Anyone else tired of being the reject?

I'm sorry things are particularly bad for you right now. I do think the manipulation and then looking like the rotten parent is the hardest part to overcome. It took me a good three years to get to the point I would look at someone and say, when you get to pat down your kid everyday before school so he can't take the knife to kill the teacher, get back to me! And to mean it and not care what they thought. Anyway, it's a terrible feeling to always be made to look like the cause of the "poor little child who just needs love"'s problems. One thing I have come to often wonder about since being without my RAD kid for a year now (and have had time to ponder things other than how to keep my kids, family, house and job safe): I wonder if they really do have a choice or if there is permanent brain remodeling that to one degree or another, changes the way they process and respond to circumstances. My opinion was always that they have the capacity to learn and change, but after four years of trying and being further behind than when we started-- now I do sometimes wonder if it's to some degree permanent brain damage. We don't think anything of TBI's being permanent sometimes, maybe some of the neglect and abuse can result in permanent damage...

Oh yeah, I am right here with you. We gave up on therapy there is no one in area that knows what they are doing and is willing to take our son. I have just started reading everything I can get my hands on and learning all I can and I am doing the best I can on my own. He is improving, but it's so so so slow.

We started doing Nancy Thomas parenting about 4the months ago, and have seen HUGE changes since then. Ive found that I feel much less stressed as well. I will say however that the therapy has been helping a lot. But even our therapist admits that MOST of the work is in the parenting. The director at the therapy agency adopted a RAD kid who tried to kill a sibling prior to being with her. She said she was able to get her daughter fully healed. The director did say that after age 13 or so, it is very difficult to heal the disorder because at adolescence children are becoming more independent, which goes against attaching to a parent. About the brain: The director said that many of thr techniques from Nancy Thomas have been empirically proven to help physically heal the brain. I've related (in my own mind) my daughter's RAD to being somewhat like an addiction- these are bad CHOICES she makes, but she wants to choose them desperately. But her progress had been incredible: Now her RAD behaviors are very subtle: no more big tantrums, but she'll ask for gogurt right as we sit down for dinner. I never say no, my responses are, "Of course you can have that AFTER dinner". But she is helpful, kind, and funny now. Nancy has 5 day long sleepover camps for families with a kid with RAD. They are SO expensive but, apparently do a years worth of work. For my DD, husband, and me to go to the one in our state, it would be $2400. Luckily, our therapist thinks DD could be fully healed by then. I hope this is helpful.

Thank you. This was very helpful. I have read a little about Nancy Thomas as well as taking a Heather Forbes seminar. The camp sounds wonderful! No idea where the money would come from, but I will look into it. I saw a video online one time about "Camp Connect" but could never find the info about it. Is that Nancy Thomas? The addiction idea fits my dd perfectly. It appears as though she WANTS desperatley to be this way, but really I think she just doesn't know how to stop!

It's called Camp Attach. You can go to attachment.org and find info. According to your profile state, the closest one to you in the next year is our Florida one... $2400. They do have scholarships, but it only cuts off $400 (I've heard) if you qualify. I've heard it's worth every penny. The camp is March 24th to 30th. Might want to check out the book in the meantime: When Love is Not Enough

Have you contacted your local (and one in the nearest major city) adoption support group to ask if any of them know of an Attachment Therapist? I don't even want to think about where my family/children would be without our Attachment therapist. I hope the camp works out for you. Even if you have to put that camp on your credit card it would be worth it for the emotional health of your daughter as well as your entire family.

I've read that kids with RAD should *never* see a therapist alone. It's somewhere between not helpful and harmful. Everything you describes fits what I've read about RAD. It sounds so difficult to live through. From what I've read, I'd say get a therapist who specializes in RAD and family therapy right now for your sake and your daughter's. You've still got a few years left when RAD can be effectively dealt with, but the clock's ticking! Blessings, Mia

As a therapist, it's so hard to see how many families struggle with finding someone who understands them and their children. There are a lot of great therapists out there! I would encourage you all to look at some of the websites online, like attach.org; attachmenttraumanetwork.com; and emdr.com.

