Advertisements
Advertisements
Forgive me if this is posted in the wrong section, I only just signed up, but I would really like some help with this as Googling for hours has left me clueless.
I recently found a copy of my husband's birth certificate. Me and others have been suspicious that he is not his mother's child for many reasons listed below. Not only that but we plan on children soon and I would like to know for the child's right to know their blood, and also if there are any inherited health issues through the birth mother, whoever she is, that I should be concerned about. I also feel like he has the right to know, but if/how to tell him is an entirely other topic.
My two main questions:
1. what does it mean if a star is next to a name on a legal document, particularly a birth certificate? I noticed that not only is the certificate incredibly vague but there is a star, not an asterisk, but a small image of an upside-down star next to his mother's name.
2. In what circumstances is the time of birth not listed? The time of birth is missing from his birth certificate, amongst other things. From what I've read in some situations this is required to be considered real certification of birth. I've even looked at multiple state's versions of short-hand birth certificates and they all include time of birth.
Keep in mind that this is also the birth certificate that the military accepted and made copies of, so I am to assume that this was the most 'informative version' or 'official version' of certification of his birth that is available. He also has a passport, so I guess this was accepted for that as well.
From what I understand of the legal system, whether something is printed in bold, italics, caps, and the font chosen determines a lot of its meaning. So I have listed details of that as well.
Here is the entirety of his Certificate of Live Birth typed up:
-----
CERTIFICATE OF VITAL RECORD
Certificate of Live Birth
Name:
(bold, italics, all caps)
Birth Date: (bold, italics, no caps)
Sex: (bold, italics, no caps)
Birth Place: (bold, italics, all caps)
Father's name: (bold, italics, caps. full first, middle and last name listed)
Date/Place of Birth/Age:
(bold, italics, only state name in caps)
Mother's Maiden Name: (bold, italics, caps. full first, middle initial, and full last name listed, then a small image of a star in the upper corner, spaced a ways out from the last name. the star is also upside-down like a pentagram.)
Date/Place of Birth/Age: (bold, italics, only state name in caps)
Date Filed: (the date filed is only 19 days after his documented birth day, so that is apparently not unusual as mine was just 14 days.)
Certificate Number: (10 digit number)
(State name in caps, then county name. The rest is not bold, italicized, or in caps. Smaller text and Times New Roman font used.)
"The foregoing is a true and accurate copy as recorded in the office of the Register of Deeds of __ County, (City, State)
Witnessed by my hand of official seal this date of (3 years ago.)
(Then a signature of the register who signed the copy.)
(Seal of county and state and seal of register of deeds for county.)
-----
I understand the short hand and long hand versions of Birth Certificates, but I do not understand this one.
I searched countless images of birth certificates from around the time he was born, as well as the state he was born in, and this looks nothing like anything I've found. Although I read that the new birth certificate for adopted children would show no signs of being amended or indicating that the child was adopted by one or more parents, I can't help but wonder if that star was placed to indicate that the mother was the adoptive parent to informed individuals?
The birth certificate does not list the time he was born, his weight, height, the hospital he was born in, if it was natural or c-section birth, the nurse/midwife, or doctor. There are also no signatures but the deputy who signed the registered copy, officiating that it is a certified copy of the original.
The above information on the certificate is also not listed in a 'table' like one would find on most birth certificates. The font is also not the typical Courier New-esque font that I see in all other legal documents. Everything seems to be typed in Times New Roman except for the title "Certificate of Live Birth" and the listed "Name" "Birth Date" "Sex" etc. which looks like it is in a font like Arial, Verdana, or Tahoma.
It really just looks like someone typed this up in word processor and then printed it on the official paper, then signed.
