Help me with ODD

ODD-like symptoms are somewhat common in adoptions, especially with older children (though children adopted as infants often display behaviors in teen years). These are tough situations for adoptive parents and no quick fix. I'm not sure I agree with taking away all control (sometimes these symptoms occur b/c the child feels no control). Certainly set schedules help, giving children a sense of the rhythm of your family life and what to expect. Try giving fewer choices or choice within fewer realms; she may be overwhelmed by choices. If emotionally delayed, patience is your best approach. Whatever you decide to do, both parents must be in complete agreement. Be together and be consistent.

ODD seems to be a catch-all. I had one diagnosed with it and he's healing fine. Were you the first placement? 17 months isn't along time. I agree with the last poster: patience. Your DD is still healing. I'm not condoning her behavior. Mine 4 have been punished for weeks at a time. It could be ODD but it could also be PTSD.

Is your therapist trained in attachment, foster-to-adopt, and traumatized children? If not, is there one nearby for 2nd opinion? Having the right therapist is crucial, there are many books and blogs detailing searches by parents to find a therapist who truly helped. Are you in the room with the child during therapy? That's the current recommendation for therapy where attachment is a need (which it would be with adoption, esp.with intense behaviors.) Has your therapist recommended "time-in"s vs "time-outs"? Timeouts can be re-traumatizing.With all due respect, sounds like RAD to me, or something on the attachment disordered spectrum. I think of stealing and lying as part of RAD. If it's as simple as ODD and "doing the opposite", theoretically, you could just tell her to do what you don't want her to do.Have you looked into Dyadic Developmental Therapy? (Daniel Hughes et al). His book, "Building the Bonds of Attachment: Awakening Love in Deeply Troubled Children" will give you insight into healing such a child. It was the first book I read where I thought, "Someone really understands what I'm living through." AFA the 1-2 year emotional delay, he suggests treating the child as though they're that age, not their chrono age. Deborah Gray's "Attaching in Adoption" has a pointed list of questions in the back for finding a good therapist. If she is gifted, that is its own kettle of fish. My stepson and long-term fson are gifted, there's a lot of it in my family. I don't think this set schedule every 30 minutes with cooperation required to move on would work with a gifted child. Gifted children, in very real ways, canNOT do things they don't like, and/or find boring. And are stubborn. They tend to be speedy, both in body and brain. For a gifted child, you want to sort of open up the world of their own creativity and talents, at the same time as addressing other issues. This connects them to joy and innocence... a life worth living. They need to have times when they're able to pursue their passions without much interference. My fson, for instance, just over 5, would watercolor for 2 hours at a time, kid you not. It was self-healing for him. As, keep an area set up with water colors, another with K'nex, have magnets, clay available. You will find out which things she finds engaging, then keep those permanently out -- could also be research, as, geology or Native Americans or.... Apologies if you're already doing this type stuff.Examples of motivating the gifted/somewhat ODD/any normal child to get to the car. "Bet you can't beat to the car!" This will work if you make sure the child wins... every time... for years! Go figure. More examples: "I'll bet you can't get your PJs on before I count to 10!" Again, child always wins, which means you (being upbeat, fun and sparkly, you're on their side), may start saying, "7 and a half, 8, 8 and a quarterrrr, 8 and a halfffff, 8 and 3 quarterrrrs..." to make sure they win. Teamwork, fun, conspiracy to win together. The counting gives the distractible mind something to focus on, calming. Toothbrushing: "We're going to play a game while toothbrushing tonight. OK, hold up the number of fingers I say while I brush your teeth. 3 on right hand! 1 on left! 2 on both! (etc.)" Homework: "I'll bet you can't get 5 of those problems done before the 3-minute timer goes off!" (or hour-glass type timer). Using toilet before taking trip: (Parent) "Please go..." "NO! I don't have to go!" (Parent: (calm) "Oh! enthusiastic "Why don't you go see if something comes out?" (works better with boys, the visual is enticing... :-)

As far as I know we are their first placement. However, we have been told that the kids were going to be taken and then they would move out of state to avoid that. It only happened that mom ended up going to jail and her boyfriend bailed on the kids. But from what we have been told they had a very hectic first few years. Our therapist works only with foster kids/adoptive kids. There is weekly therapy, which was trauma focused at first, and is now problem focused. They dont believe it is RAD due to how well attached she is to our family. Today we stole another child's fruit roll up at lunch to share with the rest of the table. She was sent home early and has 2 days of in school suspension. As this is about the 4th time of stealing from school in the last 2 months. Thank you so much for the book suggestions and the racing/betting type activities. We will try those. My husband and I try very hard to be on the same page, but the last few weeks have been very challenging as the stealing from anyone/everyone has been happening almost every 3 days. The only answer she will offer up is "because I wanted it".

It sounds to me that you are on the right track with a therapist that understands adoption. This can be a long process of ferreting out what is driving the behavior. I'm guessing you've shared some details with either teachers or a school psychologist. Schools have rules, of course, but a sensitive teacher or psychologist help in applying the rules in a helpful way.

Please read up more on RAD and see how you feel about it. You're the one who deals with her at home and knows her the best. Most children in the foster care system have RAD and the symptoms overlap with ADHD and ODD. The things you're being asked to do at home are similar to some treatment for RAD, but it needs to be done with some intense attachment therapy. We have a 6yr son who we've had for 2 1/2 yrs now. He’s been diagnosed with ADHD and RAD, but he fits an ODD child to a T! Life has been ROUGH! These poor kids have so much to work through and need so much help. Just make sure you check into all possibilities to make sure you can give her the help she needs. If you ever want to chat, I'm here. :) Here's a link, check it out and see what you think- [url=http://www.attachmentdisorder.net/]Attachment Disorder Site - providing hope and support.[/url]

You know I posted here on 3/1. I read you saying the therapist works only with this foster kids/adoptive kids. And I thought, that sounds good. But then when I'm reading at a.com, sometimes I think of your situation, and the fact that the concept of ODD played a prominent part. And that the therapist is saying "not RAD". If it's not RAD-driven or trauma-driven, where is the stealing coming from? I think I said that backwards, most of what I've learned expects stealing to be a part of "attachment-troubled" children. And this: "...giving her a set schedule for every 30 minutes of the day and only cooperation will allow her to go on to the next activity" That to me would be making one's home like a jail. It would be full of control battles and sadness for everyone. Just my reaction. I've read Deborah Gray, Daniel Hughes, Keck and Kupecky, Karyn Purvis, Kate Cairns (England), and I've never heard of that being recommended.I do get that damaged children fight for control. That they believe they must have it. I don't agree that making control the primary battleground is the way to resolve that. I think adults need more tricks in their book than that, if that makes sense, including infusing joy into everyday life in surprising ways. Theraplay includes that, as does Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy (DDP).[url=http://www.dyadicdevelopmentalpsychotherapy.org/]Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy Institute[/url][url]http://www.theraplay.org/[/url]Adding in the joy undermines the need for control, or subverts it, replaces it. For all I know, that's part of what's being suggested to you, and part of what you're trying to do. I also wonder if you're in the room with the therapist and the child? In DDP that's the case, for most of the visit, although the parent is given support for their parenting struggles separately at the beginning of each session. Where I live, several different agencies and I know the state of TN are providing *in-home* counseling services to parents and former foster children. That seems to be the new wave of work, and to be working very well. That is, supporting the parents, helping parents and child knit into a family, and supporting the parents to help the child heal. Hope some of this makes sense, and seems helpful.

I'm in the same boat right now, about to start Behavioral Therapy for our adoptive daughter (age 3). I guess I am really hoping we get an exact diagnosis from an expert but right now i am sort of "self-diagnosing" her and going between the same disorders from RAD to ODD to attachment issues to ADHD to bi-polar etc. I've been told that if a kid leans more toward the RAD side of things you want to give them a lot of choices so he feels in control. But, if a kid leans more toward ODD, you want to limit his choices and that makes him feel in control. Complete opposites! I was given this suggestion for an ODD child...maybe it will help you if this is in fact what your child has. Every half hour go to the "charts" which can be sticker charts or whatever but basically a behavior monitor. You are basically always giving the child a half an hour at a time to behave and accomplish certain behaviors like "play kindly" or "clean-up your toys". The child knows that there will be a trip to the charts very soon and when you get close you can remind him and say "in 5 minutes we are going to the charts" etc. This can really encourage a child to behave well because it's positive and it gives them very minimal requirements for short increments. Maybe that is what the person was sort of suggesting? Anyway, good luck. I am trying to learn everything I can. Rachel fosteradoptmommy.blogspot.com Adoptive mom to A :cheer: (age 3) Foster mom to J :clap: (age 3)

I have a son who is ODD, ADHD, PTSD, bipolar, EBD; however, his psychiatrist says he is NOT RAD. I asked him because people kept suggesting that he was. The Psych told me that he's not RAD because although Oppositional and anger, etc., he is also caring, loves our 3 dogs, is kind to babies, etc. RAD kids tend to have NO emotional attachments at all.

