Proof of US Citizenship

If you find a way, there are a lot of people on the Guat forum who would love you forever! ;) I know nothing about adopting from Poland, but this is the norm for Guatemala. Our kids come home on an IR3 or IR4 visa. If they come home on an IR3, a COC is sent automatically but if you do a legal name change here (it can't be done in Guatemala) you still have to pay for an updated COC. If they come home on an IR4, we have to readopt (or whatever the process is in the particular state) and pay that crazy fee for a COC. I was lucky to do it before the last price increase, but I had to shell out for two new COC's at once, so I feel your pain. So, no help, but sympathy! Good luck!

First off, did your children come home on IR-3 or IR-4 visas? If your children came home on IR-3 visas, meaning that both you and your spouse traveled and saw your children before the final decree of adoption was signed overseas, then you don't have to pay a cent for certificates of citizenship, if your kids came home within the past few years. New USCIS rules, issued a few years ago, require the automatic issuance of certificates within about 90 days of homecoming, for IR-3s. If your children came home on IR-4 visas, however, they were not considered to have had a full and final adoption. Therefore, they could not become automatic citizens until you either readopted them or did a recognition in your home state. Now that you have done these things, they are automatic citizens, but you do need to apply for a certificate of citizenship and, yes, that costs money. A lot of parents make a major effort to travel and see their children before a final decree is issued, so that they do not have to go through all these steps. Just going to an orphanage and seeing the child for an hour before finalizing in court is sufficient. The only people who can't benefit from doing this are those whose kids come from countries where the adoption isn't finalized overseas; the children come to the U.S. under a decree of guardianship, for adoption here. Those families -- for example, people adopting from Korea -- cannot get IR-3s for their kids because they aren't adopted yet, when they come home. My understanding is that Poland issues final decrees of adoption. As a result, as long as you met your kids before the final decrees were signed, even if for only a few minutes, your kids should have come home on IR-3s, as long as both parents (or a person adopting as a single) traveled. Birth certificates showing a birth in an American hospital are proof of citizenship, because any child born in the U.S. is a citizen, even if his parents are legal or illegal aliens. However, birth certificates showing a birth overseas are NOT proof of citizenship. The reason is obvious. Some people come to the U.S. from overseas and become American citizens, while others come from overseas and do not become citizens. Both can get state birth certificates in their state of residence, as long as they are here legally. Thus, the certificates are useless for proving whether a specific foreign-born person is a U.S. citizen. He may or may not be one. U.S. passports prove U.S. citizenship for most purposes, since they are given only to U.S. citizens, except in a few, very rare, cases. I'd say that they are acceptable proof of citizenship 95% of the time. However, if your child ever requires a top secret security clearance, he/she may be expected to produce a certificate of citizenship instead. If he/she chooses to live abroad -- for example, because he/she gets a good job that requires it -- some countries also expect to see a certificate of citizenship instead of a passport. You are welcome to get U.S. passports, in lieu of certificates of citizenship, for your children. It's not that expensive, and the process is fairly quick. The passports will be good for getting your children's status changed at Social Security, and for most other purposes. And they have the advantage that your children can use them for travel. Contrary to what some people believe, you do NOT need to have a certificate of citizenship to get a U.S. passport for an internationally adopted child. The biggest DISADVANTAGE to getting passports instead of certificates, is that they expire every five years, for young children, and every ten years for older kids and adults. You must renew them and pay a fee each time. In the long run, they are more expensive than certificates. But if you are short on cash NOW, they can be of benefit. The only other disadvantage to getting passports instead of certificates, at this point, is that IF you decide to get certificates later, you may find it harder to put your hands on all the paperwork you need to prove that your kids are citizens. Somehow, with the passage of years, pieces of paper have a way of getting lost or destroyed. Also, the USCIS sometimes mislays files, and it could have a harder time verifying your children's claims to citizenship ten years from now than it would now. I know that the certificates seem expensive, after all the other fees you have paid. But they really are priceless. They are the ONLY documents that prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to anyone in the world, that your children are U.S. citizens. And U.S. citizenship is very precious. Sharon

But if you change the child's name once in the US you still have to pay to get a new COC in the child's new name. Money well spent in my opinion, but a lot of money none the less. :)

Our children came home on IR-3 Visas, so we did not have to pay any extra for the certificates, and they did arrive w/in 90 days of landing in the States and handing over our paperwork. I asked the immigration clerk at the airport about the CoC, and he said they weren't really even necessary. He said children derive their citizenship from their mother, so since I am an American citizen, my children would also be citizens. I cannot attest to the truth of this statement, nor how it would work in future years for a child to prove U.S. citizenship. sak9645: Once you get a passport for a child, even if that expires, wouldn't that still be proof of citizenship?

We received naturalization papers for the boys - and we of course have their passports stamped. But remember - we changed their first names when we readopted. So - NONE of the documents we have proving their citizenship are now correct. Or can we use a combination of naturalization papers and new birth certificates? AAAHHHHHH!

Lastpagie - What do you mean by Naturalization papers? COC? Green Card? Other? Sorry I don't know anything about the Polish adoption process! LisArno - That USCIS officer is full of it. Their citizenship is determined by their visa type (IR3 or IR4) not your citizenship. If your child had come home on an IR4, they would have been a legal resident, not a citizen regardless of you being a US citizen. Like yours, my children came home on IR3 visas and we did receive their COC's automatically, but after we completed their legal name changes we did apply for and get (at a cost) new COC's in their new legal names. A COC is the only true proof of citizenship. They may never need it, but for things like joining the military, government jobs that require security clearance, some college scholarships, things like that, it may be necessary and if they want to adopt internationally one day they will need it to prove their citizenship. So far the only thing we have needed it for is for the Social Security Adminstration (it is the only proof of citizenship they will accept) but my kids are only 4 and 5. A passport can show citizenship, but it expires and is issued by the State Department, not USCIS/Homeland Security. Personally I feel better having the corrected COC even if they are never in a position to need it. I feel that especially in this post-9/11 society and continuously increasing US security measures, I want my children's full and correct legal names on file with USCIS as citizens and want that correct certificate to prove it without a shadow of a doubt. Off my soapbox now! :)

LisArno: The clerk in the airport was wrong about your child being a citizen because you, as mother by adoption, are a citizen. Internationally adopted children do not become Americans just because you adopt them and are their parents. Those children who come home on IR-3 visas become citizens upon entering the U.S. because of a law passed in 2000 -- the Child Citizenship Act -- that grants citizenship to adopted children with a full and final adoption overseas, as soon as they enter the U.S. Full and final adoption, as defined by the USCIS, means that the children were seen by BOTH spouses (or by a person adopting as a single) BEFORE a final decree of adoption was issued by the foreign country. Those children who come home on IR-4 visas are NOT considered to have had a full and final adoption. In some cases, these are children who were seen by one spouse and not by the other, before the adoption decree was issued overseas. In some cases, these are children who were not seen by either spouse before the adoption decree was signed overseas. And in still other cases, they are children who came home from the foreign country under a decree of guardianship, for adoption in the U.S. (the Korea model). The Child Citizenship Act applies to those children coming home on an IR-4 visa only AFTER their parents have adopted, readopted, or done a recognition of their adoption in their home state. Kids coming home under a decree of guardianship need to be adopted in the parents' state of residence. Readoption and recognition apply to kids who have a foreign adoption decree; some states allow use of either process, while others allow only readoption or only recognition. The clerk was technically correct in saying that a child can be a U.S. citizen without a piece of paper saying so. The IR-3 child who comes into the country becomes a citizen as soon as he/she passes through Immigration, even if he/she doesn't receive a certificate in the mail for a couple of months. However, having proof of citizenship IS important, and it should be obtained. A current U.S. passport is proof of citizenship for most, but not all, purposes. An expired U.S. passport can be used for some things, such as verifying status for employment purposes, but it is acceptable in fewer circumstances than a current one. The only document valid in 100% of circumstances is the COC.

LastPaige: Why the devil did you change only your children's FIRST names when you readopted? Most people change the entire name. In fact, changing the last name is far more important in making the family connection to you. Check your readoption decree. I cannot believe that your attorney asked for only the first name to be changed. Most attorneys petition the judge to include language such as: "The child, formerly known as Vladimir Ilyich Petrovsky, will now be known as Ethan Vladimir Johnson." Also, your child's state certificate of foreign birth could not be issued with your surname on it if it had not appeared anywhere on the foreign paperwork and had not been changed by readoption or some other legal process. If you have a birth certificate for your child that shows your last name, then either it appeared on the child's foreign paperwork, or the readoption decree changed both the first and last names. Regardless, it is imperative that you obtain a document with your child's full American name, which proves citizenship. If your child's COC arrived with only the foreign name on it, or if you still need to apply for a certificate because your child came home on an IR-4 visa, getting a certificate in the American name is the best choice. However, if money is tight right now, because you are still paying off adoption expenses, consider obtaining a U.S. passport in your child's American name and then waiting until you have a little more cash to get the certificate. A good time to order the certificate, if you have a passport for your child, would be four years from now, before the passport expires and you have to pay to renew it. Sharon

DPline: A "certificate of citizenship" (COC) is a document given to a foreign born person who has gained the right to become a U.S. citizen. Internationally adopted children who come home on IR-3 visas become automatic citizens the minute they enter the U.S., and a COC is issued automatically. Internationally adopted children who come home on IR-4 visas become automatic citizens only after their parents have gone through a process of adopting, readopting, or doing a "recognition" in their home state. The parents have to apply for a COC for them after the adoption, readoption, or recognition. "Naturalization papers" are documents related to making someone a U.S. citizen. Technically, internationally adopted children aren't "naturalized"; they become citizens automatically because of the Child Citizenship Act. However, the term, "naturalization papers", is still used to describe a child's COC by some people. "Green card" is the casual term for a document correctly known as a "permanent resident card". It is actually a silly name, because most green cards today are not green; my daughter's was pink. A green card is a card issued to people admitted to the U.S. as permanent resident aliens. It gives them the right to live in this country and, usually, to work here. A person who has a green card is not a U.S. citizen, though he/she may apply to become one at some point. Children who enter the U.S. on IR-3 visas should not receive a green card, because they become citizens automatically as soon as they come through Immigration at the airport. Once in a while, they do receive a green card, through USCIS error, but such erroneously issued cards should not be used. They are invalid, because the children are citizens, and no longer aliens. A certificate of citizenship will be issued automatically, and a U.S. passport must be obtained for travel outside the country. Children who come home on IR-4 visas SHOULD receive green cards, since they remain permanent resident aliens until their parents adopt/readopt or do a recognition of the foreign adoption in their home state. If your IR-4 child does not receive one in the mail soon after homecoming, you should notify the USCIS, especially if you want to travel outside the U.S. with your child before you adopt/readopt/do a recognition in your state. If the parents of an IR-4 child want to travel outside the U.S. with him/her before completing the state adoption, readoption, or recognition, the child will have to travel on his/her foreign passport and use the green card to return to the U.S. afterwards. Once the IR-4 child goes through the state adoption, readoption, or recognition process, he/she becomes an automatic citizen, and the green card becomes invalid. The child will need a U.S. passport for travel outside the country, and the parents may choose to obtain a certificate of citizenship for him/her. Sharon

Thanks Sharon. :) I am aware of all of that. I was just wondering what she was referring to when she was saying naturalization papers. Not knowing anything about the Polish adoption process, I didn't know if children came home on IR3's, IR4's, either, or a decree of guardianship. (Though I was pretty sure that was only India and Korea.) It was just my way of asking what she had in hand as I know from the Guat forum that many terms get used interchangably and incorrectly. Often because of incorrect information given out by agencies and USCIS. So much of her situation depends on her children's visa types and whether their last names were changed in country, here, or not at all. Lots of good info. in your post for all international forums!

lastpaige -- the boys should have come in on an IR-3 visa as I believe you filed the same paperwork with the agency with both used. Our girls received their letters of citizenship about 6-8 weeks after arriving home. I would suspect the certificate of citizenship in combination with the re-adoption court decree with the documented name change should serve as proof of citizenship.

MS - Thank you - great idea. Duh - can't believe I hadn't thought of that. "Naturalization Papers" - sorry, that's the only thing I've known them by. Yes, they are Certs of Citizenship. Don't get me started on building family connectedness. We met the boys with Polish first and last names. They now have brand new Polish first, middle, and last names.