe you can step back and see her as you would a patient. You said that she is in her mid 40's and was an only child, just found out she was adopted after both parents had died last october, searched and found you very quickly after that, had a f2f with you, rejected by bdad and siblings (currently), ........ OMG - how much can one person deal with in less than 1 year. And, if she has a husband and/or children also, she still has to deal with their needs and wants daily/hourly. In my opinion, the fact that she is putting one foot in front of the other is amazing. I'm glad she is getting counseling. Just finding out you are adopted as an adult is like the ground shifting. Most of us who always knew we adopted grew up with the ideas of chosen, special, wanted, loved by both bmom and aparents. Many of us know that our afamily is our family and dna doesn't change that. Those who found out later that their parents, whom they loved and trusted, lied to them about the most important thing - their identity - don't have those internal, ingrained dialogues about adoption. She has to be reeling - just from that. I know it is very hard and I'm sure that no matter how much I can imagine it hurts, it is even worse than that. This is definitely going to require the patience of Job and lots of time. Peace.

Hey Cindy, That is exactly how I was. Doing the zombie dance; don't think, don't feel, just clean the house, bake, go to work, pay bills, be respectable; that last the ultimate goal. And life and happiness? Those were backburner issues. How am I today? Not so good. I started out strong and then sort of dived into a despair. It came over me at work. There were two kids; a sister and brother running around playing Spiderman or something like that. It was just your everyday scene and a bit of that viscious grief I've been letting in lately a bit at a time so that I can let it bleed out, well that overcame me and I had to shut the office door and sit behind it, my fist clenched up to my mouth to bite back the tears. On the way home though I let the tears out. Now I'm in that quiet space my husband has come to know so well. But I suppose it will be like this for a time. Strong days, weaker days..........all human days. Hugs to you! Janey

Denisesmom And there lies the rub.. others telling us how we feel.. how we need to act.. because we broke their rules.. I have a real hard time getting close to people.. real time.. I do not want their judgment.. I do not want their ‘rules’.. I worry that I can not set a good enough boundary with them.. On line I can.. I can open up totally.. That is so unhealthy emotionally.. when you stand back and look at it.. I did the same thing.. I had my son.. he was a phantom and I did not have the courage to go against the rule and see him.. Yell and scream till they allowed me to see him.. Noo.. I obeyed.. I was guilty as charged.. So wrong.. I can handle any emotional loss.. there is a part in me that is broken.. totally broken.. And this is why I understand when a woman says no contact and shuts the door.. Why feel feelings? Why go into that? I remember one day telling a friend that I was going to check into the local hospital for folks who need help mentally.. The friend said they would not take you.. you are functioning.. You are just fine.. Ha.. I started doing therapy and one time (this when I had decided to divorce my hubby did not happen) a woman said to me after I told her about the relinquishment etc.. she said.. “You are one of the ones that can cope.. you fly under the radar”.. And she told me she could not take me on as I had too many issues.. jeez.. I fought for my emotions.. fought for them.. I remembered.. I shared about what happened in meetings.. Alanon meetings.. I wrote down my life in five year increments.. I grieved over what happened.. I journaled.. I went for ‘dates’ with myself.. back to the place where I got hurt.. Another quote.. This is the one that got me to finally finally get into myself.. as I know I had abandoned myself.. finally got it.. From.. Pictures Of A Childhood.. page 23 Alice Miller

It is therefore understandable that most people, of

my generation are never able to free themselves of

the compulsion to defend and protect their parents.

Probably I, too, would have remained trapped by

this compulsion and, because it is so all-pervasive,

would not even have recognized it as such, had I not

come in contact with the child within me, who

appeared so late in my life, wanting to tell me her

secret.

She approached very hesitantly, speaking to me

in an inarticulate way, but she took me by the hand

and led me into territory I had been avoiding all

my life because it frightened me. Yet I had to go

there, I could not keep on turning my back, for

it was my territory, my very own. It was the place

I had attempted to forget so many years ago, the

same place where I had abandoned the child I once

was. There she had to stay, alone with her

knowledge, waiting until someone would come at

last to listen to her and believe her. Now I was

standing at an open door, ill prepared, filled with

all an adult's fear of the darkness and menace of

the past, but I could not bring myself to close

the door and leave the child alone again until my

death. Instead, I made a decision that was to

change my life profoundly: to let the child lead

me, to put my trust in this nearly autistic being

who had survived the isolation of decades. Alice Miller.. her books.. whew.. I have had this experience.. hence the rose.. And my ‘stuff’ started when I gave my son up and did not speak of him.. did not grieve the terrible loss.. and had to stomach the shame involved.. The judgment.. the condemnation.. There is a way out of this.. EZlove.. thanks for the compliment.. I feel I say/write too much at times.. Jackie

Janeytwo From the Alice Miller quote (post above) She approached very hesitantly, speaking to me

in an inarticulate way, but she took me by the hand

and led me into territory I had been avoiding all

my life because it frightened me. Yet I had to go

there, I could not keep on turning my back, for

it was my territory, my very own.. I love those words.. just love them.. And I did abandon me.. and when John Bradshaw quoted Alice Miller in one of his books.. I learned so much.. In the book I am quoting.. Alice Miller does a series of watercolors.. she wrote that after she did those very personal watercolors she started writing books.. and her books are amazing.. My point.. Bradshaw wrote about how we need to have conversations with ourselves.. our little kid in us.. There is even an illustration in one of his books.. an image.. One of my breakthroughs was with the part of me that was very angry that I had let him go.. and frightened.. I told me.. that I would not do that again.. (twelve steps and amends) I would not abandon me again.. I made a promise.. Jackie

Ladies Yesterday I emailed the woman who was spearheading this "reunion". I had been asked by my daughter to sign some papers so she could get the original birth certificate. So I did, of course, got it notarized sent it in. Well as you know we have no relationship so I have not heard from her in six weeks. So I decide to get the birth certif for my geneolgy records. I email asking "this woman" for a copy and this is what I get back Cindy, Most birth mothers I have worked with ask their birth son or daughter to make a copy of the birth certificate for the birth mother. I do not know how your relationship with your birth daughter is progressing, so do not know whether that may be an option for you. If it is not an option, I would suggest you talk with the Illinois Adoption Registry and Medical Information Exchange to see if you may receive a copy of the birth certificate. You may contact them at (217)557-5159. Please let me know if you have any questions. Becca Now I am hot!!! How dare her. I figure she won't help me any way and at 61 what do I have to lose so this is what I sent her: Becca This is just another example of the birth mothers having no rights!!! Again I am told that I have no right to my child or her info. Patted on the head and told to just go away, quietly, you will get over this. I have once again been used for another's gain. I asked for a copy of MY daughters birth certificate. I was a active participate in this event you know. When people wanted something from me, info, a signature etc I was treated soo nice but now I ask for something that I am at the very least entitled to and I get rebuffed. My life has been turned upside down by you and your agency and it stinks. How dare you be so insensitive and dismissive.("Most birth mothers I have worked with ask their birth son or daughter to make a copy of the birth certificate for the birth mother") Who the hell do you think you are? You are a blemish on our profession. I don't know how much experience you have, but God help us if you are ever actually able to practice. You don't have a clue. Shame on you. How dare you!!!!! You know better than I that we have no relationship. Unless of course should she ever want something that I have such as information, then I will be okay to contact. I want a copy of that document and I am not begging you, the frigging state of Illinois OR Denise for a **** thing. I suspect that you are the gate keeper and the very least you can do is get me a copy. Believe me I will never bother you again. Just get me that piece of paper. Okay I aM reading it now and I don't sound very stable, or like a lady, but what the H____. Truly what the H---- is going on!!!! I feel nuts!!!!! I know I tell my clients anger is good but this is crazy.... How do I get the doc????? Has anyone else gone through this????:grr: BTW I am okay with the anger as long as I don't stroke out......:love:

I need input....Sorry I knwo I am always asking but I need to ask again. Sunday she called.... I missed the call but you know I have put a moritorium on the emailing back and forth and have insisted on calls and she finally did. Heres the thing. While she invited me to call back, with caveats, she will be busy may not answer, I haven't called back. It wasn't long ago I would have been on the phone immediately but I can't bring myself to pick up the phone and call. What is wrong with me. I wonder to myself maybe I just really don't want contact. I am so good at avoiding. It is kinda like getting burned and then being afraid to get burned again. I feel like I have learned that fateful lesson, what it feels like to be toyed with by my daughter and I don't know how much more I can take. Maybe it is self preservation. I know I sound nuts and maybe I am, and I know I will call but I am just not ready. I am not playing games I just think I do not have the strength right now to deal with her, us. Am I nuts???? Janey honey I know what you are saying. That is where I was before I went on vacation. Sometimes I think we need to allow ourselves to take a break. Are you okay??:loveyou: Jackie thanks for the input... never too much. Ifeel like this is the only place I can really be myself. :cheer:

Anger.. Anger points the way.. I believe you have a right to your anger and I also believe it is healthy.. Anger is meant to be acted upon not acted out.. and I bet that woman at the agency depends on the rules.. I know when I called the agency I got rules.. You have had some real hard things happen to you.. things I understand.. and like you I went through the relinquishment in a fog.. If you stand back and really look at this maybe you will see you are asserting yourself.. Jackie