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I am the mother of two adopted girls, aged 5+ and 12+ respectively, who were adopted from Central America at ages 7 months, and 2 years 8 months respectively. Both came home with some issues, which have been largely sorted out. The younger one is somewhat immature for age, but is otherwise doing very nicely. The older one who had frank kwashiorkor when she came home, and had trouble with ADD, CAPD, sequencing issues, visual processing, and secondary learning issues still occupies 90% of my time. At present, post vast amounts of therapeutic intervention, the above problems have been resolved, and she is a fairly ordinary preteen, who is off meds, on no form of intervention, and coping in a very demanding private school, but ever since she hit puberty we have been having behavioral issues which my colleagues assure me are normal preteen issues no more worthy of angst than the bedwetting of a 3 year old, but which I can only say never manifested in me or in members of my family when I was that age.I'd like your opinion about the behaviors. Is it me or her that has the problem right now?1. Sexuality. We placed her in preparatory school at fifth grade because the local kids in the public school all seemed to act and dress like sluts. (The public school was academically excellent, and we were very pleased with it, and her learning disabilities have been history since the end of third grade.) No troubles with behavior in the prep school, and a lot of the trash talk - no actual issue with premature sex yet - went away, but last summer when she went to camp she was sent home early because she and another girl were tongue kissing. The history is somewhat confused, and it sounds like that the other kid initiated it a couple of days prior (per counsellor) and then got ashamed and scared when some other girls barged into the room (per my child). She accused my child of assault. I made my kid write an apology to the other kid and told her that she would not be allowed to go to summer camp this summer as a penalty, on the grounds of WHATEVER THE COMPLETE FACTS MAY HAVE BEEN, IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU BEHAVED INAPPROPRIATELY. However, at girl scout overnighter later that summer, she made several attempts to change her tent (refused by the counsellor that night) because (as she said to the counsellor the next day) the other two girls were wanting to engage in oral sex. All of the girls in the tent got sent home (including her but with refund in her case.) The other girls claimed she fabricated the whole thing, but the counsellor agreed that she had tried to change tents several times that night. I don't know who to believe, but phrased this to her as THIS IS WHY A GOOD REPUTATION IS IMPORTANT. She hasn't done any of that stuff since then, but this past month, I found that she had been getting onto the computer late at night to exchange trash emails with some "14 year old boy" who was urging her to see soft p**n images. I called him up; he turned out to be some 20 something pervert, and I sicced the cops and Yahoo.com on him, but he hadn't actually done anything illegal as yet. He isn't communicating with her any more as far as I can tell. Last week she rented an R rated movie from Blockbuster. I have a notation on my account saying nobody can rent anything more than a PG rated flick without showing proof of age, so I complained to them, but I also made her apologize to Blockbuster, and she is limited to stuff suitable for her 5 year old sister for a month.(2) Defiance. Mostly lying about homework, being passive agressive, and mouthing off. She is in an extraordinarily demanding school. More than half the kids qualify as gifted, and she is now merely average (up from IQ in the 70s at age 5). It is true that if she worked conscienciously, she would basically have time each day to watch a short movie and then hit the sack at a Christian hour, and would not have time to play after school. As it is, she plays with her friends after school, lies about what she needs to do, and - since I make her do it anyway - goes to bed exhausted around midnight. Her failure to be responsible about her homework is making me crazy, since I too have to sit up to make her do it. She can do it, (now), used to be she couldn't, but like I said, she has had a lot of intervention. I have considered sending her to a different school, but the reason I sent her to this one is because the public school while academically good is filled with problem kids, and she behaved worse while there. The parochial alternatives are a good three years behind her current school academically, and two years behind the public school, and character, while important, isn't everything. She goes to military school for 5 weeks this summer to do 180 hours of Algebra I in lieu of summer camp (and as a taste of what awaits her if she keeps it up) but frankly, after looking at the parochial schools, I am less enamoured of military schools. They can only be worse than the local schools academically, and socially speaking, they are probably a good deal worse than the public school in terms of the kids she will come into contact with.IS THIS NORMAL? Am I being unreasonable? Please let me know.
