Suboxone treatment and RU - How many successes?

I know A LOT about addiction and addiction therapies (because of my line of work). One thing to quickly clear up is Suboxone is not for coke or meth. It is for opioid dependency only. It is used for replacement for drugs like heroine and opiate prescription pain meds. Just wanted to respectfully clear that up. As far as success goes, it's not pretty. I believe the latest statistics put the relapse rates in the high 80% to low 90%. For one to come off of Suboxone successfully they need to be fully committed and in some sort of treatment (even just AA or NA). I don't have experience with its use in foster care yet, because we are still in the process of getting licensed. There are only a couple of pharmaceutical options for opioid replacement therapy. The 2 most common being methadone and Suboxone. In my opinion Suboxone is the better choice as they work VERY differently (although you may come across those who say they are exactly the same....drives me batty!) Methodone is taken daily from a clinic so the patient is at least seen often. There are many cons though, such as patients can take their morning dose of methadone and it will usually get them almost as high as their original doc (drug of choice). I've seen patients straight nod out at the bus stop after getting dosed. Even if it doesn't get then as high as they like they can later go out and score their doc and take both, methadone doesn't do a good job blocking other opioids. The relapse rate is higher on methadone and its just harder to get off of. Ive seen patients struggle their whole lives to get off methadone. Suboxone on the other hand is pretty neat. Most patients can get a monthly script for it and take at home. 9 times out of 10 it will not get the patient "high" and even for that one who will get a high, its very mild in comparison. The best thing, it blocks all other opiates for up to 48hrs, sometimes more! So if say your bio took her Suboxone dose Friday morning and has the opportunity to score friday night she most likely won't because it will be a huge waste of money. I work more with medical professionals that got hooked to opiates and most of then take the Suboxone route because it allows them to live an almost normal life. I know that was a lot of info and I know I skipped a bunch more. If you have any questions at all please ask and I'd be happy to answer them :woohoo:

They use Sub for heroin addicts...and it is addictive and can be abused, and it doesn't change the brain changes that the drug addiction have caused, and rarely will produce long term behavioral changes either...glad it is available for some, but its not likely to solve the problems for an addicts children in the long run...

What I am curious is this, the CW said that MANY (his word) people can manage to successfully parent while on Suboxone. My research is showing that those who are long time abusers don't have much success staying clean even on it. Someone told me that they'll save up their Sub so that they can get high, but then take the Sub to help them get through the withdrawal, until they can save up to get their DOC again. This is someone who has firsthand experience. So also trying to find out what other drugs can present as Xanax in urine or present as Sub.

Calimomma, thanks for that, so interesting!

Sorry, I did get the drug that it is for incorrect. I just remember being told that it wasn't for coke and was VERY surprised because for 10 months I had been told coke was their drug addiction. I was alo told the success rate was horribly low and that just makes my heart ache for my former foster babies:'(

I have seen patients parent wonderfully while in Suboxone treatment and even through eventual weaning/discontinuation of the medication. I've seen parents who have to stay on sub indefinitely and do just great. Of course these parents were highly motivated and their children were never in care. I've also seen the complete opposite, just exactly as you described. Holding onto sub to get them through withdrawal until they can get back on their doc. With a GOOD addiction specialist this couldn't be possible though as it is easy to spot my patients that do this. Unfortunately Suboxone is very expensive and even more expensive when you have an experienced and thorough Dr. More than likely your bios are on medicaid (unless they have an extra 600-1000 to spend monthly on treatment) and the Dr.s in my area that take medicaid are crap. So they could get away with it. as far as testing, there is a very specific test for Suboxone. It will not show up as an opioid so if your bio test positive for anything else its due to that drug. Xanax will show under benzos on a standard urine screen. Other drugs that fall under that category would be valium, klonopin, and ativan...to name a few. this is one of the only areas I'm incredibly knowledgeable in so please ask away!

Re Adderall, I R *not* a doctor, but I've heard that it can be very addictive. Here's what wikipedia had to say:So I'd guess it would just show up as amphetamines. (Guess.)

You would be correct. Adderall is just that, an amphetamine. And yes, it is highly additive.

I must of missed this earlier. It isn't that suboxone is addictive, it's that the body becomes dependant on it. Drug dependency and addiction is very different. With addiction people will risk anything for the drug just to get that next high. The psychological cravings take over and the drug consumes them. With dependency the body will go through withdrawals when the drug is stopped suddenly. Many drugs cause dependency (antidepressants and blood pressure medication to name a couple). Most patients, not all, don't get addicted to sub. If anything they go back to their doc. They don't get addicted because it's incredibly hard to abuse. Sure, there are some who abuse it but usually it's a case where patients goes back and forth between sub and their doc. The reason it's so hard to abuse is that it has something called a ceiling effect. Once they take a certain dose it will not cause anymore "high" no matter how much is taken. For example if mom was on 16mg and wanted to try and get a high one night she'd be outta luck. Any more sub she took wouldn't do a darn thing and any opioid wouldn't touch her either. It binds too strongly to the receptors. Patients I see may get a slight "high" the 1st week of use but almost always goes away and nothing but going off sub and back to their doc will get them high again. As far as behavioral changes go, I somewhat disagree. If you have someone 1/2 a**ing it of course nothing is going to change. But I've seen so much of the opposite. Again, most of the people I work with are highly motivated. I've witnessed amazing changes in the people I work with. But the suboxone is just the bandaid that allows them to learn how to live a life without drugs (with INTENSIVE therapies). I had a mom I was working with last year. Her 2 kids were 8 and 6. She was lucky as she had never been in legal trouble and throughout her addiction had a support system that played a big role in helping her care for the kids. She was a medical professional that got hooked. Started with vicodin ended with shootimg uo heroin. This sadly happens too often. Im not going to sugar coat it, while her kids were always fed, clean and loved...she was a crap mom. When she came in for help she had been abusing opiates for 5 years and was a mess. She had tried unsuccessfully to quit many times, in and out of rehab. In that first month on suboxone I saw her completely transform. She participated in and completed an intensive outpatient program. It was because of sub that she was finally able to complete the program to learn the behavioral changes. I believe without sub she'd still be a mess.I still see her regularly and she is still clean. She is a very involved and wonderful mom. I know that there are probably a ton of bios who won't be nearly as successful, btw this is one of the reasons im now pursuing foster care. But there are many of those who do great. Even if for some it means life long maintenance with suboxone. I believe long term maintenance therapy is better when facing the high relapse rates. Sorry for the long drawn out post. I got into this line of work because of a family history of drug abuse and addiction. It's a topic very near and dear to my heart.

So, based on your assessment, this bio mom could succeed. Very sad. Her cognitive abilities are so damaged but she could pull off the masquerade.

OP, how did your case end up going? I am in a similar situation now. Foster daughter was removed from bio mom when the cops showed up at her apartment for a trespassing complaint--I think a restraining order against baby daddy. Anyway, she was "off" and they removed foster daughter due to environmental neglect (filthy house) and she also has a suboxone addiction. I am wondering what the success rates are within the foster system of parents being reunited/recovering from a suboxone addiction... I am actually rooting for bio mom and hoping she can get it together. Foster daughter is only 16 months and a total sweet pea, knows tons of words, brushes her teeth, colors, knows all her farm animals, etc. blows kisses... her mom adores her but obviously would need to overcome this addiction in order to be reunited and she has zero local support network. Wondering about her chances.

Bio mom did nothing for 22 months, except visits. County asked me to adopt, I of course said yes, told bio mom that they were filing to TPR and adoption, and she (finally) checked in to inpatient rehab, 9 months after she was supposed to. The rehab center pulled strings, got the permanency hearing continued for 6 months, and he was returned to her in March. Allegedly she has remained sober, but there is a lot more there I can't share. We got very close to extended family so I keep in knowledge a bit. She let us see him 4 times since, but cut us off after the last visit August 1st. My son is of course heart broken. FFS is failing fast. It was heartbreaking to see how quickly he went downhill. I am keeping my license open for some time in case he comes back, but, I suspect that he will not. The case is closed now and bio mom will blow the place once she has gotten all she can out of it. He will be in juvenile detention by the time he is 10. He had a chance at a good life. I am done fostering. I cannot do this to my son again. I think had I had him for another year, then he might have had a chance, but at 4, he still had a lot of formable time left and her influence is too much.

I'm so sorry. Horrible parents seem to make it through to reunification and then just mess up (or were never better to begin with) again without the court stepping back in. I'm sorry you had to say goodbye to your little boy in such an unpromising way.

Well, obviously if she was taking illegal drugs while on it, it’s not gonna work. But suboxone is an amazing, lifesaving drug that helps many addicts recover and get their lives back. I’ve seen many parents go that route and it has worked wonders for the them. The chances of relapse are greatly reduced when a person goes on suboxone.

She could not have had a suboxone addiction because suboxone is not addictive. Do you mean she was using suboxone to treat her drug addiction? You don’t “recover” from suboxone addiction; suboxone IS recovery from addiction. You can taper off of it and therin lies the challenger, but many people do taper and get off of it and remain clean from other substances. However, there is no need to taper. Suboxone is a maintenance medication and can be taken for life. It gives the addict their life back. It puts them back in control, helping them overcome cravings for the drug(s), etc.