My nearly 5 year old was diagnosed last year with ODD and OCD, as well as being above average in intelligence (nearly 3 to 4 years ahead of her age) and lagging in emotional development (1 to 2 years). Control is the number one issue. She has been fully potty trained for a couple of years, but will intentionally wet herself when confronted after she has misbehaved. The key with her is not letting her have the control, but not making her feel as though she has no control. And it's a struggle. She is typically given two choices and she gets to make the decision, but not without consequences. It's also important to be very direct with her and not offer her "an out". I'm not sure how the lying and stealing really would lead to a preliminary diagnosis of ODD. Here's an excerpt I found from the AACAP: In children with Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), there is an ongoing pattern of uncooperative, defiant, and hostile behavior toward authority figures that seriously interferes with the youngster’s day to day functioning. Symptoms of ODD may include: •Frequent temper tantrums •Excessive arguing with adults •Often questioning rules •Active defiance and refusal to comply with adult requests and rules •Deliberate attempts to annoy or upset people •Blaming others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior •Often being touchy or easily annoyed by others •Frequent anger and resentment •Mean and hateful talking when upset •Spiteful attitude and revenge seeking Hopefully with the help of counselors and therapists, you will be able to get a diagnosis for your FD and help her manage her behaviors.

I was diagnosed ODD as a teen, what I actually think I had is a combination of insecure attachment patterns and undisagnosed learning disabilities which were overlooked specifically because I was gifted. Fear of failure = fear of rejection, so rather than be rejected because I couldn't complete a task I turned to behavioral outbursts to avoid the tasks. Personally, I wouldn't say that most children in foster care have RAD, I think it's actually a very small percentage who meet the diagnostic criteria. I would, however, say ALMOST all children adopted from foster care (and many adopted from other circumstances--I was 3 days old) have insecure attachment patterns. I still think I'm emotionally delayed well over 1-2 years in some ways. Even a former religious leader with no psychological training pointed out the challenges I face specifically because I am more advanced in several areas combined with that lacking basic social skills. The gifted part of me finds ways to compensate, and those ways are not always "socially acceptable". Years of group therapy specifically in those areas has helped me "catch up", most of it as an adult, but I still struggle in many social situations. I think there's a balance of giving vs. taking control that varies for each child. Limiting the number of choices while still giving the choice may help--she can wear the red shirt or the white shirt rather than "which shirt do you want to wear today?". And if there isn't a choice (ie. going to the car to run errands) don't give one--if possible just take her by the hand and direct her to the car, already give the "command" (let's go get in the car so we can...) when you are already setting her up to succeed. The 30 minutes doesn't seem to me like it would work--does she really have the option of not moving on to the next activity? Believe me, if my "choice" was finish breakfast and go to school I'd drag out breakfast as long as humanely possible! Schedules & routines are good, but things happen just because they need to happen, and the world doesn't stop for her. Structure combined with love & reassurance, which I'm sure you are already giving, is key.

My daughter is diagnosed ODD. She has made HUGE progress towards emotional and behavioral healing in the 18 months she's been home with us. Her oppositional and defiant behaviors only come out when she's stressed now. Times of transition are when we usually see it. (Such as school just starting up again!) What we've found that works for her: 1. Don't ask questions that can be answered with no. Say, "Let's get in the bath." while walking her towards the tub instead of "Can you get started on your bath now?" 2. Trying not to tell her what to do. Phrase things like, "Mac and cheese travels to our mouths by spoons, not our fingers. Would you like me to help you use the spoon?" instead of "Don't eat with your fingers." (Our daughter is 10 and I still offer to help her do things she can totally do on her own.) 3. Don't engage in battles you can't win. If you can't stop her from doing something or make her do something you want, don't tell her to do it when she's in that place. Only start battles that you can win. When she wins, she thinks you aren't strong enough to be the boss of her, which means you can't keep her safe. 4. Talk to her about it. "It seems like you are really trying to control everything today. I wonder if that's because you're stressed about school starting? I would understand if you feel l ike everything is out of control because of the changes. It might make you want to work hard to control other things." 5. Use humor and take breaks. It's frustrating and overwhelming behavior! Step back from it if you need to.

That's exactly how my son is and it does not change. He's been in therapy for 3 years and it has gotten better in some areas but worst in others as he approaches his teen-age years. He will be 11 in February. Now he's against school and we're having a hard time making him understand how important school is. So braze yourself because this does not get easier. Please make sure that you are willing to take all the pain and troubles that go on with adopting an adhd/odd child.

One of my foster sons has ADHD, PTSD,Bipolar and ODD. He is 12 and it is a constant battle to get him up for school. He hates school.We have tried everything.