Last update on January 3, 4:01 am by Sachin Gupta.
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First, I'd be seeking help from a therapist regarding the sex issue. I might buy the "but the other kid started it" once, but 4 times?
Second, isn't the afterschool program she's in structured at all? In my son's program, there's play time, then homework time, then free or project time. My son was claiming his homework was done so he'd have the full 3 hours to play, then I started checking, and telling the staff there that they need to check, too. Now when he comes home he sometimes has to finish up an assignment, and usually has to read, but *most* of the homework is done after school. After some initial complaining, he realized that this frees up some time once he gets home, and he really appreciates being able to watch a little (one show maximum!) tv. Our house rule, though, is "no tv until after homework", and, only in very rare instances have I allowed him to stay up to complete an assignment. When he's in high school perhaps he'll be up until midnight, but not when he's 12, on a school night! (And it's only late this year that I've been able to allow any tv at all on school nights. It wasn't just the time it took that was an issue, it was that he'd get into an "I want to be entertained" mode, which meant that as soon as the tv went on, he was effectively checked out for the evening! Even if I then turned it off, he'd be whiny and uncooperative and just generally icky. Whereas if it never went on at all, his whole attitude was better.)
I understand the concern about the public schools; that's where we are now, and I'm doing a lot of praying! One thing I am doing, that seems to be working, is trying to stay in communication with the teachers about what goes on in class, *and* getting to know his friends and encouraging friendships with kids I approve of. If I forbid friendships, he'll get defiant and probably start sneaking, but if I can encourage kids that he already likes, hopefully he'll be too busy with them to have time for the "bad kids". He also doesn't get to go to Blockbuster on his own; he gets input into what *we* watch (and yes, he's able to choose things that I don't necessarily want to watch), but I've just started allowing select PG-13 movies! I would say we're at least a year from him going in on his own and choosing using my card. Also, he's on the computer only for school assignments or to play games he has; it's not in his room and he's not allowed to go to chat rooms or just surf around.
These are just my experiences - take them for what you will. Different kids, different circumstances, different parenting. But I do agree, the teen years are going to be *very* interesting!! Good luck.
<<<First, I'd be seeking help from a therapist regarding the sex issue. I might buy the "but the other kid started it" once, but 4 times?>>>
Three times plus one inappropriate movie rental if you count the "14 year old" she was exchanging emails with. However, it is also true that these perverts hang out on kids chat rooms looking to pick up young girls. And there was some third party (counsellor) information backing her statements of fact. So far it mostly looks like she's really interested in experimenting with sex, but the friends she goes to movies with so far have been female. A "hot date" thus far appears to be talking to boys at the lockers in full view of the entire class. But I have looked into therapists. The family and juvenile therapists in this state are booked up. First opening is in one (1) year. I am on the waiting list, and yes, I do have good insurance.
The afterschool program has no structure whatsoever. The kids are allowed to play on the school grounds; work or play in the computer room (an adult does supervise that, but not all that closely); read in the library, or engage in a variety of competititive sports. (This season she's taking tennis, which unfortunately is not sufficiently exhausting.) The afterschool staff do not help with homework, but the teachers are usually in their offices until about 5 o clock and so are available for help if the kid is disciplined enough to go ask for it. Thus far, that is not my girl. We have never had a functioning TV at home; only a VCR/DVD/monitor combination. (We took the antennae off the TV set in order to disable reception.) The house rules are no electronics of any sort (phone, TV, radio, CD player, Nintendo, computer) until after homework. She doesn't get to use any of the above much except for Friday nights, although of course, if she needs to ask a friend for the homework assignment, she is allowed to use the phone in the kitchen, and the computer is available for wordprocessing under supervision. She got a cell phone for Christmas, but lost if for a year over chatting with the "14 year old". She knows she's not allowed into chat rooms either, but I think she learned how from that friend last summer, and has probably been chatting on the computer at the library and at school. We've had a Net Nanny preventing chats at home since last year. The only computers in the house are five years old, too slow for games, and located in my study off the living room. I DO expect her to stay up to complete homework assignments. I did at her age, although not to this extent, MOSTLY because I was very diligent. (We are first generation immigrants from South Asia, although the kids are Hispanic.) I don't myself watch videos except for business purposes; I've always preferred books, so I have allowed the kids to go to Blockbuster together. I usually look over what they pick, and they know what not to pick. When she rented that R rated Eniemm Nine Mile DVD, she hid it from me, and then snuck down in the middle of the night to view it. I found out because she wanted us to swing by Blockbuster the very next day in order to drop off "just a movie" she said she "thought was really boring; but not rent anything". Since this would be a lifetime first - we are always late returning flicks, I was immediately suspicious. She said she had really wanted to watch Nine Mile because all of her friends at school had already seen it on the big screen. I suppose that is true. It was a very popular movie here in the Midwest, and it is surprising what people will let their young children see. I do allow her to see select PG-13 movies; she got to see Spiderman, and the Harry Potter movies, and the Lord of the Rings movies, and a few others on the big screen, and I'd have been happy to sit through the Hulk and all the rest of the new kid-bilge that just came out with her, had she not been dropped to a G/very mild PG rating for the month.
Sorry if I came across as judgmental, I was just relating my experience in the hope something would help. A year's wait to see a therapist? Ouch!
I know how hard it is to find good afterschool care for an "older" child. The thinking is that once they're 12, they magically have self-control and responsibility and always make correct choices? Wouldn't *that* be nice??
I'll throw out some ideas that have worked for me; I hope you'll find something helpful! You mention the teachers are there after school, if the child asks for help; would it be possible to enlist a teacher's help whether your daughter seeks it or not? One of my son's teachers this year, when she saw I was interested in solving his problems (I guess that's unusual in public schools!) offered to help after school - and both she and I made it clear that he was to be there! And another just gave me a kind of blank stare like "I do my job and if he's not getting it it's not my problem!" So the response can certainly vary, but you might find some help there if you asked. Another thing I've thought about but haven't actually tried yet is to hire a high school kid to come to the afterschool program a few times a week to work with him. My son accepts homework help from others far better than from me. Maybe your daughter could benefit from a good role model? (Not saying that you're not, just that sometimes kids will look up to and try to copy older kids more than impossibly ancient parents!)
The defiance and attitude seem completely normal to me. In our house, fortunately it seems to go in cycles - for several weeks after he turned 12, I wondered if he wanted to live to see his 13th birthday! He was just awful!! And then he'll cycle around and be helpful and loving and cooperative and fun. (We're in one of those fun stages now; I need to prepare myself for whatever's next!) I've read somewhere that the mood swings and defiance are directly related to growing, that when they're in a growth spurt their entire body is out of whack, and then they calm down for awhile and regroup, then it all starts again. And then there's the whole hormonal thing.
I hope any of this helps! Again, good luck.
I could be way off base but i want to add the opinion regarding her being drawn to the bad crowd.
Does your child have any self esteem issues? Does she value herself and feel she belongs or even has a right to belong where ever she chooses? Or does she think her crowd 'has the rights' of choosing her? Does she feel that she still belongs in the family no matter what she does? Or does she feel judged and not loved because she does not measure up?
I only ask these questions not because i know of any answers but that i remember a little of how it was when i was younger. I felt alienated in my afamily and isolated emotionally. I felt judged and unworthy. In school i hung out with whoever accepted me and I felt safe and lucky to even be accepted and not judged in those crowds (i was more the nerd than the doper). Those feelings of acceptance went a VERY LONG WAY.
Good luck with loving your family,
and letting them feel loved all the way no matter who they are.
Colin
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I have 2 points, neither very earth shattering.
First, The "bad" kids are much easier to get "in" with. they are obviously more accepting of things. There isn't enough conversation, IMO re: this. (somehow their parents always seem cooler as well!) :)
Second, I would be careful with the assumptions of what does and doesn't go on at the private schools. My PERSONAL experience has taught me that there was much more going on than anyone thought, somehow it was just more carefully hidden. I don't mean to say there is anything wrong with your school, just keep an open mind!
Love, Debi
<<<Does your child have any self esteem issues? Does she value herself and feel she belongs or even has a right to belong where ever she chooses? Or does she think her crowd 'has the rights' of choosing her? Does she feel that she still belongs in the family no matter what she does? Or does she feel judged and not loved because she does not measure up?>>>
Hard to say. She is popular with both the good kids and the troublemakers, and she is usually kind to people who have no other friends. She's usually the one the teachers pick to integrate shy or new kids into a group. She's always been a social butterfly, but she's been a KINDLY butterfly, and so I do not entirely believe this assault claim from the summer camp. She just PREFERS the troublemakers, because they are "cool" whatever that means. Since puberty hit she's been very labile; easy laughter, easy tears, but then she's always been loud and dramatic. I would say that that is probably par for the course given her personality. As to whether or not she feels that she belongs in the family; well, I think she envies her little sister who has few responsibilities, copes effortlessly with Kindergarten where she is the youngest child and the best reader, has a quiet personality, and is urged by her parents to get out and play with the local children as opposed to coming inside and getting with the homework. (One exception was last weekend, when we went to inspect the local Catholic school (we're Catholics), and found ourselves at a loss for words at the low academic standard. My elder DD who had been very quiet, worried, and wary as we had toured this city school without playing fields or gymnasia, and had looked in on the orderly but crowded classrooms of silent, uniformed, kids doing idiot work; chippered up considerably when we got in the car and said "Well, gosh, this school is clearly there to provide discipline and moral guidance, not academics. I guess we're just going to have to suck it up for a while longer." So then she said "NOOOoo, I want to go to St. J's! I NEED To go to St. J's etc." Whereapon my little 5 year old who attends half day Kindergarten, plays all afternoon, and has no homework, chimed in "Me tooo! I want to go to St. J's! I hate it at [local public elementary school]! All day long it is work, work, work, work, work! Just one worksheet after another after another ALL DAY LONG!" We all had to laugh. We went out for icecream to change the subject.)
On the other hand my elder DD is still absorbing the lion's share of the money, time and attention in the family, and has done so since well before the younger child came home. And frankly, there was a time when I was terrified that the younger kid would be autistic; she NEEDED the time. She too had her problems, but she also got intervention very early since I was more experienced by then. My older DD probably does feel judged and unloved from time to time. On the other hand, I consider that par for the course too with adolescence; there IS a move to conditional love from the unconditional love received by an infant. That's part of what makes you willing to defer gratification, and get to doing what you need to do, rather than what you want to do. Certainly that is how it worked for me and for my siblings. And yes, I do have a close relationship with my parents. So do they.
Hi Ramani
I would also like to add that when i was growing up i was put into private school for three years. They were both french immersion catholic schools. I learned french from scratch and had many different opportunities in them. The trouble was that i had to be bussed to them.
I yearned for the day when i could go to a local school and have daily local friends. It did come and those were the best days of my life (as a kid in school). I had pals around the neighbourhood.
You seem to have made decisions in the childrens best interests and as long as they understand this and you are taking time to understand them i think mom and daughters lives will stay on track even in the rough times.
Keep loving them lots
Colin
I had to laugh at myself last night - after all my "this is what I do, and it's working so well, and my son is doing so well" talk, I came home last night to a message from his science teacher, saying he hadn't done any homework all week! When I confronted him, he was completely unwilling to do it, because he wouldn't get any credit anyway, for turning it in late. It took him quite awhile to get that I meant it when I said he'd be doing nothing until the assignments were done, whether the teacher gives him credit or not. He was floored at the thought that I'd take off work and come get him, rather than let him do the Friday movie with the afterschool program - but he eventually did believe me, and buckled down and did the work. Sheesh, it's always something, they're always testing, and "everything's going great" never lasts too long!
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From what you've told us so far, it is clear that what is going on with your child is NOT normal and that she probably has some significant problems that do require professional intervention. This help can also help you develop appropriate and effective parenting strategies. I'd suggest you find a therapist who works primarily with adopted and foster children. You can fins such a person in your region on the website, [url]www.attach.org[/url]
Getting help now is very important. The types of problems you are describing do not get better on their own...the problems get worse...so for your child's and family's sake, I'd really urge you to find a good therapist ASAP.
A good book to look at while you are getting therapy set up is, Parening With Love and Logic (or Parenting Teens with Love & Logic) both by Foster Cline and Jim Fay.
Regards
I am myself a physician, although not specialized in psychiatry. The child's aunt is a neurologist. The child's present symptoms do not meet DSM IV diagnostic criteria for reactive attachment syndrome, oppositional defiant disorder, ADD/ADHD, or post-traumatic stress syndrome at this time. (The two psychologists I spoke with at my workplace's EAP program agree with this assessment. ) I have reviewed all the studies on attachment therapy which are available. There is a great deal of bad research available on the web; mostly studies without controls, but the ones with decent statistical designs - my masters is in epidemiology - suggest that there is little to no long term effectiveness to attachment therapy over more normal forms of therapy, and that there appears to be a real danger of implanting false memories and creating problems where there were none before. (As you know, counselling in the aftermath of the September 11th disaster, was found to make people worse, not better.) Since attachment therapy is considered both dangerous and questionably effective, we have decided to avoid it at this time. We have not made any decision about pursueing conventional psychological intervention.
I looked into the Catholic and Lutheran schools some more. Both have serious drug problems (per the police officer who took my police report), and have no perimeter control per my direct observation. In both cases, young men with no connection to the schools and dressed in gang bandannas (Lutheran school), and with piercings and tattoos (Catholic school) were playing basketball with the middle school kids in the aftercare of both schools when I went round on Friday to inspect. The aftercare supervisor appeared to be limiting her supervision to the elementary aged kids. I discussed military schools with the police officer, who said that in general kids at this level of misbehavior tend to come back from military school worse, not better behaved than before. I have therefore taken that option off the table for now, and will leave her in her current placement, which while fairly free has excellent perimeter control due to its extensive grounds, and alert staff. Strangers are _immediately_ accosted in her current school (and also in the local public middle school.)
I had a serious talk with my daughter over the weekend, and it seems that in addition to the people whom I found out about, she has been communicating with a 27 year old in Las Vegas, Nevada, who has been periodically asking her to call him in the middle of the night on the house phone, and who apparently has been doing this for some months. The period of time corresponds quite well to the period of time that we've been having significant difficulty with her; the first half of this school year, I thought we had it made. I have therefore filed a police report on the 27 year old, had the policeman taking the report discuss the dangers of child abduction with her; (remember this is a child who has no access to TV and so the concept of sexual predator was a new one to her); cancelled our home Internet service, and put a block on outgoing long-distance calls on the house phones. I have also spoken to the middle school director at her school, who has agreed to ban her from the computer room save for her computer class. He has also agreed to speak to the classmate who has been obtaining private email accounts for her, as this could only have been done by lying about age. My daughter didn't herself know how to obtain a private free email account.
We also had some serious conversations on the subjects of our relationships with God, sexuality as a sacrament limited to the marriage bond, the nature of sin, and the meaning of repentence. She appeared to be beginning to understand that what she is engaging in is not minor naughtiness. (Clearly we should have been engaging in this sort of conversation before, but while we are Catholic, we are converts from the Episcopal church, and Anglicans tend to get embarassed when talking about God, and tend to leave this to the sunday school and pulpit. Unfortunately, this weakness is shared by Episcopalian sunday schools and priests, which is one of the reasons we converted earlier this year.) In all frankness, I think we would do best to treat this as a religious, moral and a security issue rather than to go the therapeutic route. But thanks for the advice.
Dear R,
While I would not comment on what is or is not the diagnosis of your child, her behavior is not normal and will not respond to "rational" dialogue...much as we might wish that were so. If the psychologists you brought her to have extensive training and experience (over 25% of their practice) in working with adopted and foster children with attachment difficulties, then I'd accept their conclusions. If they have not had specific training in this area, and do not have at least 25 % of their practice in this area, then I'd take their assessment with a large grain of salt. (The 25 % figure is the one used by most MBHO's, along with specific training in such an area, to qualify as competant in a specific and specialized area of treatment).
I don't know what studies you are referring to. I do know that there are incompetant therapists around, just as there are a number of physicians who committ malpractice. Just because a physician has killed his patients (in my area that was Dr. Pignataro), does not mean all physicians are incompetant.
I am aware of several well designed studies publishsed in peer reviewed journals clearly showing that attachment-based treatment is effective. In fact, it is the only evidence-based treatment with proven efficacy for Reactive Attachment Disorder. In our research with a "usual care group" we had clinically and statistically significant improvments over one year after treatment ended while the usual care group had not change. A summary of the study in on our website. You have obviously not reviewe our study or several others, so you could not have, "reviewed all the studies on attachment therapy which are available."
Not only is there long term effectiveness, but it is the only effective treatment for RAD. Usual treatment is ineffective. Attachment-based treatment, such as Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy is not dangerous as you mistakenly state.
If your daughter does not have RAD then such treatment would not be indicated, but you definately need to get her intensive treatment ASAP as her behavior is quite abnormal and will not respond, in any long-term meaningful way, to having a talk with her.
Best of luck to you and your family
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Your search was obviously incomplete and inaccurate. If you go to my website you will find a list of protocoals and citations and you will also find a summary of our outcome study using a "usual care" comparison group.
It is important for families to know that there is help available for thier children with Reactive Attachment Disorder and that such help is evidence-based, effective, and appropriate. It is equally important for them to know that such treatment as family therapy, play therapies, traditional RTC's and such are ineffective for such children.
Our treatment has been reviewed by the medical directors and treatment committees' of many local, regional, and national HMO's and insurance companies and has been found to be effective and efficient care for such children...and we all know how difficult HMO's can be...so when many have come to this conclusion after a careful review of all available evidence in the literature, that is clearly a powerful endorcement. Their reviews were comprehensive and through.
Regards,
If you'd like a listing of my peer-reviewed publications you could have found it on my website. Maybe if you'd looked carefully, you'd have seen that along with a LONG list of literature and citations of treatment protocoals on the efficacy of treatment.
Attachment disorders have been a part of the main stream literature since John Bowlby published his works in the 1940's. Mary Main and others at UC Berkely extended the work of Mary Ainsworth on attachment to include definative evidence that the parent's state of mind with respect to attachment is the best predictor of a child's pattern and style of attachment.
Implications of current research on brain development and attachment for treatment are described in great detail in such texts as The Handbook of Attachment, Infant Mental Health, and Treating Trauma (2003 by ed by Siegel et. al.). Many of your "citations" are off point, one describes a treatment method that, really, no reputable therapist would use...no one uses forced restraint...at least no reputable therapist in the main stream of attachment research and treatment, and a number of the others are irrelvant.
Given your adament postings I can only assume that you may have had some problematic experience. If so, I am truly sorry. There are disreputable practitioiners around as there are in all fields.
I wish you luck and hope things work out for you and your family.