I read this on another forum and wondering if anyone knows more about it...
The Duggars are followers of Bill Gothard (per their own web site, via the links to the Advanced Training Institute and Institute in Basic Life Principles) who is a major proponent of quiverfull. He is also the gem who came up with the idea that adoption is a no-no because children inhereit the sins of the parents ([url=http://www.pfo.org/evol-fad.htm]Dangerous Leanings of Bill Gothards Teachings[/url]) among other things.
Family Non Planning/Quiverfull a la Gothard, which the Duggars I guess subscribe to, is against adoption. Quiverfull as a movement is not. I think it is important distinction. The QF movement is about answering the spiritual call to grow your family.
Maybe in some areas...but I've found a lot of support and encouragement from co-workers and family with my decision to adopt as a single person without fertility issues. There are people that adoption comes to mind first :arrow:
Then again I've always done things in life a little different and outside of the box :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: so maybe I'm a little :arrow:
SAVeronika
I'm not sure what your question is? Most people who are QF are not anti-adoption, but like most people I'm sure anyone can be mislead into believing nonsense like that, ie. Bill Gothard's teachings. I think the reason many people who are QF end up with large families of Biological children is because a lot of people in general (Christian and non-Chrisitan alike) will rarely consider adoption as a means to build a family if they're not forced to by infertility or some other reason. I've found that the people who choose to adopt regardless of fertility status is very rare and often treated as a bit :arrow: by other people who don't understand the desire to adopt.
DannieAS
Maybe in some areas...but I've found a lot of support and encouragement from co-workers and family with my decision to adopt as a single person without fertility issues. There are people that adoption comes to mind first :arrow:
Then again I've always done things in life a little different and outside of the box :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: so maybe I'm a little :arrow:
I know there are people who choose to adopt instead of having Biological children or in addition to Biological children. We have Biological children and are treated as completely crazy for wanting to adopt, even by our social workers. Nobody understands WHY, like there should be lighting bolt coming down from heaven or something for our decision to make sense. :flower:
Well, you sparked my interest, so I googled the guy. Because I like primary sources better than secondary sources, I looked at his own website first. [url=http://billgothard.com/bill/teaching/authority/]Bill Gothard | Protection Under Authority[/url] Poked around a bit. Didn't mind his "charactor qualities" much. Agreed with most of them, but I had some problem with the antonyms. Didn't find much more on the website that I agreed with, and didn't find anything about adoption, but I certainly didn't look at the whole site.
Then googled "quiverfull" and good old wikipedia has a piece right on top. Wikipedia is a great resource, but it is written by whoever wants to write for it, and often it is not accurate. But this is what it says about adoption:
Adherents view [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrenness"]barrenness[/URL], referred to as an "empty quiver" by adherents, as something to be accepted from God if that is His choice, while also making it a matter of prayer in the belief that God may wish to miraculously intervene. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infertility"]Infertility treatments[/URL] are seen as a usurpation of God's providence and accordingly rejected. Adoption is viewed as a positive option in which couples also rely on God's providence to send children. Biblical references to God's love for the orphan and to the belief that persons are saved through adoption into God's family are often noted.
My problem with the teachings of Bill Gothard, and to an extent, my problems with the Duggard family, is the decision to not allow contact with anyone whose views challenge your own. And this is something I've thought a lot about over the past few days.
As a child growing up in a politically active family, I remember being in 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade, and sitting in silence listening to everything President Nixon said. (Yeah, I'm old). My parents would then dissect his words, and the meanings behind those words. I was taught to think critically. To listen to everything. To draw on evidence, and to form an opinion based on evidence. And to be willing to modify my opinions when new evidence appeared. In other words, I was encouraged to listen to and learn from those whose world views were very different from the world views of my parents. To listen critically.
Children growing in in family's like the Duggards are never exposed to anything outside of their own belief systems. I am guessing that they will be among the children forbidden from hearing President Obama's address to school children next Tuesday. They will be limited to secondary sources, or someone else's interpretation of events. I think that is very sad.
