Moving right along!

We received the same form letter in Jan. 2003 along with a U.S. Dept. of Justice publication titled, "The Immigration of Adopted and Prospective Adoptive Children," publication M-249 (Revised September 2000)N. Note the definition of "orphan" on p. 44. This is what you agency will have to verify (that the "sole" (birthfather "unknown") or "surviving" (birthfather deceased) parent irrevocably released the child....If the birthfather was just unaware of a pending adoption, the birthmother is not a "sole" OR "surviving" parent, and therefore unable to make that decision alone.) I spoke with an INS person last year who reiterated that this is where the hangup often is with ALL international adoptions, making the children ineligible for immigration to the US. So, not to worry. This form letter is the US Embassy "just doing their job." :D Rebecca

I hadn't seen you post in a while, so I figured you had decided to go forth with the 2 children that were referred to you from Guatemala (do I have the country right?)?? If you don't mind me asking, what happened with the situation in Guatemala? I figured you'd go that route for sure.... but shows you what I know!!! GREAT NEWS ABOUT GETTING THINGS SQUARED AWAY IN PANAMA, of course!!! I guess you're on your way!!! As for the letter from the Embassy.... That is a STANDARD comment by the Embassy..... in fact...... our homestudy was returned to us initially because the social worker HAD TO INCLUDE something to the effect of (I have this saved): "I advised the family of the financial obligations, expenses involved, the delays and difficulties involved in an international adoption." Also added to our homestudy, by request of the embassy, was: "I APPROVE OF THIS FAMILY for adoption" (must have the word "approve" in there somewhere). It ALSO had to include a statement by the social worker verifying that the issue of drug and alcohol abuse was thoroughly discussed and that neither adoptive parent had a history of such use. THIS by the EMBASSY (not the social worker, not the courts).... so, needless to say, I informed all of my friends adopting who hadn't reached that stage yet..... BY THE WAY: For anyone who has read my previous posts.... the person who PERSONALLY delayed our adoption process by TWO MONTHS (which was a HUGE deal at the time - long story) because of her her MISSTEP and then LIE to cover it up, IS...... LET ME REPEAT....... "IS" STILL EMPLOYED AT THE CONSULATE and is still working in the area where your adoption paperwork WILL go through..... so be warned. The best advise I can give you is to KILL THEM WITH KINDNESS and "empathy" for their "oh so difficult and stressful jobs/lives"... .. and smile even when you want to spit nails..... :) ~k.

Hi Kirsten, congratulations on your approval! I'm still right behind you, so maybe we'll hear something about approval soon. I also received the same letter. It seemed like a standard issue, "beware, adoption is not for the timid!" kind of thing to me. But of course we already knew that, didn't we? Joan

I am a little confused. The DNA sends you a notice that you have approval and can get a referral, or the DNA contacts your agency and than contacts you? I thought all matches were made in the DNA? I believe you guys are working with World Partners, did they say you have to have approval by the DNA and than the agency can assist in matching, or you need approval of the DNA to get a match within the DNA? See what I mean, confusing. I am working with CAI and have not heard about DNA approval notice, has anyone else working with CAI? We do know our dossier is in the DNA. I was just wondering what WP has said about referrals and the DNA. TanyaB

One more question for the World Partner bunch. You said your agency has given out three referrals. Have they all brought their children home yet? Do you know how long they waited from referral to travel? T

Tanya, the referrals for WPA folks were fairly recent, so no one is home yet. If I remember correctly, the first referral was received around October, and the others more recently. Joan

Sorry, about the delay in responding- I've been doing some serious business travel these days... As many have pointed out, I figured the Embassy letter was standard procedure for Panama. I was more impressed with the fact that they were organized enough to even send a letter. We did not receive a letter from the embassy in our previous country. So all in all, it was a good sign. Yah, we decided to stick with Panama as Guatemala is just so scary these days. I know it looks like things are picking up recently, but with the possible adoption law looming, I just didn't have it in me to face the risk. We are going on two years, 6 lost/declined referrals, 4 dossiers, 6 different medical forms etc. so I'm ready for something relatively straightforward. About the DNA Approval process and the agencies role in the referral process........ My understanding is that there are two avenues for getting referrals. First, you submit your dossier to the DNA who has to review it and approve you to adopt. After you receive the approval from the DNA, they will work to match you with a child who matches your profile. At the same time, you can have a private attorney work with individual orphanages to secure a referral. If your attorney finds a match, it is submitted to the DNA for approval and processing. Of course I've simplified the process, but it appears that no matter which route is taken- the DNA has to eventually approve your dossier so it's seems best to go ahead and get the approval early in the process. Our agency pursues both the DNA originated matching process and outside private attorneys to search the orphanages. So, it could feasibly speed up the referral time frame since we have a couple different avenues. I'm not sure how the DNA notifies the agency of approvals, but I know our agency has a master spreadsheet of the Panama adoptions in process that is updated weekly by their Latin American coordinator. That is how I found out we had received approval from the DNA. Everyone's progress is monitored via this spreadsheet as information comes into the agency. It's kind of nice to know exactly where you are in the process. It helps set reasonable expectations. Kirsten

