Lost .. . so lost

Please don't think that you can have a 2nd trimester abortion and then just 'move on' with your life a few weeks later. Many women who have abortions, even early ones, are haunted by them. I know several women who to this day, many years later, feel depression because of it. You have carried this baby for 4 or 5 months and its now a part of your life. You will always remember it...no decision is a good, easy, perfect one. They all have consequences. But which consequence is the best to live with? There are women who have had abortions that can't look at a baby without wondering "what might have been" or wishing they had given their baby life. Some of them don't enjoy their future planned pregnancies, because it reminds them of the pregnancy they ended. I realize adoption might haunt you too, but abortion is just as likely to haunt you.

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with aclee on this one. Ethics and morality aside- we are sitting here telling a woman that possibly getting a second term abortion is a viable and acceptable option. Maybe it is for some people. I can't say. Furthermore, she has suggested she would like to go abroad to do so. To a country, no less, that has sketchy abortion laws at best. What on earth is everybody thinking? There are reasons, particularly physical reasons, in which second term abortions are not common. Not to mention the possible (probable?) pyschological consequences. I'm the biggest pro-choice liberal on the block..but I find this thread particularly disturbing. I don't think abortion is murder. I don't think laws should dictate reproductive decisions. But I do think that as women, it is our responsibility to regulate and control or reproductive lives. And I don't think running off to a foreign country to terminate a nearly viable fetus because adoption seems unthinkable is a good idea. I'm adopted. And I'm not the biggest adoption advocate, to say the least. I don't think adoption is always a great choice. We make our choices and then we live with them. Tell me- how will the OP cope? I don't have all the answers....but the answer here seems pretty clear to me.

aclee, you put the worst possible spin on what she said and it was, quite simply, a vile and mean spirited thing to say, calling her "selfish." It can be argued that it is equally if not more selfish to continue a pregnancy to serve one's moral comfort zone all the while INTENDING to abandon responsibility for the life brought into the world. That is the other side of the sword I mentioned. How do you know that she didn't mean that she couldn't imagine herself creating a life and bringing it into the world with the intention of ABANDONING it, disrupting its attachment to her, stealing and throwing its identity and family away, and dumping her most important responsibility and duty on someone else with no guarantee that it would work out well for the child? And no ability to fix it if it didn't? Essentially tossing the child onto the mercy of the universe? That is how some people view termination of parental rights. That is why some people can't imagine themselves doing it. Doesn't mean that they judge others who do, they just can't square it for themselves. You can sound reasonable cautions about traveling to a different country for a medical procedure if you like, but you can't excuse attacking this woman's character and sensibility, and that is what really boils my blood. Calling her selfish and telling her she needs to hear you say it was simply meanly self righteous. ETA: I've been pregnant three times, two live births and one miscarriage. I've also adopted a relative from foster care. Several friends and family members have had abortions. The only people I've heard had regrets were those who placed a child for adoption--because of bad things that then happened in the child's life and/or unfulfilled expectations of the adoption.

I know this topic is hugely controversial, and I've been having trouble coming up with a response. I'm just going to go ahead and agree with this statement: and this one: I do hope the OP will reconsider her decision.

I'm sorry you are unhappy with my choice of words. I stand by them, and clearly, so do others. Best of luck.

"she couldn't imagine herself creating a life and bringing it into the world with the intention of ABANDONING it, disrupting its attachment to her, stealing and throwing its identity and family away, and dumping her most important responsibility and duty on someone else with no guarantee that it would work out well for the child? And no ability to fix it if it didn't? Essentially tossing the child onto the mercy of the universe?" ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

Le_Love I tried to send you a message, but your box is full. Here is what I was trying to send I am not here to judge you. Just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. There are 100s of people who are thinking of you at this very moment and who will go to bed tonight worried about you. Please find someone to talk to.

Aclee, I think my main concern was that the OP sounded very desperate (mainly from the title of thread) and I was worried that she might feel that there was a "fourth choice" to be made (I don't want to spell it out). Raven did point out the negatives of late term abortion right at the beginning so hopefully that would have been helpful for the OP to know. I tried to keep out of the abortion/adoption thing altogether and concentrate on the next few weeks - in fact, I feel the counselling should not concentrate so much on the baby but on her overall situation. It would be good if she came back on here and actually gave us an outline of her situation. I think the OP has heard that when it comes to abortion and adoption, the pain from adoption is far worse than from the pain from abortion and that has scared her. I would suspect though that in almost all of those cases, the abortion was fairly early in the piece. I would imagine that late term abortion would be a totally different kettle of fish altogether.

I understand your concern Cath. Personally, I don't think the way I said it was that harsh. I think she needs a wake up call. I tend to be blunt when people need a wake up call. In whatever way it takes, from what people have said here, I hope she gets the help she needs before she proceeds.

Just a reminder to all who are posting: abortion can be a highly charged subject, please try to avoid judgemental language.

My god, Hadley, is that how you view the women who make an adoption plan? Do you really think we just abandoned our babies and threw them away? A lot of us thought we were doing what was in our children's best interests at the time of their births. You make it sound like we're the scum of the earth for not aborting them instead...

It seems to me that many women are condemned for whatever choice they make.

I wasn't going to say anything in this, um, discussion. However I REFUSE to sit here, on an adoption site, and read this... First off, creating an adoption plan does not equate to abandonment at all!!!!!! That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in a very long time. I don't even like my bmom and I am VERY happy that I was adopted, but even MY bmom did not abandon me. She made choices. She did what was best during that time in our lives. I was not tossed into the mercy of the universe. I wasn't put in a forest with the hopes that some kind wolf would come along and make me it's foundling for heaven's sake. Even a person who uses Safe Haven isn't abandoning their child, they are ensuring that they are safe!!!!! My family was not "thrown away"...as a matter of fact I was given the opportunity to be raised in a family that I was cherished in. I was respected as a member of it. Before we go into the "not all adoptees" get to have that..."not all PEOPLE get to have that", so that arguement isn't going to cut it for me tonight. And to say that someone is DUMPING their responsibilty when making an adoption plan IS cruel and downright judgemental!!!! What is dumping one's responsibility is to NEGLECT a child, not providing the child what it needs. If adoption is the choice that a parent makes for their child's needs to be met, then they ARE being RESPONSIBLE..not dumping their responsibility!!!!! I think it would be best if I just sign off this computer and get some sleep, at this point!

Guys, To be fair to Hadley, I don't think she was using this thread to state her views on adoption. She was stating that SOME people feel that way about adoption and none of us know if that's the OP's stance on it or not. She was pointing out that the OP may be in a position where she feels that adoption is not a good moral choice, just like some feel that abortion is not a good moral choice (hence the double edged sword analogy). OP, The previous poster that said lots of people are thinking about you right now was right. Please think about all of your options (I know you said you have, but keep thinking about it). Do you have ANYONE that can offer you support in real life right now? Either decision you make will be difficult. And please listen to the concerns about going to Mexico for this. They are legitimate concerns.

usariah has it right. The rest of you may be too blinded by your own self righteous judgmentalism to bother reading or getting the point of what I said. I'm sorry, but I have HAD IT UP TO HERE with the sanctimonious beating of the adoption drum--ESPECIALLY when it is used to HYPOCRITICALLY condemn another woman's perfectly valid personal moral framework. How dare you people call her selfish? Look at how selfish your own actions could be painted. When you hear someone say, "I could never place my child for adoption" they are not necessarily condemning you. They are stating that it would be an unacceptable action for them. That is perfectly valid, just as valid as someone saying "I could never have an abortion." You may feel that placing a child for adoption is a responsible action for you or in your worldview. Others don't. They are no more wrong than you are. Condemn them, get ready to be condemned on the same basis yourself. You don't like it? Too bad. Why should you be immune to the same treatment you give her? The idea of "selfish" and judgmental condemnation HAS NO PLACE between women who claim to support each other. If it is not selfish to bring a child into the world and turn around and terminate one's responsibilities to that child, then it is CERTAINLY NOT selfish to refuse to betray a born child's trust and right to identity, parents, and family. Judgment is a double-edged sword. I warned you not to swing it. Now you and others are cut by it and don't like it. Too bad. Maybe next time you'll think before setting yourself up to be God and sitting in judgment on another. And, btw, born children are NOT property. They are NOT gifts to be given away. They are NOT prizes to be deserved or won. Their well being does NOT depend on being "traded up" to "a better life." They are human beings for which the people who bear them and bring them into the world are absolutely responsible. Would it have been too much to ask that you simply support this poster by empathizing with her pain and struggle? Maybe encourage her to be sure her doctor counsels her fully? Talk to a therapist? Respect that she is an adult? Apparently it was. Instead, you heaped scorn on her and tried to terrorize her into doing something that feels terribly wrong to her. And that is why I am so angry and calling you on it so harshly.