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I have been very interested in the "What is he?" thread, so I thought I would ask you all this. First I am cc and so is my dh. We have 3 bio kids and an ason who is cc. We also have a adaughter, and here is where I'm stumped. Our daughter was a safe haven baby. her bmom (cc) dropped her off at a hospital. She delivered her at home and told the staff that the bdad is AA. When we brought dd to the peds for the first time the Dr asked me, "Are you sure she is BR?" Well no. I really can't "prove" it. She does not look BR. She is VERY light. She has beautiful dark curls. (The only description I have of bmom reports her also to have dark curls.) I consider her br as that is what I was told. But I guess we are further in doubt because of the experience we had with our son, where the reported bdad was excluded on DNA testing. I have no reason to doubt the bmom, but do I raise a child as BR ,doing my best as a cc woman to try and find her cultural experiences and AA role models when in fact she may not be BR at all? Obviously, you all can't tell me "What she is?" but what would you do? It would be very easy to fall in to treating this child cc, as we all are and she looks so cc but that would be very wrong if she is BR. HELP!!!!
Thanks so much for any input!!!!
Mom to 5 in PA
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A lot of adult adoptees do testing. I look at the DNA forums from time to time and see adoptees posting. It's kind of sad that have to wait till they are adults to find out who they are. They are told they are one thing growing up and find out it's something totally different. Then there are those folks who don't know anything because the agency or their adoptive parents couldn't or wouldn't share the information.
The only advice I have for adults is go into it with an open mind and be prepared for whatever comes out of it.
I did testing on my DD to figure out her background because her father is unknown. I can't tell her anything about her father...not even his race but I can tell her what her racial background is.
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We do the same. We also look at specific subjects and see how other cultures handled them.
nickchris
Very true, hopefully each race/ethnic group will be able to focus on their history being rendered as an important part in history. I do know in my home we focus quite a bit on Black history. Based on your example above, from the majority view it is not a whole truth, can be slanted, or down right not true. Our focus (we are a Black family) is to also build their positive self perception of being Black, and dispel that all is not negative about AA/Blacks. However, we but do discuss other religions, other cultures; current news and in history.
Race is not a big issue for us and we pretty much know what our children are. However, I have read on the adoptee boards how excited they get when they get info as adults and find out thier backgrounds. They talk about how it has always bothered them not to know. Because of that reason, I would do the testing, just to give her some knowledge and so she won't wonder so much. You could tell her that the tests may have flaws, but it gives her something to go on and if she wants to redo the test when she is an adult and things are different she can. Just to make it kind of fun, you might do it for the whole family (though I know cost is an issue) I knew a lady who did this and then put all the different parts of the world that made up her family on a chart for the wall. Just as a fun thing I think it said our family is, this, this this and this and then she added things like, crazy, musical, artistic, athletic, silly, funny, loving, etc. It's a running thing in thier family to add things to the list.
Yes, guess one never knows as its based on the kiddo, just helps to have the info for their future research. Since I have bio kids as well, have to walk that fine line, with the genetic link stuff. Yet not make a biggie out of her being from a different genetic pool, since that can also make a kid feel different. To me its best to just get the info early and have it available for deeper probing later on. Since DD is also Black, its ties into what we are checking out right now.. tribal (African) and admixture links. I do believe I read somewhere where each kid gets a different "mix" of DNA from their parents, so my boys (bio) can have a different composite from dh and I. I have to find that info.To tie in the OP trend. Respecting that the "adopted" child is a part of the family, yet has their own story is key. Her racial mixture, who she is, is/will be important to her. It should be just as important to her family. To me, that is where the family aspect ties in. Must be a part of our ties to Africa, and due to slavery. In Black families (many that I knew. my own) for a long time we had people who were not blood per say, but were family period. Right now we have to get past the whose tummy we grew in... :-O
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Thanks everyone. I think we will go ahead with the genetic testing. Our daughter is 2 so we have some time before questions start but I want to be able to provide her with all the answers I can. I think I may also do the testing for our cc son. Although he was not a safe haven, bmom just wasn't available to give info. Since, I myself am such a "mutt" I forget that his ethnic heritage may be very important to him.
Thank you!!!!!
Mom to 5 in PA
i might do testing someday for our youngest. mom is cc...she said dad was black, the hospital records say he was hispanic, and no one can find him to confirm. they can not even find his name or information in any data base confirming he is even a real person. my son looks cc...with blonde/red hair and blue eyes....but we have been told that means nothing. i'd like to know...not because i would discuss it with him everyday...but because it is his information to have...if he doesn't get to know WHO his dad was...he ought to at least know a little about him. everyone else in our house has information on their dad- including ethnicity...except this one. i know it will not change the way i raise him, or the way the world perceives him. but it will allow him to find himself on his road to self-identity. i raise 2 other children that are perceived as cc....but are really half mexican. it is important to them, even though no one else can tell. i feel like every piece of information they have about themselves is a treasure.
George Lopez has been doing DNA tests on some of his guests. It is a hoot. He had Mariah Carey announce his test results and she refused to do testing but did explain her background. It's kind of interesting hearing it directly from her.
Here's the company he used for testing.
[url=http://www.ancestrybydna.com/]Ancestry, Genealogy and Heritage DNA Testing - AncestrybyDNA™[/url]
Looks like DNA Diagnostic Center bought out the company I used for testing because they are now using their website name and trademark name of AncestrybyDNA. It's $295 per test. It was $240 when I tested a few years ago. I'm glad I looked this up because I didn't get DH's and DS's done before they went out of business. I did DD's because her father was unknown and mine was more of a control thing to see if the testing was accurate since I know my family background. Even thought I know my background I was still surprised by the percentages that I got. Charles Barkley is blacker than I am too. LOL!
Here are the results for some celebrities. Lopez ran an online poll of "Who is Blacker" between Barkley and Snoop. People were betting on Snoop.
[url=http://www.lopeztonight.com/dna_tests/index.php?iref=LT:Categories]DNA Tests | Lopez Tonight[/url]
Charles Barkley
East Asian 0%
Native American 14%
European 11%
Sub-Saharan African 75%
Snoop Dog
East Asian 0%
Native American 23%
European 6%
Sub-Saharan African 71%
George Lopez
55% European
32% Native American
9% East Asian
4% Sub-Saharan African
Jessica Alba
East Asian 0%
Native American 13%
European 87%
Sub-Saharan African 0%
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Test results are only as good as the sample populations. Certain groups are represented more and smaller minority or ethnic groups can get mis-identified.
I did a little digging and DNA Diagnostic Center did buy out DNA Print which owned AncestrybyDNA.
I may need to retest because at some point they changed the number of markers tested. I'm not sure if we got 71 or 176 markers tested. I'll give them a call.
I also curious as to whether they took the existing sample populatin from DNA Print or created an entirely new one.
Nick
Do you remember that information about phenotype and the 75% rule? It had something to do with scientists believing that if you are 75% of a particular race that controls or directs your phenotype. Phenotype typically controls your social racial identity.
Makes you wonder when you look at the average percentages by group on this link. The NA groups clearly don't meet the 75% rule. They are using more of a social racial identity. Same with South Asian Indian. They average 58.9% European and only 26.9% East Asian but they socially identify as Asian.
[url=http://www.ancestrybydna.com/abd-average-results.php]AncestrybyDNA ٢ Race, DNA, Ethnicity and other Ancestry Testing questions answered[/url]
The AncestrybyDNA test results give you a 95% confidence interval, which is a measure of the statistical strength of the test. The only way to achieve 100% accuracy in an ancestry test would be to go back in time and test each and every one of your ancestors. Since this is impossible, we rely on statistics to make a prediction of your most likely ancestry mix.
The scientists who developed the AncestrybyDNAٙ test have conducted extensive validation studies with various numbers of markers to create a test that was economically feasible as well as provides the most robust statistical data. The first version of the test used 71 markerstoday we test 176 markers to obtain a much higher confidence level while keeping costs to a minimum.
The test has been evaluated using a large number of people from a wide range of ancestral groups, and the estimates correspond well to what is known from anthropological and historical data. For example, Hispanics are known to have arisen as an ethnic group from the blending of colonial Europeans with Indigenous Americans, and the hundreds of Hispanics we have tested align with these two groups almost exclusively, as expected. As another example, though most Nigeriansג results indicate unmixed African BioGeographical Ancestry (BGA), African Americans show more of a mixture between this group and Europeans, which is also what would be expected from what we know about the admixture between Africans and Europeans in the United States.
I see what you are saying about the samples. Yet the NA identification criteria is so weird, not per blood %?[URL="http://www.ancestrybydna.com/abd-average-results.php"]AncestrybyDNA™ €“ *Race, DNA, Ethnicity and other Ancestry Testing questions answered[/URL]Excerpt from above link:includes individuals from US Government recognized tribes (Sioux, Cheyenne, Cherokee, Arapaho) as well as unrecognized tribes, without regard to “blood” percentage. ** includes individuals from US Government recognized tribes only (Sioux, Cheyenne, Cherokee, Arapaho), without regard to “blood” percentage
Sleeplvr
Test results are only as good as the sample populations. Certain groups are represented more and smaller minority or ethnic groups can get mis-identified. I did a little digging and DNA Diagnostic Center did buy out DNA Print which owned AncestrybyDNA. I may need to retest because at some point they changed the number of markers tested. I'm not sure if we got 71 or 176 markers tested. I'll give them a call. I also curious as to whether they took the existing sample populatin from DNA Print or created an entirely new one. NickDo you remember that information about phenotype and the 75% rule? It had something to do with scientists believing that if you are 75% of a particular race that controls or directs your phenotype. Phenotype typically controls your social racial identity.Makes you wonder when you look at the average percentages by group on this link. The NA groups clearly don't meet the 75% rule. They are using more of a social racial identity. Same with South Asian Indian. They average 58.9% European and only 26.9% East Asian but they socially identify as Asian.[URL="http://www.ancestrybydna.com/abd-average-results.php"]AncestrybyDNA™ ₢€“ *Race, DNA, Ethnicity and other Ancestry Testing questions answered[/URL]
NA identification is supposedly by blood quantum but it's not really blood quantum. They are going by lineage only. They make an assumption on who was full NA per the Dawes Rolls and then fraction you out from that.
With DNA testing they would have to boot a lot of folks out of the tribe for not meeting blood quantum. NA has become a social racial identity not a genetic one. I believe the blood quantum requirements are there so the tribes will die out. Eventually the gene pool will become stagnent if blood quantums are maintained.
The whole NA blood quantum thing irks me. My relatives lived on an indian land grant but couldn't use NA legally because they weren't on a reservation. Huh? They had to be NA to get the land in the first place. They're all hidden under mulatto or colored. I need to start some research on the land grants and see what I can find.
Here's another twist to my story. I'm signed up for matches for my maternal ancestry. I've now got matches in Mexico, Cuba and Spain. They are a 100% match so we have a common maternal ancestor. All this stuff does is provide more questions than answers.
I can see their lines becoming stagnant based on keeping a tie to a recognized tribe. Is there not a lot of kissing cousins after a while.? I think I came across the article regarding social constructs vs other form of identifying race, will Google again, as I was caught up in a project.Sleep your connection may be via the Spaniards and their subsequent admixture in The Americas.
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The inability or refusal to add to the gene pool will cause a line to die out. That's what happened to Habsburg Dynasty. NA's are caught in a trap... They can marry outside the tribe or stay in that limited gene pool to keep the blood quantum. Either way it's set up so the government eventually wins this game and collects their land. They shouldn't have kicked out the freedmen. Freedmen were exempt from blood quantum yet they were legally recognized by the federal government as tribal members and the tribes could have used that to get rid of that requirement for them.
That's so sad.
Sleeplvr
The inability or refusal to add to the gene pool will cause a line to die out. That's what happened to Habsburg Dynasty. NA's are caught in a trap... They can marry outside the tribe or stay in that limited gene pool to keep the blood quantum. Either way it's set up so the government eventually wins this game and collects their land. They shouldn't have kicked out the freedmen. Freedmen were exempt from blood quantum yet they were legally recognized by the federal government as tribal members and the tribes could have used that to get rid of that requirement for them.