so frustrated with AD(long)

Creative little thing. Put an alarm on her door and lock up the tools. Don't ask questions that require her to lie. She cannot tell you the truth and she knows you know she is lying. Crazy lying-like when caught red handed is a defense mechanism and she likely cannot control it. Use statements like-Interesting choice. Well, that didn't work out too well. She obviously took the mint. The lie is less important then the fact that she was unable to leave the mint. If she is breaking her own things, she has too many things and cannot handle them. She likely won't work to earn them back either. If they belong to her and she breaks them-bummer. If they belong to someone else, she'll need to do something to replace it.(birthday money, allowance money, chores, something) It also means you buy inexpensive or usable gifts rather then really nice stuff. I don't know actually means I don't care and she's not going to tell you why-ever-until she's healed. Sorry, wish there was an easy fix, but there isn't. Make sure her therapist is well versed in adoption and trauma issues as this is where this odd behavior comes from-trauma and neglect.

When did the behavior start? It sounds to me like it could be linked to the finalization - her way of testing whether you really and truly mean that she's your daughter forever. I'm sorry about the lying. That's so frustrating! I agree with lucyjoy - don't give her the opportunity to lie if you have a choice. Another idea - when you ask her something where there is a distinct and provable answer, then tell her "It's important that you tell me the truth. If you do not tell me the truth, then there is a consequence (e.g. No TV for this evening) for your behavior AND a consequence (e.g. No TV tomorrow) for not telling the truth. If you tell me the truth, then you will only receive a consequence for the behavior." This may or may not work. My DD often "tests" this by doing it multiple times before she believes that there will be multiple consequences if she misbehaves + lies about it. One thing I tried with my DD when she was stealing was to "steal" from her, using the same excuses she used when she stole. Example: She stole from a kid in her class. I asked her why. She said "I wanted it." So, that night, in full view of her, making sure she was watching, I "stole" her bracelet (she's 5 and loves making jewelry from beads - it wasn't anything with sentimental or monetary value). She said "Noooo! That's miiiine!!". I said "Too bad. I want it." I talked to her about how she felt about the bracelet being gone and linked it to the thing she had stolen from the other kid. I kept it until I was sure she was done with the stealing thing. For my DD, at least, a lot of her bad behaviors are impulsive, so asking her why she did something doesn't get a whole lot of useful response. I rarely ask her why she made a bad choice. Asking her why also often has the unintended side effect of giving more attention to the behavior as well. I sometimes think that she misbehaves because she gets 1:1 time to talk about the misbehavior. When she has a misbehavior multiple times in a row and we've talked it to death, I will send her for some alone time and say "We've talked about this many times, I'm not going to waste my time talking to you about it again. You know what you did wrong and why it was wrong. Go to your room and think about it for (x amount of time)."

I also don't discuss or question my daughter when she did those things at the same age. I assumed she would lie, assumed the truth....etc. I would state the truth as a fact "I see you took another mint" and then discuss how the choice worked out for her. I would also discuss other outcomes and how those could be achieved instead of what really happened. Until she heals the impulses won't go away, so work on managing how she accomplishes meeting her needs/impulses in the least damaging and destructive way possible.Always let her know YOU know the truth, and don't ask if you don't have to. In fact the only way to get my dd to tell the truth used to be to accuse her of something crazy, and she couldn't resist proving me wrong and would offer up the truth. I wouldn't ever let her know it made me happy to hear her tell me the truth, because then she would realize she was being tricked out of lying.I would also limit her "stuff". Lucy has really good advice.

Not sure how far into 7 she is, but i had to give up on the "how" and "why" at that age. DD honestly didn't know. She didn't have the ability to analyze and reflect on the situation According to her teacher, that was pretty normal for that age. We're almost 8 now and I'm seeing improvements. Punishing ripping an apron would NOT be a tact that would work in our house. Dealing with the underlying problem - be it anger, frustration, need for attention - has yielded better results. YMMV Empathy is only just starting to from at 7. These days, I would explain how much love went into creating it and how hurt I was that it was destroyed. When she was 6, however, I would have let it go. And learned not to give her anything special until she was older. As for snagging the discarded chocolate and hiding it? Hell, i did that until I was an adult. :p I'm guessing she has some issues around finalizing. It sounds like she needs to talk to someone. I'd ask your former CW for a referral. Two years ago, I would have laughed at the idea of a 7 year old in therapy. But it really helped us. good luck

Do be careful with that one. For that to work the child must understand empathy, AND like you, AND not presently be angry with you. If the kid doesn't like you or becomes angry then this strategy will do nothing more than tell them exactly where your weak spot is. Like others, we've simply stopped asking those questions. We take no action based only on any known liar's spoken word. When they tell us things that we don't already know the truth about then we give non-committal responses that don't indicate whether we believe them or not. After awhile you don't really have to think about it. That is just how it is.

I agree with jeffw. For my attachment kid, this would've made it worse in some ways. She would've then TRIED to find things that she could destroy to hurt my feelings. Remember that when they're acting out due to attachment issues, the primary goal is to push the caregiver away in any way they can.

I agree. I can use empathy, these days - 2 years after finalization when DD is clearly bonded. Even then, its not an every day event again, YMMV

Thank you all for the great advice!!! I love this forum. Lucyjoy- her therapist we are seeing right now is wonderful and has several years experience and training with trauma. Right now we are doing play therapy and she has come so far. Thank you!!! Minibus- I have tried talking to her about before she answers think of the consequences. Sometimes it works, other times not so much. I also think my daughter is very impulsive and a lot of times doesn't know why she doesn't things. Thanks for the advice!!! Aspenhall- thanks for the advice. It can be so frustrating but this to shall pass. Wcurry- she will be 8 at the beginning of September. She does have empathy towards others and is very loving. I believe you and the others are right in that we wont be getting her anything expensive for awhile. As for the mint issue, it was more like the last straw for me than the actual taking of the mint. Those mints are awesome, so I understand:) I do think the issues could be due to finalization. We have an excellent therapist and will be talking to her. Thank you for your advice!!!! Jeff- thank you for the advice!!

Have you read this article? It really helped me: [url=http://www.deborahhage.com/articles/lying.html]Lying and Teaching the Truth - Deborah Hage, MSW[/url]

I was just getting on to reply the same thing. Don't give her the opportunity to lie, because she will. Just tell her. Every time. Yes, it is exhausting but it will save you some frustration!!

We have and are still working very hard on the ''telling the truth'' issue with our 10 yo AS and 13 yo AD.I agree with the other posters about not giving her an opportunity to lie, if you can help it. Learning to tell the truth is a gradual, developmental process that traumatized kids may come to slowly. Break it down into small steps, reward honesty at every turn (even going so far as to say, ''hey you told me the truth! There will be no consequence for (whatever they did) this time because you were honest''.)We know we still can't believe everything they say, but they are telling the truth more often and that is a victory in itself.Edited to add - and get that child some kind of kit to work on electric stuff - she may have her future career already picked out!:clap: