Birthmom wants her children to visit my adopted Son

I haven't replied in awhile, but stumbled across this thread. I am in absolute agreement, as an adult adoptee, in everything spaypets has said here. I truthfully don't see the other argument as valid. Rasinette said... "I agree with your stance, however, I just don't think it's the norm as so many want to believe, that parents lie and deceive just to get a child. In most cases, the birthfamily has interfered with parenting, or set an inappropriate example that they are not willing to change. While I'm certain an abrupt change is difficult and hurtful to the birthfamily, they should always assume the parents are making choices in the best interest of the child. If they do not believe this, it will haunt them even more so." I don't know that anyone here has a "stance" at all. What we have is experience, both personal and learned. (largely from being long time readers here) MY experience has NOT demonstrated a majority of birthparents interfering with parenting. Rather, discomfort and/or a change of heart on the part of an a-parent. Not being able to create and stick to boundaries isn't a case of birthparents interfering, as is often stated. To effectively parent, we need to find the strength to do the things that are uncomfortable, but necessary. Not just for our child, (adopted or not) but for our own moral character. THAT is what is best for our children. Walking away is cowardly. Debi PS This is NOT actually about this situation presented by puppies, it is about the discussion that ensued as a result. Puppies, I am sure, will do the right thing! :)

It is sad that "missing link"cannot engage in dialogue without condescending barbs directed to those that she may not agree with. The only reason that I joined in this thread was because of the anger and condemnation directed toward Puppies. We are supposed to be there to support each other, not browbeat those who seek our counsel. There are two sides to every story. The birthmom is not always in the right or vice versa. You assumed that Puppies was reneging on her agreement. She told you what the agreement was between her and the bmom. The bmom, according to Puppies, said that her wish was to see the baby two or three times the first year if that much. Since we only have Puppies side of the story to go on, I think that we have to give advice based on the information we have been given. So many assumptions have been made based on no other than the fact that the amom has to be victimising the bmom,as if there can be no other senerio. We can't assume that one party is always the perpetrator and one always the victim. Puppies is obviously afraid and should be given our counsel without fear of being demonized. I think that I need to respond to "missing link's" concern about my information coming from "Lifetime TV". I can honestly say that I have never even had my TV tuned into the Lifetime station. I am a successful, college educated, mother, wife, woman, and basically well rounded and content human being. I had a teenage pregnancy and had the wisdom at that young age to ask myself what would be in the best interest of this individual that I was caring inside me. I felt this child was worthy of the best beginning in life that I was humanly capable of giving her. I also decided that I would make a new start for myself. Through determination and hard work, I have managed to have a great life. Not perfect, but wonderful none the less. I made my decisions for my baby thinking only about what would be best for her and never considered my feelings at any time. I did not feel sorry for myself and have never looked back and second guessed my decision. I am secure in the knowledge that I did a totally unselfish act based on love for a human being that I may never even get a chance to meet. I would love to meet her someday which is why I am in this forum in the first place. I have put my information out there if she wants to find me. It is entirely her decision. I will not seek her out, but I will make it easy for her to find me if she chooses. That too, I decided even as a pregnant teenager. God has blessed me and I have been willing to accept his blessings. We should be there to support, not to judge each other. Amoms and bmoms alike. We have the love of our children in common. Warmest regards, W

I am confused....you say we should support one another in the same post you totally slam missing link. Just how is this support thing supposed to work? Most of us "old timers" realized a long time ago that support takes many forms......not just agreeing and stroking. Thank goodness, or I wouldn't have learned half of what I have on these forums! There are numerous opinions available here....how they are offered varies greatly. More importantly, there are numerous ways to take things, personally is just one way. Reading this thread makes me believe that puppies was offered support of many kinds. To remind someone of a promise made isn't an automatic assumption that the person will break the promise, is it? Sometimes our fears overtake us momentarily, and our true friends will put us back on the right path. At least that is what I count on my true friends to do. Those who would support my bad decisions aren't really helping me, IMO. Ah well, I hope you find what you need here on there forums. Debi ps...I have engaged in many dialogs with missing.......I hope you will too!

yssasa, we (adoptees) are not a 'gift'. That sounds belittleing to what actually took place when a biological mother makes the decision to relinquish her child, and it is incorrect to call a person a gift. It isn't as if she just handed a present to someone. IMO asking if her children can visit her bson is CERTAINLY not a reason to 'cut off all contact until.....' That is horrible to say the least. I do not understand this kind of mentality at all. Debsdone, missing , and Spaypets, I totally agree with your posts. ~Julie

Debsdone said: You are so right!!!! True education, in any form, consists of stretching the mind...not necessarily validating what we think know. It was my understanding that Puppie's original post was asking for feedback, not simply validation. Yssasa ~ Trying to express my thoughts on your totally demeaning post would be like nailing Jell-O to a tree. CO-PARENTING??? That's hardly the issue. I'm sorry your narrow view of birthmothers has you in the mindset that we are such losers. ~D

In response to Yssasa's post, I'd like to say that I'm surely grateful that I didn't grow up in a home where my parents' had preconceived notions and judgmental attitudes about birthmothers, and so little understanding of the nature of adoption.

wdalaya I've been reading through the posts and I have to tell you how much I admire how you handle and continue to handle the decision you made to place your child. I'm the mom of a 14 year old who was adopted at birth. His birthmother chose us, and we brought our son home within a week of his birth, so things happened very quickly. We all informally agreed to keep things open. Unfortuntely, her behavior very quickly became such that we eventually ended contact. I still regret that things didn't work out, but I would have no second thoughts about doing the same thing again-- that is, denying access to our family to anyone including birthmother, birthfather, adoptive relatives, and friends if I felt that my child's wellbeing was in jeopardy by contact with that individual. That said, I certainly don't agree with someone promising a birthmother certain things only to "get" a baby and then going back on their word once things were final. Anyway, back to you-- I think you've certainly taken the high road and the most difficult road, that is, thinking ONLY of your child and what was best for that child. You trusted the adopted parents to love and care for your child and then stepped back to allow that to happen. I REALLY hope that, by the time my son decides to search for his birthmother, if he does, she will have done a turnaround and become someone he can be proud of as I'm sure your birthchild will be some day when you meet.

Well said, ACR!

I am neither a bmom or amom at this point, so though I'll never be thought of as a neutral party (since we are starting the road to adoption), I'm hoping that my 2 cents is accepted as just that! I'd like to comment on the issue of being a "bad influence" or "example"... As a parent, aren't you responsible for the environment in which your child grows? If you had a sibling (your child's aunt or uncle) who was high on drugs everytime they came over...or drunk, would you allow that person, even though your own blood, to be around your child? Let's not even consider that that person would physically harm your child....what if a neighbor who was "watching" your child while you worked had sex in front of your child, or watched pornography or had pornographic material (not even child pornography) laying around...would you want your child around this person? Of course not! That person would be a "bad example" to you child... Or how about someone that constantly lies? Do you want your child to grow up thinking it's ok? The point I'm making is that there ARE reasons to protect your child from people you consider to be "bad examples". I can't point my finger at any specific occurrence that I've read here about a bmom or bfamily that became a "bad" enough example for aparents to need to withdraw from the agreed visitations, but unfortunately, I have a very vivid imagination and can imagine where that need may arise.

I see both points, but I think the list of things that parents do not want their children around are more extensive than substance abuse and physical harm. I also think it might depend on how open the adoption is. For instance, are you only meeting one or two times a year for an hour or so, or are you seeing each other every week for several hours? For instance, we saw our child's birthfamily every week for several months, then it was every other week, etc. In that time, we got to know them very well, talk about information overload. Now, I don't mean that ugly, but they are actually very different people than what they originally presented to be to us. During this time they slipped up on things they had previously lied to us about, as well as bashing the birthfather in front of our daughter. Which, granted, she wasn't even 1, but we couldn't get it through to them that they needed to get out of that habit because we will not HEAR of letting any one bash her birthfamily in front of her. During this time we also saw how they treated each other, used each other for personal gains, and pretty much every person in their life and started to see the same pattern forming with their talk about our daughter. I think everyone has their own stories, and sides, and representations, and it would be so much simpler if there was black/white, but unfortunately it's mostly gray. Does that make sense? : )

by the way, at that point, we had only begun discussing taking the contact level down a few notches (my dh & I) when they started making threats of various natures...just so you know.

No, we are not cutting off visits altogether, just tapering them down quite a bit. But there will still be more pictures than she will know what to do with and phone calls, emails, etc. I wish that we had known that the first year was the hardest, then maybe we could have done this differently and not been where we are right now. I don't know. This actually wasn't even supposed to be an open adoption (we wanted more open than she did, which was nil), but it just kind of happened, evolved, like you said, after we brought her (the baby) home. Now, I can't stand the fact that we hurt her by letting her come over so often. However, we met with her last week, and it had been 2 months since we had seen her or talked to her and she looked better than I have ever seen her. It's such a roller coaster. Anyway, I'm rambling. : ) THANKS!

Raisinette--Since your original agreement didn't include such a high level of openess, I don't think it's a problem to scale back a little. But (pretending for a moment that there were never any threats) if you had originally promised a high level of openess and then discovered that the birth family wasn't nearly as nice as you had originally thought, then I think it's wrong to go back on the agreement, just because they are unpleasant people. My point is that aparents should be very conservative when promising openess because as people get to know each other they often discover things they don't like about each other. Aparents must be willing to stick to the agreement even if they decide they dislike the birthfamily.

If there were never any threats, but everything else was there, we would still be doing the same thing we are doing now. I don't think physical harm and substance abuse are the only things you need to protect your child from and I'm certainly not going to do so out of obligation of them being birthparents, because I would not even if it was my brother, mother, sister, etc. My mother has some issues and has threatened suicide. That is not a stable environment for my daughter and she is not allowed to stay with her alone. In my opinion, they 'breached' the agreement when they made themselves out to be something they are not and refuse to respect boundaries.

I was reading through and saw your question. I am a birthmom who has other children. I have two older children that I had to explain this situation to. They were 3 and 5 at the time. I had explained that I was having a baby for someone else, that it wasn't our baby to keep, and that she was for someone to love as much as I loved them. They actually took it well. To me, I think that an open adoption should be similar to any other kind of blended family. My daughters also had an older half-sister who lives with her mother. They look at their youngest sister (who was placed) the same way. They are siblings...who just have different families. I guess it's just in how you look at it. My girls know that she has a new mom and dad...and they love her very much.