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uh uh, were in big stuff here.
our seven yr old was put on clonidine to calm him down so they could properly dx him. the clonidine worked great, he was on it for about two weeks and we noticed a big difference. but he started to get night terrors so we took him off.
as he was weening off the clonidine, he became extrememly angry, the tantrums started all over again, he started to bite and physically assault us and his 5 yr old brother. (again, but worse)
it was horrible, we had to seperate them for fear of safty. we called the emergency room, but they said just bring him in, i told them there is no way he will get in the car. THen the said call an ambulance, which i should of done, but instead, i just sat with him, till he calmed down.
we called the social worker and asked if maybe he should be placed in a residential program for a couple of weeks until they find the right med because he not only is assaultive, he also was playing a game with his younger brother and he said, "lets build a truck and then we can run over daddy", which of course got me quite concerned. He had kicked his door in and broke it and then i heard him talk to his brother about when he gets in trouble to wear his shoes so he can break the door in also. His brother said no, he didnt want to do that. We are both starting to question if we can handle this child. from what we were told, the child was doing fine for the last two yrs in foster care (which, dont get me started on that foster mother)
the social worker and her supervisor came by the other night, she realizes that he is diffulcult, but she stated you cannot admit a child to find what meds work. she said we were doing a great job and this is the first time he is able to get out all his frustations and anger out because he feels safe enough. Well, im not sure if his brother is safe enough. I can handle this child write now, hes 7, but he will get older and get stronger, which makes us worried.
the psych just put him on ritalin and prozac on saturday, (he is on the lowest dose of both right now) the report from school is that he appears to be doing better, he takes the ritalin in the AM and last dose at 12pm. since these meds, he seems more hyper then ever, around bedtime, he is wide awake and doesnt fall asleep until 10:00-10:30, which his bedtime before was around 8:00-8:30.
i realize, the ritalin gets out of the system fast, if this is the case, then why is he so hyped up at night. I have never seen him this hyped up. We have not had a tantrum since these new meds, but we are handling him with extreme caution to prevent a tanturm. He will not walk anywhere, he runs and then bangs into things and then falls down and starts crying, but then up again, and does his running thing. He gets tons of exercise, we play 'chase each other around the house' just to tire him out, but no luck.
so now were wondering what is going on.
any suggestions on any meds that might work? the clonidine was working great except the nightterrors. I called the doctor, and she said she will look into it something like the clonidine.
dadfor2
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I hope things continue to stay peaceful. I would be concerned about the cat comment and keep a close eye on him around animals(and his brother as he might set him up to do his dirty work. Big frothers kind of do that anyway, but whn there are other issues, better safe than sorry).
Rad therapy and regular therapy won't work together as they contradict each other. I really hope this all works out for you, but I'm glad you're standing your ground and letting people know what your limits are up front. I wish more parents would do that.
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hi all and lucyjoy,
well, he seems to be holding up. We came up with starting the day over, he hasnt yet really given a full out tantrum. He woke up in a mood this morning and very demanding. nothing was good enough.
Then we talked and we decided to start the day over, and he responded well to that. So i gave him a hug.
However, the 5 yr old, he was just so miseralble last night while i was trying to put them to bed. I was alone last night, and i hate being alone with the two of them, talk about work getting two kids to bed when theres only one of you. I hate feeling that anxious.
I think he just wanted alone time because when i started to read to him, the 7 yr old got out of his bed and wanted to read another story too. So i said ok, he can join us then the 5 yr old said "no he cant, i want him to leave...etc." then came the meltdown of the 5 yr old, but the seven yr old held it together.
sometimes i question my parenting skills to be honest, sometimes i think i cant do this thing. i am reading the love and logic book im hoping this will help, most of the books i read thus far hasnt helped, and believe me, i read alot of them....AHHHH!!!!
there is one concern i have, we talked to the RAD therpay guy and he said you need to be really clear that your going to keep him before you start this type of therapy. It makes alot of sence. so now were not sure what were going to do still.
it was so funny last night, i made a major mistake because i was so tired and so frustrated getting these kids to bed that i said in a very weak moment. "maybe im not a good parent and i cant take care of you" at that time, i was feeling it, but i shouldnt of said that.
then the 7 yr old tried to console me...."you are a good parent, we will listen, im sorry, you are a good daddy, your my forever daddy..." etc. I was dying inside, im thinking, "what did i do, what did i say" thats all he needs to hear is that he might not be with us forever. I cant beieve this kid had to console his daddy, whats wrong with this picture.
hey, two steps forward, one step back. oh well, im glad this is annoymous, so i can write this stuff down....lol. So goes on the struggle. Im actually thinking of hiring someone to come and help me put these kids to bed at night when i have to be by myself. I cant believe im even thinking about it, but its so diffulcult putting two kids to bed with their issues at the same time.
does anyone have suggestions on putting two kids to bed when theres only one of you?
dadfor2
HI dadfor2!
I have not posted in a while. I have three children from Russia and our boys had very similar issues. My oldest had been diagnosed with RAD, PTSD, ADHD, FASD, etc. etc.
I had to put him on Risperadol also for the mood swings and rages. Out of the blue, anything would trigger him off into either an angry rage....I have multitudinous holes in his bedroom door........or the most hyper jumping on my bed etc.
To make a long story short, I have been busy having the children tested for food allergies and vitamin/mineral deficiencies. Ya know what! All three had issues.
We started therapy with supplements and low and behold the rages stopped. Needless to say, I was able to get him off of the risperadol and my daughter off of adderall. They are both on a regimen of vitamins/minerals to heal a 'leaky gut'. This means that they were experiencing malabsorption. They were not getting enough nutrients no matter what they ate. I have also found out what foods made them go bonkers!!!
I am not saying that this is for everyone. But I went the same route as you are heading and after one year the risperadol began not to work. It was either up the dose or find something else. My husband and I were totally worn out from before and we just could not see going through it again. Yet upping the meds was not actually solving the problem. Sometimes you need the bandaid in order to regroup and think, however, it is still a bandaid.
We now see an attachment therapist once a week. Turns out my daughters ODD was due to the adderall. No adderall, no ODD! My oldest has not had a meltdown in over a month and the little guy is just now starting to get closer to his brother.
Just saying this is an option. Have you considered having them tested to see if they have these types of issues? If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
The best of luck to you! I hope you find your answer!
Sue
Dadfor2,
I had to laugh just a little at your tale today, it just sounds like normal parenting frustration to me. I remember getting my two boys to bed at night and they are 6 years apart. It was often a job but one when accomplished felt like a huge relief.
I think I envisioned parenting to be so much easier, I didn't anticipate the complexities of each individual child or gaining the skill of balancing myself between two, and later on three.
What I do now and have had good luck with is arranging a special night each week for each one to spend time with me alone, just the two of us. And since each child gets their fair share and their special night, they are much better about sharing me and don't feel slighted.
For instance if it is B's night, R must occupy himself and respect this time if he expects to have his quality time alone with mom. I also explained to them that with mom having to spread herself between three, that all other nights were equal for all and if something came up during that time they could save it for their special night.
As they have grown, we have extended this to outings and various projects and it works. As story time went, we had some nights that were story nights and some that were mom nights...lol! But every one took their turn in choosing what story and thats how it was.
I have also found that a good reward system works and kids really do want to please and they respond well to definite rules and boundaries. Consistency is what makes it work.
If you are reading numerous books and trying too many different things, this can exhaust you and confuse them. Just claim your home Dad, make a set of rules and rewards, divey up chores and what is to be earned. Earning things enables children to gain self esteem and self control.
Parenting any children is work and sometimes a challenge but it sounds normal to me over there and I think you are doing a good job!