This topic creates even more frustration for me! Why doesn't DCFS have a list of therapists that can treat RAD? If there are therapist in this area that understand RAD, I have not found them. Why don't they contact DCFS and make themselves known? I have interviewed too many counselors to count. We have had FOUR in the past four years. NONE of them would meet with me WITH my kids. Most only wanted to talk to the kids and would only meet with me for 5 minutes after the session. It went nowhere. My kids are very manipulative. They feel most comfortable in the victim role. They take no responsibility for their actions. How is individual therapy going to help? I could go on and on. This just makes me very angry. Our family is broken. I wonder sometimes if my relationship with my older two kids is beyond repair. I feel like I am doing a prison sentence and parole is in about 10 years when they graduate and MOVE OUT! I pray every day that my younger two can somehow make it through this 10 years in tact. I pray that my marraige survives. My husband has wanted to disrupt for over two years now. He keeps trying because I do not want to give up. Sometime I fear him leaving with the younger two kids to keep them safe. This sucks and it is WRONG for the state to do this to families and then essentially say "yeah, good luck with that!" This forum is the only place for me to speak freely... so there it is.

Here is a good example of the crap we deal with on a DAILY basis. Went to the beach for three days. Got ready to pack up to go home. Ask my dd (9 yr old) to look under all the beds. A few minutes later I asked her if she had looked under all three beds. She said yes. Long story short... she took her little sister's favorite house slippers that she just got for her bday and hid them under the bed so they would be left behind. I just happened to put my foot under there and felt something. I asked her about it because she had suppossedly looked under all the beds. Well, she lied (as usual) but since her lies didn't make sense, she eventually told me that she hid them because she wanted a pair and didn't get any. So, she's jelous. It does not matter what we buy for her, do for her etc. she always wants what other people have and thinks she is being done wrong because she doesn't get what they get. (she got slippers for christmas but apparently they were not good enough...not as good as her sister's) This as an isolated event...not the end of the world, siblings get jelous ect. But this stuff happens DAILY. Now I am wondering something else. My husband's keys have disappeared TWICE in the past couple months. He always keeps them on top the fridge out of the little ones reach. I have lost several things as well. I am not known to loose things at all. I found a pair of my socks hidden in the back of her closet. She eventually admitted hiding them on purpose but could not tell me WHY! Not trusting your own children sucks. I hide my cash in a different place other than my wallet. IN MY OWN FREAKIN HOME. :mad: Do they sleep with knives under their matress? no. Do they try to set me on fire? no. Do they torture animals? thank God NO. But this mental manipulation, violation of trust crap is still very hard to deal with.

If none of the therapists in your area know how to treat children with RAD, is it possible to seek out a family therapist? Maybe family therapy would help a bit...or at least help you enough so you don't feel like pulling your hair out.

Family therapy is what I thought I was getting with the last two therapists. But, once I met with them the first time, all they wanted to do is meet with the kids. They were of the opinion that my husband and I are doing everything we can and the kids are the ones who need the attention. I know I need to keep searching...it's just hard to keep putting myself out there over and over again.

