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When my wife and i first started dating, her daughter was 5 years old and in kindergarten. Her daughter's birth father had visitation every month or so. That didn't go on for long because he had $5000+ in back child support and warrents out for his arrest. That was 5 years ago. During this time, the birth father and his mother would call and harass and threaten us for not allowing her to go to visit anymore and because he didn't want to have to pay the child support, that he never paid anyway. They aren't very nice people, to say the least. We had the police at our house numerous times because of these phone calls. They lived like 4 hours away, in another state, so it's not like we were worried about them coming up and actually following through with any of the threats. But, the last time this happened was around June of 2003 (we got married in May 2003). The cop got on the phone this last time with him and said "If you wouldn't have to pay support and wouldn't go to jail for not paying, would you allow your daughter to be adopted by her mom's husband? He agreed, so we started the process Well, his mom and sister didn't want to see this happen, didn't want him to give her up, but he did anyway, because all he cared about was not losing the money or going to jail. I ended up adopting her in February of this year, 2004. Her grandmother and aunt keep sending her cards and SMALL gifts and asking her to call them and saying they want to see her. We let her see the cards and have the gifts, but won't let her contact them. An important note, she NEVER asks to write or call them. She doesn't even think of them or the adoption until we get a card or a phone card from them. We have since even moved to another state and didn't let them know we were moving. But, we still get our mail forwarded, so things come from them about once every few months. She's finally started calling me dad and daddy since we've moved here, especially because she doesn't want to have to explain that she's adopted because she calls her dad by his real name.... Anyway, I'm having a real dilema trying to decide if this should go on or if we should cut all ties. We now have a normal family, with the grandparents, aunts, etc. Her biological father gave up his rights and their rights as well. I don't want her reminded that he didn't care about her at all every time they send her something. I think it's in her best interest to have no contact with any of them. They're bad news anyway. So, I guess that's my question, am I right or wrong here? I even suggested to my wife that they could email me occasionally and I'd reply to them with photos and updates on how she's doing and what she's up to. But, my wife wants to cut all ties completely. What should we do???? Any advice and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Sincerely,
S D Miller
PS, she does gymnastics, jazz, tapp, chorus, softball, and has recently started taking enrichment classes. She stays busy and has a happy, full life and a "new" family on my side who love her like their own.
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With all due respect,I firmly believe that the bigger a childs circle of love,the better off they are.I do not think that we as parents have the right sever family ties of our children.If all these family members want is to love your daughter and have a small amount of contact what harm is that to her?It sounds like you and your wife are threatened by these people.I would ask myself honestly who would be benifiting from that you or your daughter.
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If they are really bad people, then my opinion would be to cut the ties. I'm not adopted, so I can't give an adoptee viewpoint, but I have bio relatives that are bad news, and after I was grown up and moved away, my mother would tell me occaisionally that this or that 'bad news' relative had asked for my address/phone number but that she didn't give it to them. I always had mixed feelings, for example, on the one hand how nice of cousin X to think of me and what-is-with-my-stuffed-shirt-mother, but on the other hand, whew, glad I don't have to deal with weird Cousin X.
The older I get the more relieved I am not to have had to deal with annoying/dumb/pathetic relatives. But I also feel a little guilty, maybe families should help each other out, even the nasty/loser/makes-bad-choices members. On the other hand, I am not making any moves to introduce any of them into my happy life.
No, we're not threatened. We're just worried that it is a constant reminder that she's adopted and she doesn't want to be reminded of the dead beat dad who wanted nothing to do with her for all 10 years of her life. And, did you miss the part where I said the grandmother has continually threatened and harassed us? I can maybe see keeping contact with the aunt, but it would be hard to do that without the grandmother being involved. Thanks for your opinion though, I appreciate all view points.
~S
Well, let me respond to several points in your post first.
You said that they would call and threaten and harass you because you wouldnt let him see his child because he was behind on his child support? Had he taken you to court, he would have won. Child support is separate from visitation҅you would be in contempt of a court order to disallow visitation based on non-payment. Was it wrong of him to threaten and harass? Of course it wasbut he also should have been allowed the visitation he was awarded, so I canŒt say that I blame him.
You mentioned that they arent very nice people, yet all you have said is that he hasnҒt paid child supportlack of payment doesnŒt necessarily make someone badit makes them somewhat irresponsible, but not bad. If the lack of child support and the subsequent angry phone calls are what you are basing your opinion on, then I don't think thatŒs a very accurate label.
You also said, I don't want her reminded that he didn't care about her at all every time they send her somethingӔwhich again, I wonder how you came about that conclusion. Sure he wasnŒt financially responsiblebut that doesnŒt mean he didn't care. After all, he fought to try to see her, after you and her mother decided that non-payment would cease visitation, to me, that indicates he cares a great deal.
In all honesty, her having contact with her paternal biological family is not going to make her any less your daughterif she really considers you her dad, then visiting/talking/writing to them isnŒt going to change that.
My suggestion, send them letters and pictures with updates until the child is old enough to voice her own opinion about ongoing contact in a few years. Cutting off contact now is not going to make you more of a family, nor is it going to make the issue disappearit will just bury it until a time when she comes to ask you and your wife why you decided to disappear when his family tried to maintain contactŅthen who will she be upset with?
Forgive me, I just saw you posted again, so I will respond to that.
Your daughter, like it or not, will always be adoptedhaving the other part of her birth family in her life is not going to make it worseŅkicking them out will not make it go away.
Incidentally, arrearages of $5000.00 don't constitute a dead beat dadmy son is also ten, and his biological father is behind $40,000.00Ņadditionally, my son still has ongoing contact with his paternal grandmother, even though it was very rocky in the beginningconsidering the conception of my son resulted in her son going to prison for ten years for rape.
Let me ask you, what bothers you about the grandmother having contact? The phone calls?
I don't have any words of wisdom, but I do relate to your issues. In my case, it was a 'dead beat' mom. My son was only a year old when his dad and I got together. His bio mom has a number of issues, mostly substance abuse. She has not seen the child in years, has never paid support, has never shown any real interest in him.
Her mother, however, has been okay. She does not threaten or harrass, and we have a civil relationship with her. However, keep in mind that her loyalty will always be with her daughter (as in your situation the grandmother will always be loyal to her son...). So, there are occasionally inappropriate conversations, digs about our son's 'real' mom. Mostly, she struggles with guilt over her daughter and wants to try to facilitate a reunion..
Legally, this can not happen. There are court documents that prevent her from contacting us directly. But the grandmother goes around them - or tries to. She tries to talk us out of following the courts recommendations and rulings.
So, I agree with the poster that said the bigger the better - more people to love your daughter. BUT.. your priority is the safely and welfare, physical and emotional, of your daughter. If she is 10, she can tell you how she feels about contact from these family members. At 5, we trust our son to tell us how he feels about conversations about the woman whose tummy he came from but whom he does not know. You owe this grandmother and aunt nothing. You must do what is best for your daughter.
Good luck! It's not an easy decision.
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Well, when I say they are bad people, it was much more than that, I just didn't have time to type in everything they've ever done. It's way more than nonpayment of child support. I guess I should have tried to include more of what happened. First of all, his mother kicked her mother and her out of the house when she was only a couple months old. Second, her father didn't have anything to do with her. HIS mother forced him to get visitation so she could see her. Third, we didn't stop visitation because of nonpayment of child support. We stopped because we were told by child services not to send her down there when the father had outstanding warrents for his arrest. Fourth, NOT ONCE did the father come and get her for the visitation. His mother would meet us and would keep her while she was down there. She came back and told us they had parties at their house while she was there....drinking, smoking, etc. Fifth, the father would be drinking every night he was around her at his mother's house. Sixth, the father would purposely work under the table jobs and move between two states to avoid the support and arrest warrents...I could go on...maybe this is more of what I should have stated in the first place...they're bad people, besides MAYBE the aunt.... I'll go on if I have to, I thought saying they weren't very nice people would get the point across... Keep the opinions coming though, that's what I'm here for...
Thanks,
~S
PS
The grandmother is a very vindictive, spiteful, deceiptful person who will do things just to make things difficult And, we know she'll tell our daughter anything to make us seem like we aren't looking out for her best interests, to say the least. When I say she threatened us, I'm not talking about "we'll take you to court for visitation/custoy." I'm talking "you f-in' good for nothin' b@tch, I'll come up there and.....etc, etc, etc..." threats...NOT nice people/family. The father even had his brother on the phone telling us they'll both come up and kick my @ss, yada, yada, yada....it wasn't pretty and it was because he had to pay child support for a child he cared nothing about... I'm more concerned for the contact w/ the aunt than anything, I guess that's what I'm worried about... And, I think I'm answering my own questions here....
Let me ask you, what bothers you about the grandmother having contact? The phone calls?
All right thenmore information, different answer.
If I were in your shoes, and this were my kidŅId allow for ongoing SUPERVISED contact a couple of times a year, with the aunt. Maybe some letters and pictures as well.
IҒd make it clear to her that the contact is with her (and Im assuming a spouse and kids) and only her. Explain to her why you canҒt allow grandma into the equationand maybe things will be different.
Let me ask you one more thingŅif Grandma called and said, I was wrong, I shouldnӒt have called you and said those things, I just wanted to see my granddaughter would you let it go and let her have a relationship with her?
Hi,
I really agree with Brandy. Your daughter was adopted. Nothing is going to change that fact for her. Does it need to be "rubbed in her face daily, ABSOLUTELY NOT." However, it's a fact and will always be a fact (she's not going to forget it even if you are the most wonderful daddy in the world to her, just read some of the posts on here). I don't believe that her having some contact with her p-grandparents are going to make her love you or her mom less. If anything, she may grow up to love and respect you more for putting her emotional health above your wishes.
We are adopting thru the foster care system. When their parents rights were terminated I cried. Their worker thought it was because I was happy that we'd get to adopt them. I corrected her and said, yes, I'm extremely happy but I'm crying because a family has been torn apart and family has always been the most important thing to us. I said I know that one day in the future my two babies are going to hurt over what happened here today and I'm grieving over that knowledge.
About 3 weeks ago I sent a letter to their mom to try and set up some sort of semi-open adoption. I had absolutely NO INTENTION of doing this before joining this forum in October. After reading that people that were adopted grow up to be happier more emotionally healthy adults having knowledge of their birth families such as names, dates, medical information, who they look like (pictures), who's mannerism they have, who else in the family can sing, dance, play an instrument, etc., I decided that I needed to put aside my insecurities and do this for my kids. I'm still waiting to hear back from their mom. I did receive a card from her for Thanksgiving and she wrote a very heartwarming note and said she'd be responding within a week so I am hopeful that she is willing to do this for them too.
I'm sorry this has gotten so long. I can tell by your post that you adore your daughter, I just want to ask you to, please, before you close the door on her past, read the posts on this forum to educate yourselves about the potential problems your daughter can face if you do this, then make the best decision for you and your family. You set the ground rules for contact. They either abide or you end things.
Believe me, noone is more shocked by our decision to do an open adoption that myself and my husband - we just love them too much to be the cause of any heartache for them.
Michelle
Let me ask you one more thingif Grandma called and said, œI was wrong, I shouldnt have called you and said those things, I just wanted to see my granddaughterҔ would you let it go and let her have a relationship with her?
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Well, thats all you can do҅you can open the door, you cant make them go thru it.
I dunno, if I were in your position, IҒd send them a certified letter reiterating what you said on the phone regarding supervised visits in your town. That way, when the child gets older, and hears another storyyou have proofŅbecause it could come to that.
I know your wife has had to endure a lot of pain from thembut she really has to put her personal feelings aside and think about the childŅand how she feels.
I don't advocate for cutting any ties between a child and their birth family, unless they have done something to hurt/cause pain to the childthe child should always come first.
As for the 10 year old making a choiceŅlike I said, I have a 10 year oldhe too would rather spend time with friends and playŅbut once we get to the place were were visiting family, he has a blast there too҅if we only went when he said he wanted to go, wed still be waiting to leave ;)
My husband is in the process of adopting my daughter, who just turned 5. She was 2 1/2 when we met and she knew he wasn't her dad and who her dad was. Her dad only wanted to see her when he had a new girlfriend to impress or his mom pushed him to see her or he was in front of his friends. She never referred to him as dad, always called him by his name and started calling my husband dad. If you ask her who her dad is she tells you its my husband, you show her a photo of her bio dad and ask who that is she says his name. She is too young to understand adoption, I think, and all she knows is she is getting the same last name as her mom, dad and baby brother and is very excited. How do I tell her R is becoming your dad when you get a new name, as far as she is concrened he already is. Do I allow her bfamily to visit....her gma NO. Her gma is married to a convicted felon who commited a crime against a kid. They are both very big druggies and her gma tries to start any kid of chaos she can. After DNA test were done on my daughter she talked her son (who will do whatever she tells him to do ) into filing charges against me for rape. They didn't go no where but still the point is that she talked him into it and he did it. Her aunt, gpa, greatgparents and cousins.....she sees all the time....they respect my husband for stepping up like he has and refer to him as her dad and they don't mention the biodad infront of my daughter. Her cousins call me aunt and my husband uncle. They stay night with me and my daughter stays night with them. They even consider my son from my husband as part of the family, as well as my husband. We have lots of get togethers are really close. I think whether or not to allow contact depends alot on how they treat the child and if they support the decisions made about the adoption and doesn't constantly remind the child that the adopted parent is NOT her parent. My husband and I have both agreed that when her biodad grows up and gets his life together and wants to be a part of her life we will work something out, neither of us grew with our father or really knew them that well. He sees photos all the time but I DON"T allow contact at this time due to the adoption not being final. I wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make about allowing visitation. I would personally, if my daughter was 10 I would ask her.....do you want to see them.....do you want to call them....and if she says no then tell them that. If she says yes then I would consider how and what kind of contact would be appropriate, which depends on how the biofamily acts.
Good Luck!
k k,
Sounds like your situation is pretty similar to mine. It's nice that you can stay close to some members of the bio dad's family. The only difference with me is the dad, gma, and uncles are all bad news, from personal experience (phone calls), but the aunt seems nice...although I've never met her personally, and they're the only ones in the picture. Also, like I mentioned, they live so far away and wouldn't pay for her to come up there, I still don't know if SOME phone contact would be beneficial or a drawback. And, the hardest thing is my wife is more against any contact than I am, because she's had to deal with them in person for the first five years. I never had to go through that. But, I think it would be nice to let her talk to her aunt if she wants to. That's what I think I'd like to have happen....ask her if she would like to talk to her aunt and see what she says. Then, I'll call the aunt myself first, set up some ground rules and things she needs to avoid discussing, and then let my daughter talk to her. Your story, situation, and suggestions have helped me the most of all so far. Thanks, I really do appreciate it.
~S