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I hestitate to post here, having had no experience with RAD or ADHD or any other disorders of this kind at home, so throw out what I'm about to say if it doesn't apply. I did raise four sons, so I do have that kind of experience!
Your two are probably close enough in age to be interested in the same stories. I would set their bedtime to be the same and begin reading at whatever time you decide. Have a clock where all of you can see it and make sure everyone knows when bedtime is. All toothbrushing etc. is done before stories begin and there is no more rough housing or bedtime moves up accordingly. The boys (and you) can take turns choosing the books to be read. When the last story is finished, tuck both boys into bed, one at a time, youngest first or alternate nights with them for the order. If you do bedtime prayers, the three of you can pray together, especially when you are the only adult. Since you cannot make them sleep, as lucyjoy said earlier, bedtime means simply that. They need to be in their rooms (suggest beds!) and can "read" picture books to themselves or their stuffed animals, but your time with them has ended for the day unless there is a fire, flood, vomit, or blood! If they are "reading", there should be a lamp close to their beds which they can turn off (to tell quiet or ghost stories to the animals?) when they are ready. If they don't turn it off, you can always do so later.
Mine all shared rooms, so they would talk until they fell asleep, a bonding time for them, but with separate rooms, I would suggest they read to the animals. Suggest, in a low voice yourself, that they read quietly so the animals can fall asleep more easily, but don't tell them to turn off the lights at any particular time. If the boys seem to get louder than you can ignore or they complain about each other's volume (or lack of musical talent if they choose to sing to the animals), explain that if they cannot make this work, they will both simply have to go to bed without lamps in their rooms.
Just a suggestion, for what it's worth. Golly, I kinda miss those days!
Blessings to all of you.
Hey dad!
it's me agian - radiodoll. i always look for your post.
NPR radio did an amazing story last week regarding misdiagnosis of ahdh in kids - kids that should have been diagnosed as bipolar (manic depressive) and the fact that most children are treated with the wrong drugs becasue of the misdiagnosis. Apparently, sometimes the adhd drugs actually trigger episodes, etc.
You might check the NPR website or call the station nearest you to get the audio. You can do that for a small fee. Or it might actually be posted. The story may have been part of a week long look ad adhd in kids. ask them.
I will senfd some prayers. hang in there. you're the best.
Radiodoll
hi radiodoll, long time no hear.
hi julie, thanks for the info, we actually did that, but they dont share a room.
the funny thing, i have no problem getting them intheir beds. Theproblem is leaving the bedroom
the seven yr old is petrified to stay by himself and wants one of us to sleep with him till he falls asleep. We have discussed during one of our family meetings what they wanted to do for bedtime to make it easier. Of course they said what we do already, except instead of one story, they want two....lol
But i dont know how to leave the seven yr old when he is petriied.
then comes the five yr old, he wants you to stay with him till he falls asleep, just because. If you get up he starts screaming and tantruming.
they both want to sleep in our bed, but if i put them in our bed together...well, the playing starts all over again.
last night was the same thing, our family meeting didnt work...lol. so i put them on the floor in their blankets (sleeping bags) out of sight from each other, and they fell asleep within 15 min.....then when we went to bed, we just brought them to their rooms.
maybe thats what we have to do for a while. I just wish they would stay in their rooms, we dont force them to sleep, we just want them to stay in their rooms alone. IT just aint happening....lol
dadfor2
To respond to your question. No, you should not do traditional therapies and "RAD" therapies at the same time. No one has two therapists. The therapist you see to address the attachment difficulties, if well trained and credentialed, will provide appropriate treatment for your family and training in attachment-based parenting for you. If other treatment is needed for other issues beyond that therapists expertise, s/he will work with you to figure out the best way to address those needs and the timing involved. The therapist should be your central point person since until the attachment issues are resolved, a lot of other things cannot be resolved.
regards,
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Hmmm! How about telling them that you have to leave their rooms so that you can have some time alone to bake cookies, cake or pie for the next day, clean the spider webs out of the garage, attic, or basement for their protection, or that you need to disassemble, repair, ansd reassemble the furnace? In other words, I don't know how to get you out of their rooms unless you can come up with a reason of which they approve! You can just leave, locking them inside their rooms, and leaving them to get over it, maybe with some music playing quietly? It does appear to be a case of manipulation, and I would not fall for it. They just want to keep you hopping. Tell them that you are exhausted and need the time alone to recuperate so that you can continue to be the awesome parent they are so fortunate to have! Just remember who's in charge!
Blessings to you and your little ones.
thanks julie,
i wish it was that easy. My 7 yr old is definitly petrified, he has nightmares at 10pm and 3pm. His fears are real, not minupulation. As for the 5 yr old, he is totally manipulating...lol.
But his screaming drives me through the roof. But i do have good news. I talked to the day care and asked if they can not have him nap in the afternoon. They agreed, I told them that he needs 10hrs of sleep at night, which he can do, but with no nap.
It seems he has been napping at preschool and then wide awake when he gets home, so the last few nights have been pretty good, I still get the yelling, but at least its only taking him 1/2 hour to get to sleep vs 3 hours to get to sleep....lol.
as i put in my earlier posts about my 7 yr old, over the last week, he has been asking for "hug and KIss" vs "hug". He likes to kiss me on the cheek every morning. I cant believe it!!!
Im looking at progress not perfection...lol. Anyway, slowly but surely he seems to be adjusting, his tantrums have quieted down since the admission to the hospital, and even though he still gets angry and threatens me, he seems to pull him self together, and after he goes through what he gets through, he wants me to hold him for a little while.
anyway, i just thought id give an update on whats been going on with him. I think these meds are helping him, he seems to be doing much better. Again, progress, not perfection....lol
dadfor2
dad
the poor baby is still having nightmares??
are you setting you alarm and twenty minutes
before he screams , wake him gently..then tell him to go back
to sleep.
he is on the wrong sleep pattern
when you wake him gently ..he will get back on track
worked for me
my little girl used to wake screaming and hold her hands
in front of her face and hide in the corner
yelling "everyone leave me alone, get away"
it was really spooky...
i called the dr and they told me to do this
after three nights ..it never happened again.
Re dadfor 2's 5 year old whose nightime screaming is manipulative. We went through that too. The younger of our two, age 3, was having terrible nightmares, screaming and taking a long long time to calm down. After a few days of watching me rock and cuddle him after a nightmare, his sister, 4, began having nightmares too. But hers just didn;t seem "right" so I began checking carefully. She always screamed about 10 minutes after the lights in our room went out and her heart was never pounding or her breathing fast as his was. So I confronted her with faking it and told her I knoew she just wanted extra cuddles like her brother was getting. I promised her that if she'd stop faking the ightmares, I'd find time for "extra hugs" whenever she felt she needed them. For the first several days, she asked every hour or so. sometimes I had to tell her she'd have to wait, but I gave her a timer so she'd know how long it would be. After a couple of weeks she only asked once a week or so and seemed much calmer overall.
All that cuddling that most babies get when they are tiny is what the RAD kids missed that contributed to making them the way they are.
We also went through a simnilar scenario with her faking bedwetting too.
Keep us posted on your kid's progress.
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A friend of mine has a step daughter who was diagnosed with ADHD earlier this year. Her doctor put her on Strattera which helped greatly, but caused weight loss. She contacted her doctor who then prescribed Mirtazapine at bed time...........this has worked wonderfully! Her mood has improved 100% she is staying more focused at school and she is getting along with her siblings a lot better. The only adjustments they have had to make so far this school year was to increase the Strattera a few milligrams. You may want to ask your doctor about these medications to see if your child may be able to take these. I wish you the best of luck. Please let me know the results :)