[URL="http://billgothard.com/bill/teaching/authority/"][/URL]
DannieAS
Maybe in some areas...but I've found a lot of support and encouragement from co-workers and family with my decision to adopt as a single person without fertility issues...
Your right, there are single mothers who choose adoption as their first choice. However, even in the "Choice Mom" community, about 70-80% choose sperm donation rather than adoption. Also, even in the LGBT community the vast majority of us (especially lesbians) don't choose adoption as our first choice - we turn to donor sperm or surrogacy arrangements. So SAVeronika does have a point, for most parents (especially those adopting domestically) adoption is generally a second choice (but not second best).
sugarandspice697
However, even in the "Choice Mom" community, about 70-80% choose sperm donation rather than adoption.
As a single woman hoping to adopt, I find that very interesting. Would you mind telling me the source of the information.
vernellinnj
As a single woman hoping to adopt, I find that very interesting. Would you mind telling me the source of the information.
Its right on the Single Mother's By Choice website - [url=http://www.singlemothersbychoice.com/faq.html]Single Mothers By Choice -- FAQ[/url] . Here is a quote from them about the stats on their single moms.
Who are the members of SMC?
The average age of our members is 35, and nearly all have completed college or beyond. Almost half of our members are "thinkers" (as we call those women who have not yet decided whether or not they want to become single mothers) and the rest are trying to adopt or conceive, or are already mothers. About 52 percent of the mothers conceived a child by donor insemination, and approximately 25 percent have adopted. About 20 percent have become pregnant with a "known donor" or sex partner, although they are raising their child alone. We are a diverse group of women, including teachers, lawyers, doctors, bankers, nurses, business owners, and more. We are of all races, religions, ethnic groups, and lifestyles, from all over the United States and abroad. The main thing that we have in common is our belief that a woman can successfully raise a child on her own. Feel free to take a look at our pictures page for photos of some of our members and their children.
sugarandspice697
Its right on the Single Mother's By Choice website - [URL="http://www.singlemothersbychoice.com/faq.html"]Single Mothers By Choice -- FAQ[/URL] . Here is a quote from them about the stats on their single moms.
Thanks for responding!
sugarandspice697
Your right, there are single mothers who choose adoption as their first choice. However, even in the "Choice Mom" community, about 70-80% choose sperm donation rather than adoption. Also, even in the LGBT community the vast majority of us (especially lesbians) don't choose adoption as our first choice - we turn to donor sperm or surrogacy arrangements. So SAVeronika does have a point, for most parents (especially those adopting domestically) adoption is generally a second choice (but not second best).
No, no, definately not thinking that people who choose adoption after attempting other methods think it's second best:flower:
That's true. I actually thought about sperm donation a few years back and went back and forth, but decided that I've always been comfortable and positive about adoption so that was my thought process....
enjoyed reading the link.
Quesita
As a child growing up in a politically active family, I remember being in 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade, and sitting in silence listening to everything President Nixon said. (Yeah, I'm old). My parents would then dissect his words, and the meanings behind those words. I was taught to think critically. To listen to everything. To draw on evidence, and to form an opinion based on evidence. And to be willing to modify my opinions when new evidence appeared. In other words, I was encouraged to listen to and learn from those whose world views were very different from the world views of my parents. To listen critically.
Love the way you describe critical thinking...one of the most important things you can teach your children. Sounds like your parents were similar to my parents...
Kind regards,
Dickons
I just recently watched an episode of the Duggars and they were in El Salvador working in orphanages for 2 weeks and it's my understanding they do this every year. The dad said, He could see some of his children adopting some day.
So I don't think the family is anti-adoption. It even showed the older girls crying having to leave those precious children.