I'm of the Nancy Thomas thinking in that I never give my RADishes (13 and 15) a chore that the family depends on: --no cooking other people's food (because they'll either burn it or put gross, non-food items in it. :mad: ) --no setting table (or we'd all be waiting to eat) --no packing of anyone's clothes but their own (cuz they'd be the only ones with anything to wear). --and no checking to make sure nobody forgot anything at hotel (because they'll make darn sure they don't find anything). Instead, they get the "fun," nonessential chores like: --picking up dog poo (because if they don't, THEY don't get to play in the backyard where the poo is!) --cleaning toilets --washing dishes AFTER supper (can take all night long and miss the family movie, if they wish) ...And if they don't do their own chores in a timely and effective manner, another sib can do it FOR them and receive THEIR chore $$/privilege. Then only the RADish has to suffer for her own choices. This particular strategy only works when DH and I are consistent and DON'T YELL/LECTURE RADishes. When we lecture ("How could you...?!" "Why did you...?!"), they grin and enjoy the fireworks, thriving on the chaos. (Or they feel ashamed and say they honestly don't know why they did X. They just felt driven to it.) When we just shrug our shoulders with a "stinks to be you, kiddo" attitude (because they've been given "hassle chores"), "but luckily you've got strong parents who love you no matter what," we can let it go and they have to stew in their own poor choices. If I'm not angry with them (because I make it THEIR problem and not mine), I can be a much more loving parent. For the stealing, I have only one recommendation: LOCK EVERYTHING UP in a safebox or a locked room/closet. Even at 6 mine were expert thieves! My middle ate several classmates' lunches a day on her frequent trips to the bathroom on the other side of the coat closet! It took the teacher several weeks to discover a desk-full of empty pudding cups, chip bags, half-eaten sandwiches, allergy medicine (yea, that one freaked me out!), etc. They WILL steal. If you make it impossible in your home, you won't find yourself wanting to strangle them. :cool: And you absolutely have to make any school behaviors the teacher's/school's problem, not yours. I wish I'd known that in the beginning. If the school isn't willing to take your advice for your RADish, then they can deal with the consequences of their own, worthless star charts, behavior ladders, etc. (What a joke, right?!) I finally bought a clear vinyl backpack online and whichever kid was stealing peers' stuff (toys, fancy pens and pencils) had to carry that backpack. I even went so far as to sew my oldest's pockets shut! (I chuckle looking back, but at the time I was so frustrated at finding new "junk" that she'd bring home daily from somebody else's desk or bookbag. This kid was NOT learning, she was practicing at become a professional thief!) And when all the preemptive moves failed us, we just took them out of school and I homeschooled them. (And mine are doing much better emotionally and socially, though the middle still has a long ways to go attachment-wise. And the oldest still lies to peers when she doesn't know what to say. Elaborate storytelling!:rolleyes: ) I hear you about the therapist quandry. We, too, had 4 or 5 therapists over the years, the latest being the closest to a true AT. (She NEVER met with kiddos alone! #1 rule for AT...never meet with kid alone because they WILL triangulate and manipulate therapist!) But even she eventually gave up on my middle because she doesn't seem to want help (though I can tell she does sometimes). She's just so angry and fearful (and blames everyone else for her own bad behaviors). She needs to get to a place where she can work through that hurt and fear to come out the other side a stronger, healthier young woman. So we're still looking for a better therapist, but meanwhile we're reviewing the Nancy Thomas DVD lectures that she sells on her site. (It has 7 DVDs in it, I think.) Good luck! I hope I've been a little helpful! One day at a time...even in the best of circumstances!

I know this is an old post but I am going through the same issues with my 13 y.o. Nothing seems to work, wondering if you found any good solutions?

So it's been a while since the original post. We still have not gotten back into therapy....but I have been doing a lot of work on myself to try and come to terms with where my family is right now. My dd still hides my things and lies and asks nonsense questions, but I have to say, she's really much easier to live with these days. I am learning to accept her the way she is. The way God accepts me in all my imperfection :eyebrows: "His mercies are new every morning" So, I try to wake up every day and put the past behind me. Forgetting what she's put our family through and showing her mercy. The more I work towards getting myself in a better place emotionally, the more warm I feel towards my daughter. I'd say I'm a little above freezing now! lol She still grates on my nerves, but a lot of that is simply personality differences. She has a way of pushing people away. I think of her like a porcupine. They look kinda fluffy from far away, but the closer you get the more likely you are to get a quill or two jabbed into your skin. Age and maturity is working in our favor too. She is still emotionally immature, but a little more able to have conversations with us. I have taken a very HONEST approach with her that some may disagree with, but I figure I didn't have much to lose.:rolleyes: I have told her that I really do want to be her mom and have a good relationship with her like I do with my two younger ones. But, I told her....It's very hard to get close to you because I always end up getting hurt. I will always love you, but I would really like to be close to you so you can feel what it is like to have a mom. It's up to you if you let me do that or not." The past month I have tried a little experiment that I will write about in a separate post. Very interesting.