What exactly constitutes neglect?

IMHO, keeping your child clean is a very basic necessity. If a child smells so badly they gag other people, this is not normal. Not only has the child not been bathed in a LONG time, the home environment must also be unsanitary to the point that its odor is transferring to the child. Bathing is not only a common hygiene issue, lack of frequent bathing is a health issue. YES this is neglect.

At what age? When we got our foster son, he would NOT bathe. If I forced him to get in the shower he'd stand there and let water run over his body. He would not use soap or shampoo. He would deliberately wear filthy clothes, and hid them so I could not wash them. If I took away privileges, he raged and hurt himself. Yes, he stank - and it took several months before we could gradually resolve it. If cleanliness is such basic care, what would you do in that case? Short of physically washing him myself, which would have had my foster parent license removed pretty quick, I'm guessing ;-)

The child I am concerned about wets the bed still, I think, although she didn't when she slept over at our house. She is ten years old. I don't think she is one who would resist bathing because she was thrilled when I timidly offered to wash her blanket for her and was so happy that it smelled good when it was clean. I think she tries...My daughter tried to discreetly mention to her that she smelled "like the blanket" at school and although it was an incredibly awkward conversation, the girl is doing better, but if I get too close to her, she still smells like stale urine. It isn't always the overpowering, gagging smell that her blanket had that first night but I noticed it again today when she was over.

It's so hard to judge - in a home with poor hygiene a child might not even know that they aren't bathing often enough, etc. However, poor hygiene CAN be a sign that there are other things going on as well. At the extreme end, I had a high school age student who deliberately peed himself, and we think it is because he'd been sexually abused so frequently that it was a defense mechanism to keep people away (he was living in a group home when I taught him). if you just have a bad gut feeling about it, I think you are justified in giving a call. For the most part, I have faith in the sytem - I know we've all heard stories of parents losing their children for no good reason, but I think that is incredibly rare. I think the opposite is much more likely - a child languishing in neglect for years while observers try to determine if there is enough to report!ps - edited to add that my 11 year old bio daughter is still a bedwetter - and she gets herself up in the middle of the night to change and shower when it happens. But that is probably because I taught her to do that! Maybe no one has bothered with this child - parents with a poor sense of smell might not even notice?

I don't think this is what we are talking about. We are talking about "report or not report" a child that smells so badly at school that it gags the teacher. The person asking the question doesn't have this type of background information to make the decision to report/not report. That's CPS' job to find out why and decide if this is neglect or not. In the case of your FS, of course it's not. He had issues that precluded him from bathing. Totally different story. And yes, I believe bathing a child IS basic care. At what age? From birth until they are old enough not to be "bathed" any longer, and at that point the child has to be prompted to bathe. I tell my girls every night, "Ok, it's time for shower, M you go first, then A, it's your turn" They are 10 and 9. My 14 y/o does not need prompting. She takes care of her own hygiene and does an outstanding job. If she did not, however, she would be prompted as well. I just think it's my job as their mother to insure they learn to care for themselves properly. As for the "report/not report" I still stand firm that reporting is necessary. Let CPS determine WHY this child's hygiene is so bad. Is it neglect or something else? That's not up to us to decide.

As a former CW, I say report it and if you keep having concerns keep reporting it. Sometimes DCS can't do anything not because the problem doesn't exist but because at the moment they show up at the house things are okay. Plus things have to be really really bad to remove kids for smelling like urine-- the home has to be unsafe and unsanitary and just smilling like urine won't be enough but it doesn't mean it is a good environment for the child either.

It might be that they are having finance problems at home and the water is shut off or can't afford soaps/shampoos, etc as those things can not be purchased with food stamps. By reporting it, help might be brought in to find resources to help the family if finances are the problem. If it is something else, then that can be checked into also. I would report it so that I could have the feeling that I did what I should have and then keep observing the child to see if things get better or not or if you need to report again.

You may want to look into the scope of your obligation as a mandated reporter. I'm not sure about the state you are in, but in Mass, California several other states, you are mandated to report allegations of abuse and neglect which you become aware of "through the scope of your employment". So, for example, If you are a nurse working for a pediatrician's office, you are mandated to report incidents you become aware of while at work, but you are not required to report an allegation of abuse if you observe it while you are shopping in the grocery store. If you are a teacher, you are mandated to report allegations which you become aware of at the school and if you encounter your students outside of school, but not a child you observe being abused at a park during your off hours. .I am a foster parent, so I am obligated to report any allegation of abuse or neglect of children placed in my home, but I am not required to report on my neighbors. I'm not trying to discourage you from filing, whether or not you are obligated to make a report, you still can. Anyone can make a report. And you may still choose to do so. And that may be a reasonable choice given the circumstances. This is just a common misunderstanding of mandated reporting rules. Tough situation. Good luck.