Great explanation, Kirsten. This is exactly what we're doing, too. (Attorney & orphanage volunteer located the children, but we're still letting the DNA look for a match, too, in case the children we found are not found to be "inhabilitados" (legally available for adoption). As far as how the DNA notifies the family that a match has been made (IF the DNA makes the match), I think they do this through the attorney handling the family's case (for the agency). The DNA will NOT give info out to anyone other than the attorney that you gave "Power of Attorney" to (I found this out from personal experience). So it's my guess that the agency's attorney checks on all of his/her agency cases at once, then reports back to the agency...which eventually trickles down to the families. The DNA director had told me last summer that our first attorney was not being "pendiente" and that we should hire another attorney. (I looked up that word in my Spanish dictionary, and it means "earring" or "hanging/dangling"---which I think means that he wasn't checking on our case often enough.) So my guess is that ageny attorneys visit the DNA alot to check on their families' cases. ;) Rebecca -adopting indy since Jan. 2003 -dossier to Panama, Jan. 2003 -dossier submitted to DNA, June 2003 -children located, July 2003 -abandonment investigation nearly complete, Dec. 2003 -abandonment legal hearing (us matched with kids), expected Jan. 2004 -travel, expected Jan. 2004

Dear all. I have just retruned from panama. I travled there lastw eeka nd returned on Dec 23, 2003. While In Panama I was lucky and made an appontment with Mr. George Suhr and his assistant. I was able to get an appointment thru hard work and a few phone calls. I also received a letter and since I was in Panama to visist the child we have identified in our " Private " adoption process I went to see him. Mr. suhr was very polite, met with us for a few minutes and then directed us to his assistant. She is a Panamanian and yes has alot of power and control of the process. She was very direct and yes very sure of the hurdles we would ahve to complete. She indicated that many people show up with children referred by adoption agencies and the children have not been released as " Aoptable". She said that is the hardest problem and gave me a list of items that were her " Minimums" or documents she needed. Long and short was yes she sent me the letter and yes said that after a Panama court had accepted us as adoptable parents and after a panama court had accepted the child as adoptable or released and after the Panama court had given approvale for us to adopt our identified child ... Then she woould start the process to verify it was legal, verify the child was not "stolen" out of a family and verify it met the medical reuirements she would process our papers. She indicated it would take her office and Mr. Suhr about 4 to 12 weeks, then it would be fforwarded to the embassy for a visa. The mebassy will assign the child a approved doctor at the local hospital in Panama city and we could begin the medical review...if all went well that offcie of the Consulat will finalize the papers and send them for a visa issuance. Yes be very polite, very calm, and when in Panama they have a saying If the door is open - go thru it dont ask to many questions and never losse you temper or put off the opportunity to go thru that open door. Yes its a beautiful country with great people, and yes many children, but the process is long, slow and complicated. The child we identified was 8 days old when we started, she is now 5 months old, and the paperwork and social worker review to declare her adoptable have only been started. have a good time, and keep the faith. It will work out slowlwy. I have done ALL the paperwork myslef with only a few hours of attoirney toime in both panama and the USA. It can be done, but yes a Panama Attoreny is a must. Be very careful and do not be to open with details until your find some you trust. My attorney is a corporate attorney I met in my travles to Panama and she is helping my wife and I in her spare time as she does not practice law for openb clients, only for her corporation. She is genuine, very sweet and evry helpful. Have a nice time. Yes I have traveld to many areas of panama since 2000, and yes have many insights if anyone wonders. Im in Virginia.

Hello to the Panama group- a couple of you have been most helpful as I have been trying to recover from that disaster with IAR. Are any of you going to an orphanage for your child?? We are , but it sounds as if many of you are doing something else. This business of immigration is worrying me- my lawyer tells me the DNA will only offer children from this orphanage that have the abandonment process complete-- any one have words of wisdom on that!! y

Y, I am in a similar situation with IAR. The message I sent explains my situation. I would appreciate any help, support, suggestion. Thanks, Dan