*Additional Info On His Family*
There is a lot of reasonable suspicion that my husband's mother adopted him and I'm not the only one to say so. We think his dad had him with another woman and that his dad's wife adopted him as his new mum. He is their first born son and there is absolutely no bond between him and his mother, she treats him like a dog and puts his sister on a pedestal, she acts like she resents him and openly calls him 'the problem child' when he is an amazing student hard working and the nicest most responsible person I know, him and his dad are very close, I'm suspicious his dad maybe had him while he was deployed in the military, etc.
But first and foremost, he looks absolutely NOTHING like his mother, barely resembles his father (a cleft chin and light brown eyes), he looks nothing like his father's siblings, his only sister, or his mother's relatives. His mother is blonde-haired, blue-eyed and looks Polish. His dad and his whole family are Scotch-Irish and my husband looks at least half middle-eastern. He has thick, black, straight hair and his dad has thin, wavy, brown hair like most Scottish. His mother's hair is also thin, straight, and naturally almost white blonde. His sister has brown hair, pale skin and covered in freckles, and blue eyes. My best friend growing up was a product of a blonde-haired blue-eyed mum and an Iranian father and he looks like he could be her brother.
I know that his father is his real birth father because he said he had DNA testing and confirmed that he has an inherited inverted chromosome from his father. I have no idea why he wanted this testing or if it was confirmed or ask to be confirmed if his mother was his biological mother, I find their whole situation odd.
When I asked, they say they did not take pictures of him when he was a baby or when he was little. I'm doing a scrapbook and asked for baby photos, or if there was a photo of his mum holding him in the hospital bed and he looked annoying and begrudgingly said he would ask her. I have a hunch that he knows he is/may be adopted. I'm 90% sure if he knew though, that he would have told me. With the relationship we have and being married, it would not make sense knowing his character for him not to tell me that.
If anyone can help me determine if for certain or the likelihood that he was adopted, or help me find out more details on what his birth certificate means, I would really appreciate it. :thanks:
I just think they can state what the star means and what it typically means when a birth location isn't given.
I don' think they are in the business any longer of hiding the fact that we are adopted. They are just in the business of hiding who our biological parents are.
Advertisements
Thank you all for the replies!
I'm not sure if I can call and get that kind of information because I am his spouse, but I can try and ask for a long-form birth certificate to be mailed I guess. As far as what the star means I would be really interested to know that too.
I would think that if the star was placed because they didn't know where he was born, that maybe it would be placed on the line where the county, city, and state were given rather than next to the mother's name. I know that they lived there while both of their children were born before moving, so I suppose they would have made that his birth home.
I am very suspicious that his father had an affair while he was stationed overseas and brought a child back because the mother couldn't take care of it or something. Its equally possible he had an affair while in the states, I would just think more likely overseas. But if that were true I wouldn't really know how to find out. Would he have a dual citizenship that he wasn't aware of? I don't know.
I know he's already had a DNA test although he mentioned nothing about his mother lineage, it was an awkward conversation when it happened. I feel really bad bringing anything like that up with him though. I know his relationship with his mom is already not good and I definitely don't want to make it worse by telling him that I think she's not his biological mother. So if you think I should, how should I bring this up with him?
He has told me before a few times that he hates 'not knowing' something or things being kept from him, so it seems that he would rather know than not ever know, or know later in life. There could be an entire family that he won't have the chance to connect with, but I have no idea how likely it would be to find his birth mother at this point, especially if she's in another country.
All advice is really appreciated. I don't want to do anything to hurt him, but if his parents haven't told him already at his age, they never will.
Blackstar, I am married to an adoptee (for sure!), and I guess I am like you...very curious, etc. I don't have bio children but I can see wanting to know for them as well. But from my own experience dealing with my husband navigating "reunion," I would let your husband have complete control over this (I wasn't always so good at this!). He may "know." He may not. He may be ready to do something about it or he may not.
I suppose you could tell him you are curious and ask if he wants to do something about it/wants your help, etc. Other than that, I think it could be a bit of a minefield. Best of luck!!
You do not know if he's adopted. Why not do a search on the [URL="http://registry.adoption.com/"]reunion side[/URL] to see if anyone matches his info? You also need to find out if the star means anything.
I agree with loveajax. This needs to be something that your husband wants.
If he doesn't want to know right now, don't pursue it.
Advertisements
Thank you very much for your input. I definitely don't want to be the one he resents or looks at for ruining his relationship with his parents and family, that's my worst fear. That he sees me as someone who took something away from him, and that I 'did this to him.'
On the flip side, if he finds out that I knew what I know now and never said anything to him, he would also resent me for not respecting him enough to tell him. Could become suspicious, never trust me again, paranoid of me, etc.
I feel like either way I won't win, but ultimately I feel like he would want to know, regardless if he ends up hating me for a while or not. That's my personal feeling with him.
I'm just wondering now I guess if I should continue this strictly on my own, in my own privacy to find out if he was adopted and keep it to myself, or if I should ask him, talk to him about it, and do this with him? I'm hesitant to the latter because I'm not sure exactly how much he would want to find out and I would like it if I knew for reasons listed above for our children.
I guess it's just a difficult situation that there's no real written manual for, eh?
You need to tell him what you found and what you suspect, and then let him decide what he wants to do with the information.
Thank you, Roselvr. I will probably look into that and see if there is anything that catches my eye.
L4R, that's what I'm most concerned about. When I first met his parents, I 100% jokingly said 'maybe you're adopted' (something I will never joke about again) in response to his parents' story-telling about how him and his sister act differently. Their response was awkward, and that's what gave me my first hint of suspicion to be honest, not just that they look nothing alike.
He may have a hunch judging by his reactions but it's something he's never discussed with me. Is there any good way I could bring that up with him, or should I just keep my mouth shut?
I am going to try and order a long-form copy of his birth certificate from vitalchek and call North Carolina Vital Records tomorrow and see if I can at least find out what the star by the mother's maiden name means. I'm not sure if Vitalchek will send me a long form but I'll let you guys know what I find out.
Advertisements
blackstar
Thank you very much for your input. I definitely don't want to be the one he resents or looks at for ruining his relationship with his parents and family, that's my worst fear. That he sees me as someone who took something away from him, and that I 'did this to him.'
On the flip side, if he finds out that I knew what I know now and never said anything to him, he would also resent me for not respecting him enough to tell him. Could become suspicious, never trust me again, paranoid of me, etc.
I feel like either way I won't win, but ultimately I feel like he would want to know, regardless if he ends up hating me for a while or not. That's my personal feeling with him.
I'm just wondering now I guess if I should continue this strictly on my own, in my own privacy to find out if he was adopted and keep it to myself, or if I should ask him, talk to him about it, and do this with him? I'm hesitant to the latter because I'm not sure exactly how much he would want to find out and I would like it if I knew for reasons listed above for our children.
I would suspect that continuing to pursue his information without his knowledge or consent is more likely to cause suspicion or anger for most people than not saying anything. If you have questions or suspicions, bring them up with your husband. Even if you want to know, he is the one who really has the right to know or not know. Think about it this way:
Say your husband wants to know about your past sexual relationships because he wonders if at some point you could have contracted an STD and worries how/ if it would affect any future children. Maybe something about what you have told him about relationships seems off to him, so he wonders if you may know something, but doesn't want to bring it up with you. Instead he looks through yearbooks from your high school/ college days, talks to your old friends about who you dated, and then tries to find out if any of them may have an STD. Are you going to understand and accept his reasoning, or will you feel hurt, angry, betrayed, etc?
That may be a pretty extreme example, but you are talking about invading his privacy regarding something that may or may not be there, and if it is true he may not know or may know and have chosen not to talk about. I would think very carefully about the implications before moving forward if it were me.
blackstar
I am going to try and order a long-form copy of his birth certificate from vitalchek and call North Carolina Vital Records tomorrow and see if I can at least find out what the star by the mother's maiden name means. I'm not sure if Vitalchek will send me a long form but I'll let you guys know what I find out.
I asked an adoption advocate friend of mine (JS)... Hope this helps. I'll read the rest of the replies in the morning but wanted to get this posted
This is what she said
I have no idea what a star would mean on a birth certificate. As for details, that varies, too. Technically, the delivering doctor's signature should be on it, but I don't know whether the absence of that detail would render the certificate amended.
One sure way to tell, though, is by the filing date. If the birth certificate was filed with the state within days or even a couple of weeks of the birth, it's an original. If the filing date is a year or more from the DOB, it's amended. This is because it normally takes a year for an adoption to be finalized after filing, and the new (amended) birth certificate doesn't get made up until finalization. That's why so many adoptees aren't able to get passports - the INS spots the delayed filing date and demands additional documentation.
Also want to include the [URL="http://vitalrecords.nc.gov/faqs.htm"]FAQ's[/URL] that show you should have no problems ordering a new one since you're married. You may need a marriage license as proof
Certified copies of vital records are not available to everyone. North Carolina law [NCGS 130A-93(c)] off-site link specifies that certified copies of certificates are available only to the following people:
A person requesting a copy of his or her own vital records or that of the person's spouse, sibling, direct ancestor, direct descendant, stepparent, or stepchild
A person seeking information for a legal determination of personal or property rights or
An authorized agent, attorney, or legal representative of a person described above
NOTE: Proof of identity and proof of eligibility are required.
Roselvr
One sure way to tell, though, is by the filing date. If the birth certificate was filed with the state within days or even a couple of weeks of the birth, it's an original. If the filing date is a year or more from the DOB, it's amended. This is because it normally takes a year for an adoption to be finalized after filing, and the new (amended) birth certificate doesn't get made up until finalization.
This may be true much of the time, but not necessarily. My son's amended birth certificate was filed well within a year; most adoptions are actually finalized in about 6 months from placement, at least at this time. Also, I have a friend whose original birth certificate was not filed until she was five; the small hospital where she was born had a glut of babies and got overwhelmed and somehow ALL the birth certificates were never filed. No one knew, though, until they went to register all those kids for kindergarten and couldn't get birth certificates. I've heard of delayed birth certificates in other situations as well, such as home births where people never bothered, were unable to do so, or some conspiracy theorists and cults who refuse to do so to prevent the government from tracking them.
Advertisements
blackstar
I am going to try and order a long-form copy of his birth certificate from vitalchek and call North Carolina Vital Records tomorrow and see if I can at least find out what the star by the mother's maiden name means. I'm not sure if Vitalchek will send me a long form but I'll let you guys know what I find out.
[FONT="Century Gothic"][URL="https://www.vitalchek.com/birth-certificates"]VitalChek[/URL] does in fact send long-form birth certificates. There is a part of their ordering process that you must indicate this though.
Did you go through with this? Id love to know how your/your husbandҒs situation is going! I know how stressful and downright confusing this all can be. :flowergift:
[/FONT]
I agree with the people who've already pointed out that this is something you really should be discussing with your husband.
It is NOT something you should be doing on your own.
I'm sure you are coming at this from the best of places, and with the best of intentions. You love your husband, you want to start a family together, you want to know what the story is... I understand that.
But to search without his consent would be a huge violation of trust.
So bring all your thoughts to him - say that you noticed some odd things about his birth certificate, and that, coupled with his strained relationship with his mother, plus his totally different appearance, makes you wonder if there's more to the story than meets the eye. Tell him you suspect he may not have a biological link to his mother. Offer to help and support him if he wants to find answers to the questions you've brought up. Then sit back and see what he says.
He may want to pursue it. He may not. But that's the thing - if he truly is adopted, then it's his decision to make. Searching for one's birthparents is an intensely emotional act, with all sort of pros and cons that must be faced...
If he does choose to get some answers, well, clearly he'll have your support, 100%. He's a lucky man.