Remember that sometimes nothing can be done until there is enough of a paper trail to establish a pattern of this type of behavior. So every report that is made is logged into the computer and remains in the file forever. Plus keep in mind that sometimes the smell of urine is not because the child is not bathing but because of cats in the home who spray and pee on the clothes. This smell is almost impossible to get out even with multiple washing especially when the pets continue to do it. I have had to give clothes back to cw that had this smell when the clothes came with the child, with my allergies I can't stand the smell. This smell used to drive me crazy in my former profession when I had to go into homes.

Here is another thought...My cousin is a horrible house keeper, her house stinks to the high heavens. However she and her daughter (age 17) has never smelled themselves...actually they always smell clean and perfumed up... I would think that if the home is so bad that the kid even smells bad that she is probably living in horrible conditions.

I am also hesitant, mainly because I had a false accusation made against me. Though it was found to be unfounded the stress it put our whole family under was intense. When I taught we did have a child that smelled, we learned it was that the child wet the bed and the family did not have a washer and dryer. They could not afford to wash all the bedding each day. They also were having issues affording soap for daily baths and of course the water bill. The father had lost his job and they were doing the best they could. They were prioritizing making sure the children had food and medication for the child with siezures. They had gotten so used to the smell that they didn't realize how bad it was. Someone anonymously donated pull ups, shampoo, soap, laundry soap (regulare and some made for washing things out in the sink) Within a week the child smelled so much better. As teachers we made a point of getting to know the family a little better before making a call that would have added more stress to an already stressful situation. Several months later another student's family was getting a new HE washer and dryer and wanted to get rid of thier old one, we took it and gave it to that family who was thrilled. After the dad got a new job, this family was always noticing needs of others around them and helping out, mainly because someone had helped them when they needed it.

OP I didn't read through all of the respones, except fot the last few. So excuse me if I repeat something already said. I peeked at your profile. We are in the same State, and "scope of employment" doesn't apply. In our State ANY instance of suspected abuse or neglect must be reported by a foster parent. I am sensitive to the those who have been falsely acused, but a lot of children in this country slip through the cracks because nobody wanted to make waves and call CPS. Smelling of urine could mean that the child is not being bathed. Habitually late to school could mean there is no adult supervision. The family may be leaving the child unattended because of financial reasons, and there may be services available through our wonderful State that can help them. Best wishes with your decision!

Who is a mandated reporter?Massachusetts law defines the following professionals asmandated reporters: Physicians, medical interns, hospital personnel engaged in theexamination, care or treatment of persons, medical examiners;Օ Emergency medical technicians, dentists, nurses, chiropractors,podiatrists, optometrists, osteopaths; Public or private school teachers, educational administrators,guidance or family counselors;Օ Child Care licensors, such as staff from the Department of EarlyEducation and Care; Early education, preschool, child care or afterschool program staff,including any person paid to care for, or work with, a child in anypublic or private facility, home or program funded or licensed by

the Commonwealth, which provides child care or residential services.This includes child care resource and referral agencies, as well asvoucher management agencies, family child care and child carefood programs;Օ Social workers, foster parents, probation officers, clerks magistrateof the district courts, and parole officers; Firefighters or police officers;Օ School attendance officers, allied mental health and licensedhuman services professionals; Psychiatrists, psychologists and clinical social workers, drug andalcoholism counselors; andՕ Clergy members, including ordained or licensed leaders of anychurch or religious body, persons performing official duties onbehalf of a church or religious body, or religious body to superFoster parents are licensed--they are professionals. You might not even be in MA, but just in case...

In CA as well...foster parents are on the list.

I was just in a weird situation where I felt the need to report an incident that I had heard about second and third hand. I thought that being that far removed from the situation, it was basically a rumor and I thought it might be inappropriate to report it, however, the incident was so serious I felt like I needed to do something. I ended up being able to go with one of the people involved to her caseworkers office and ensured that DCF was informed but it did make me question under what circumstances you should report something. Is it appropriate to report something you hear second or third hand as long as you are clear in your report that you didn't see the incident yourself?