As a single mom by choice with no known fertility issues, adoption was my first choice. Even if I'd married prior to making the decision to become a mom I had plans to lobby hard for adoption. I have absolutely no desire to become pregnant... ever.
I hadn't ever heard of the SMC website and took a glance. From what I gather those stats are based on their paid membership roster. I can't imagine those numbers accurately reflect the general pop of single mothers by choice, just simply the stats of folks who found their website and agreed to pay an annual fee.
Based on a study of 1 (myself) I know of 2 gay women (not partners) that are considering both adoption and sperm donation. Not sure what they've decided on... I was only able to give them info on single parent adoption.
I know of 3 single heterosexual women who choose adoption first and I've been approach by 1 heterosexual woman seeking more info on single parent adoption and sperm donation never came up.
I had one heterosexual female co-worker approach me on single parent adoption and sperm donation did come up.
Those are my stats.
I am a single woman and to me whether the child is biological or adopted doesn't matter one bit. I chose artificial insemination as my first choice, not because I desired a biological child, but because it seemed like the quickest, easiest, and cheapest way to become a mother.
After 6 failed insemination attempts, I have switched my focus to adoption. My doctor says I'm not infertile, and given time I can conceive (the odds of conceiving through donar insemination are MUCH less per cycle than intercourse), but I got tired of playing that monthly game.
I am now trying to adopt through fostercare. But adoption is tough! Even tougher for a single person. Domestic and international adoption is so expensive. Plus, a single person has way less chance of being selected by a perspective birth mom. Fostercare isn't expensive, but the potential for heartbreak through reunification is high and there are more challenges involved in parenting an abused/neglected/drug-exposed child. Even through fostercare, I've been told to expect a long wait because I am single and desire a young child. I'm considering trying artificial insemination again while I wait for placement and just see which way gets me a child first.
So I wonder, how many families, both single and married, don't choose adoption first simply because it is so difficult and expensive? I guess I don't see anyway around it being difficult, but I do question why the fees for domestic adoption have to be so high.
mombyfaith
I just recently watched an episode of the Duggars and they were in El Salvador working in orphanages for 2 weeks and it's my understanding they do this every year. The dad said, He could see some of his children adopting some day.
So I don't think the family is anti-adoption. It even showed the older girls crying having to leave those precious children.
I guess maybe this is part of my question, why wait for one of your children to do it (adopt) when you are Quiverfull? Wouldn't standing in the middle of an orphanage with children waiting for families sort of be like God asking you to add more to your family? I could see if you weren' financially able, or didn't want more kids, but they have more kids every other year.
After hearing that possbily Gothards teaching were anti-adoption (which they may not be), I was just trying to find out if it was part of their religion that they weren't allowed to.
isitnaptime
Wouldn't standing in the middle of an orphanage with children waiting for families sort of be like God asking you to add more to your family? I could see if you weren' financially able, or didn't want more kids, but they have more kids every other year.
I don't think it's that easy. Adoption is not for everyone. Years ago I knew a little girl who was taken into foster care and my dh and I expressed interest in taking her and her sister in. This was before we even considered having kids (Biological or adopted), we were just not at that point yet. We cared for this child and wanted to make sure she was safe. As it turns out, she was already placed by the time we enquired. During our enquiry process, a guy who worked with me told me that once I had my "own" kids I would understand that I could NEVER love an adopted child like a Biological child. After my son was born, my neighbor told me the same thing when I mentioned that we wanted to adopt. She said she could never love another child (her example was my son) like she loved her son and she was sure I felt the same. They were both wrong about me, but I'm sure that adoption won't be the right thing for them and for many other people.
SAVeronika
\ a guy who worked with me told me that once I had my "own" kids I would understand that I could NEVER love an adopted child like a Biological child. After my son was born, my neighbor told me the same thing when I mentioned that we wanted to adopt. She said she could never love another child (her example was my son) like she loved her son and she was sure I felt the same.
I've heard this too, but never from someone who actually adopted. :arrow: