18 placing vs. 18 reuniting

Agree totally with what you are saying. Btw Bethy baby - I've missed you! Hope you are going to hang around!

This is kinda how I think about things when I'm talking on these forums. When I'm talking about my child, or hypothetical child when they're grown, I refer to them as my child because even when they're 50 they're still my child. Same thing if I'm talking about a real or hypothetical AP/adoptee or even BP/adoptee relationship. No matter how old the adoptee, they are still the AP and BP's child. Hence why I might refer to a woman considering placement as an adult, but when talking about a hypothetical situation involving APs and an adoptee, I'm thinking about a parent-child relationship and might refer to the adoptee as a child, even though they may be an adult. I know adoptees sometimes do get miffed because they're constantly being referred to as children, or made to feel like children. But that is definitely not my intent in my posts.

And again, I think this is where personal experience dicatates our thoughts. Our fees were so very VERY low (and everything was broken down to the dime) that it certainly never felt like a financial transaction.

Yes it is definitely based on personal experience. I just meant that I can see the blood diamond analogy because I can see how some might feel that it is similar to a financial transaction, and because it's analogy that relates to how people are treated in a process.

Part of me thinks I should stop beating the horse. He's dead enough. I don't think we're that far off, Crick. You love your kids and want to protect them from harm. Thats clear. You can see the impending emotional rollercoaster from an RU and would like to minimize their pain. I get that. You would like the opportunity to assist an counsel/be involved with the process. That seems reasonable as well. Given the glimpses i get into your parenting from this forum, it seems like you have a great relationship with your kids.. and that they'd welcome the support. My point is simply that the decision to include the AP as counsel, to have the AP involved should be up to the adult adoptee. In your case, this will be a no brainer. Of course, your kids will value your insight. In the case where the AP has sent mixed messages and is clearly conflicted, the adult adoptee may choose not to include them.

This makes absolute sense to me. Admittedly, I didn't "catch" that from your previous posts - thanks for explaining it this way.

This is exactly where J and I are in our reunion. He absolutely does NOT want his APs even knowing about it, much less involved in any way. At first I was concerned about his approach but now that I understand why he feels this way, I couldn't agree with him more. His APs have nothing good to offer in our relationship, there is a high probability that they will attempt to force J to choose between them and me, and it's best all the way around to leave them out of it completely. J's position is that he doesn't request his APs permission for any other relationship he has so why should he request their permission for our relationship? J can put on a military uniform and risk death, therefore he can elect to see and talk to me. The logic is absolutely sound, particularly in our circumstance. As for the difference in attitudes between placing and reuniting at 18, it seems to me a serious double standard is applied. Perhaps that is to be expected but it's a double standard nonetheless. If it's ok for the average 16 year old female to choose to give up her baby, it's also ok for the average 18 year old to choose to have a relationship with his/her BPs whether or not the APs are notified or involved. It really is that simple. I'm near the point of thinking that BPs shouldn't even notify APs of an intent to make contact once the adoptee is the age of majority. The decision to let APs know about contact and/or have any input into the adoptee/BP relationship should be left to the adoptee, who after all knows more about the specific dynamics than the BPs.

I have been thinking alot about this thread and finally decided to throw my hat into the ring. Let me preface all of this to say that this is one of the reasons why I am such a strong supporter of OA....so that their isn't this huge emotional door to open at 18.....I would much rather help my child learn to navigate these relationships as she grows up rather than waiting for the specific age of 18. I have to admit that I am a bit uncomfortable with the idea/feeling that adoptee turns 18 and it is fine to just pounce regardless of their Aparents input....because they are considered legally an adult. The thing is, legal adult or not most at 18 are just finishing high school and are still living at home with their family and their parents. Parents are usually still footing all of their bills, helping them pick prom dresses, choose colleges, navigate BF/GF relationships and breakups etc.....KWIM... still actively Parenting. I think it is disrespectful to just say it has nothing to do with AP's. They have an active relationship with their child and in my opinion that should be respected. I think that contact at the specific age of 18 should go through the parents initially. It shows a respect not only for the parents of the young/new adult for for the entire family unit of the child/new adult. Now on the other hand, of course I think that the Aparents MUST share information about contact within a reasonable time frame. Not necessarily that week or even that month if it is exams, graduation etc or something within their reasonable judgment as parents that would tell them to wait a little bit. Of course, wanting the BParent to disappear off the face of the earth is NOT within :reasonable judgment" :evilgrin: . Once they have shared that information then yes in a perfect world they would support their child in this new relationship....this other member of their child's family.....and hopefully for the child's sake welcome the Birth Parent as a member of the child's extended family. I cannot see how any good parent can be just expected to butt out, not care, not be interested, not want to be a part of this new relationship and not worry about their child being hurt in some way shape or form by this new relationship that has so much importance attached to it. Yes the child MUST be in the driver's seat but in some ways I would be suspect of the parent who says OK sweetheart, here is the contact info, now, good luck with that! I get that for a Birth Parent waiting desperately for the age of majority and the magic age of 18.....that it may seem like that is the day they have been waiting all these years for to reunite with their child. For the Aparents and the Adoptee they may have used the language of when you are an adult/when you are older, I will help you look, you can search or your birth Parent may look. I don't know that Aparents or Adoptees for that matter, necessarily expect that on the 18th birthday the fireworks will go off and the reunion will occur. It might not be this huge surprise element but there may be less weight to it than to the Birth Parent who is waiting KWIM. Now to segue into the 18 placing or 18 reuniting......maybe the answer really isn't that it is OK for an 18 yr old to have to make the decision to place but what I am not hearing in this thread is that the same 18 yr old that is having to make the decision to place is ALSO having to make the decision to parent.How can we ask an 18 yr old to decide to become a parent for the rest of their lives. How is that OK? I mean ideally, the 18 yr old wouldn't have to be making those decisions. But, at that point it is what it is. Choices have been made by THAT 18 yr old that have put them into the position of HAVING to make those choices/decisions for themselves. {Which is actually unlike the 18 yr old adoptee who really didn't have any choice/decision making about becoming an adoptee}. Now again ideally, the pregnant 18 year old would have good family support in THEIR decision to place or to parent, because again most 18 yr olds that choose to parent would need to rely on parental support to help them to parent. Again most 18 yr olds are still in school, still living at home and still actively being parented to a degree themselves. It really isn't an OK decision for an 18 yr old to HAVE to make between parenting or placing. That is why parents of teens are so darn worried about them getting pregnant.......no decent parent WANTS their child to be faced with that at such a vulnerable age. But, when it happens OK or NOT OK, it is a decision that has to e made. sm

To be fair, I don't think anyone is saying that the APs should or should not have anything to do with the reunion at all. Most are saying what you say in the next paragraph, i.e. it is not APs decision to decide whether or not the 18 year old should know about contact and most would agree that a month is OK. I just want to clear up that when I personally have said on here that it is nothing to do with the APs, I am purely talking about whether to tell the 18 year or not. At the same time, if the APs won't tell their child, then I think it is OK for the BP to reach out another way though they should be very careful of how they go about it.

I did say I'm close to taking that position and allowing the adoptee to determine whether APs know of and/or have input on any reunion. So yeah, I said it. Based on my own experience and those I've read of, AP involvement doesn't seem beneficial at all, and may often be detrimental. The adoptee is in the best position to make that call, and I think they should have the final say on who is involved. In my particular circumstance I owe the APs nothing whatsoever, least of all respect. If anyone owes anything, they owe me an apology and an explanation, and they've owed my son what they promised me all those years ago but utterly failed to deliver. The thing about respect is that it is earned, not owed. At what age do you think an adoptee is free to pursue relationships with the first family without seeking APs' permission? Dropping off the planet is the response I've seen more often than not. In my case it was a two year wait. I'm still kicking myself for not going with my instincts. I should have, and my son has confirmed that. In my situation, my son is convinced that his APs will do everything possible to sabotage our reunion, and he has chosen to deny them the opportunity. I respect his decision. Do you think I should go behind his back and tell his APs about it? Or let him take the lead on that? I'm interested in your take since what my son wants is the exact opposite of what you wrote. I can't speak to the AP/adoptee perspective but yes, many fmoms wait for that date with a lot of anticipation. That doesn't mean that fmoms are getting ready to throw atom bombs, however. In the thread in which the OP's question arose, the fmom is being very, very careful about it. In my case, my son contacted me at age 20. Once an embryo exists, the male and female are parents by definition. There's nothing to decide about whether to be a parent at that point--they are parents. Furthermore, not every 18 year old is assumed to be inadequate to the task of raising their child. Until very recently in human history, the typical 18 year old woman was already married and had a child or two. My grandmother had her first child at age 17 and that wasn't unusual. So the assumption that an 18 year old woman is utterly incapable of raising her child(ren) is not necessarily valid. I agree that keeping kids out of the situation to start with is the best approach. Having gotten my daughter graduated from high school with no pregnancies I'm firmly in the avoid-the-situation camp.

No Hummer I wasn't really responding to your situation in particular and was trying to follow Crick's Rule #1 at the beginning of the thread about posting as neutrally as possibly. I am sorry about your son feeling that his parents would sabotage his relationship with you.....that really sucks for everyone and most of all it really sucks for him. Divided loyalty is brutal and the child shouldn't have to be put in that position by either set of parents. And no of course I do not think that you should go behind your 20 year old's back...not at all.I was posting about "most" 18 yr olds today that do live at home with their families and have decent parents that want to support and guide and protect their child/young adult heading into an emotionally charged new relationship. My point was that any good loving parent is going to be concerned and want to be there for their child but that the child "MUST" be in the drivers seat. {Heck my daughter was 11 when I started opening her closed adoption and she has been in the driver's seat since day 1.....meaning we follow her lead in what SHE is comfortable with.}It is not so much that I think that the adoptee needs permission....I don't think I said that at all......I said that I think at the specific age of 18 with all of the other things I mentioned that should be taken into consideration that "initial" contact should go through the parents.With regards to respect I should have clarified that I think there should be a mutual respect shown to all of the members involved......{and in most cases the AParents have earned it 'cause raising kids is darn hard however they come into the family}:laundry: Congrats on both getting your daughter graduated AND not pregnant.....having an almost 17 yr old son who is giving me a run for my money lately I know that both are big accomplishments with teens:: :loveyou: SM

Somewhat off topic but perhaps not... I see people continually reminding mothers that things were different 10 or 20 years ago and want to hear how the mothers experience within the last 5 years was when it comes to choice, manipulation etc. What we are talking about here are adoptions that happened during that same era...and if mothers placement was different then, would we not not assume the same on the flip side? That the new parents most likely bought into the 'go away and get over it' mentality unless you were unstable? Perhaps all the parents now would react differently in 5, 10, or 15 years when their kids reach 18, but everyone says things are so different now - so is it really a stretch to believe the (a) parents from 20 years ago views may not be as open as yours? Kind regards,Dickons

I'm not sure how I missed this thread. Some of you know my story so I'll try to keep it brief. I was not quite 18 when I placed my first son for adoption. The birthfather denied the baby was his so I got no support from him or his family. My parents said that I couldn't stay at home if I kept the baby so I got no support from them. I loved my son so much and I know that I did the right thing for him in the circumstance that I was in at the time but I missed him so bad. I was naive I guess because I thought that he would want to be reunited with me as bad as I wanted to reunite with him. When he turned 18 I sent him a letter and I sent his parents a letter. I told all of them that I was not trying to interfere in their lives or upset or hurt anyone. I just wanted the opportunity to get to meet him and maybe get to know all of them. No one responded to me. I was dvestated. I also have an adopted son. He was 4 hours old when we got the call about him. His birthmother refused to see him in the hospital or to meet us. I send her a letter and pictures at least once a month and have told her repeatedly that if she ever wants to meet him just let me know. I didn't want her to go through what I went through as a birthmom. She has yet to respond to me. He is almost 2 1/2. My fear is that if and when he decides he wants to meet her that she will not respond and he will feel hurt and rejected. I know how bad that hurts because that's how I feel with my birthson. I feel rejected. I intend to always be honest in an age appropriate way with my son. He will know that I will support him in meeting his birthmom but he will also be prepared that she may not respond to him. At what age I help him to reunite with her will depend will depend more on his maturity level than the magical age of 18. If I feel that he is mature enough to handle it if she does not respond to him before 18 then I will help him. If he wants to reunite at 18 and I don't think he is ready then I will encourage him to wait. If she seeks him out then I will be happy for him and encourage them to build a relationship. If there is a letter in my mailbox someday from my adopted son I will just be beside myself with happiness.

I am assuming though that whatever his maturity, you would still actually tell him if she had made contact. That is my only issue, the just the not telling. I don't think many of us on here have an issue with a parent giving their child advice, just an issue with not actually letting their over 18 son/daughter know.

Of course I would tell him that she wanted to contact him. The next to the last line of my post says, "If she seeks him out then I will be happy for him and encourage them to build a relationship." If she seeks him out at 6, 18, 25 or 45 years old I will do whatever I can to help him develop a relationship with her.