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Ok, please tell me if I'm being too careless with my DD....
My brother's family is joining us for the Passover seder (the big meal to rember the Exodus from Egypt). They're family includes an almost 6 year old and almost 3 year old. My SIL emails me and asks if I make my charoset with wine. Charoset is a dish that is part of the ceremony. It's made with nuts, apples (or other fruit, though apples are traditional), honey, wine (Maneschevitz (sp)--not much alcohol) and cinnamon. I said yes, but that I only use a couple of tablespoons to give it the right texture -- it's supposed to symbolize the mortar used by the enslaved Israelites. Anyway I served it to DD last year, who was then 2, now 3, with no problems (although, truthfully, she might not have eaten it).
Well, she's bringing her own alcohol free (I actually thought she'd balk at the nuts -- she won't let her kids have nuts until they're 3). I have grape juice for the kids to drink during the service, but it simply never occurred to me to be worried about a tiny bit of wine in the charoset?
So here's my question--am I wrong for being unconcerned about the wine in the charoset for my dd? And while we're on the topic--at what age do you start having the children have wine at Shabbat (Sabbath) and other festivals? I _know_ that I was having wine by the time I was 6 -- what I can't remember is whether I was 4.
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I am also not Jewish, but I wouldn't worry about that little bit of wine. Heck, cough medicine probably has more alcohol in it! And like you said, so does vanilla flavoring. That teensy tinsy bit is barely going to be noticed by anyone not paying attention, and it's certainly not enough to give anyone even a buzz.
But I also wouldn't worry about someone bringing their non-alcohol version. Different strokes for different folks!
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Spay, I'd make it the traditional way, too. Hmmm, I remember reading eons ago research about cultural differences in alcoholism. Seems like rates are low for Jews and Italians. Hypothesis is that the alcohol usage is modeled by parents in healthy environment and used as part of religious ritual. Much better ideal that making it such a 'no no' that it assumes more importance/lethality than necessary.
And, Andy, ummm, the study did not include coffee spiked with blueberry liqueur.
spaypets
Shai--at what age do you think I should have my daughter have sweet wine on Shabbat?
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No longer a practicing Jew (my dad converted in the '60's, made for an interesting childhood, you should hear my Hebrew school stories at the Hasidic Yeshiva school ;) ) but we have Shabbat at our house at least once a month with good friends. I have given a sip of wine to all of my kids during the blessings and now the older ones (13 and 16 get their own glass) When those same friends were remodling we had the Seder at my house and all of the kids (including my two year old) had those teeny-tiny glasses for the ceremony. I don't believe a sip or two of wine is harmful especially at the table with family as part of a very meaningful ceremony.
My kids have been taking communion since they were about 3 and none of them is sneaking sacrimental wine. I think your SIL is a bit over the top but this is coming from a mom who allows her kids to have wine with dinner.
lisa
I went to a community Seder at Chabad. they served 4% and 6% wine. Regular is 12%! There were kids drinking it, mine drank the Kedem. They did eat the charoset however, but neither of them really like it, so just had a little tated during the seder. My kids go to a day school. I did the preparation for model seder which included charoset for 100. I used Kedem grape juice for that.
I think you need to do whatever you are comfotable in doing. During Shabbos, my kids don't do wine, but I never really gave it any thought until now!
Unless your kids would eat a bucket full of Charoseth, there would be little chance of them even getting tipsy, let alone alcohol poisoning. I would allow mine to even sip real wine for kiddush (or at the Seders) if they liked it, but mine take one whiff and make a "blech" face! LOL I agree that by not making alcohol a "forbidden fruit", it never becomes a problem. My parents always let us have wine at the table, so when my friends thought it was a big thrill to drink beer, I was unimpressed and never had any problems with drinking. I plan to do the same with our kids.
I hope that everyone had a wonderful Pesach! I am not sorry that it ends tomorrow, however. Think about it- what is matza? Flour and water. Hmmm, let's live on baked paste for a week and see how we feel... :( EWWW! LOL)
Kelly
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Wanted to add my two cents.
While I do not practice any traditions now, I just love Passover!! And as far as when to start allowing wine, I couldn't tell you how old I was. But with my neice and nephew, as soon as they asked, they were allowed a taste. I believe my nephew took a taste at four and my neice closer to six.
It's a sip, a tiny bit in traditional food, and it's about tradition. I think you should just do what ever makes you comfortable. Maybe next year your SIL can bring her own versions of dishes that she is not comfortable with.
Thanks for posting this thread. It brought me back to very happy memories of Sedar!!
Wendy
Our Pesach was wonderful and I'm looking forward to it ending. Because I have practically a full bottle of Manischewitz left from the splash I put in the Charosets (DH and I drink much better wine at Shabbat) we decided we might as well let DD have a taste at shabbat. So we gave her some (watered down) and she liked it and suffered no ill effects.
We also had a wonderful Pesach! My son sipped a tiny bit of Kiddush Wine during the blessing but didn't want any Charoset. He and his two young cousins (ages 6 and 3) seem to have weathered this exposure to alcohol without any complications.
I switched out my Pesach Dishes on Motzei Shabbat, while my husband and my father-in-law went on a quest for pita and hummus (a dip made with chick-peas, sesame paste, garlic and other seasonings). That's what we traditionally eat at the end of Pesach.
Then, yesterday evening I managed to snag two oven-fresh, piping hot baguettes at our neighbourhood "convenience store" (Can't come up with a better term). That was sheer heaven.. :)
In Israel, after Pesach, for a day or two it's quite a challenge to find bread, because a lot of people go into a bread-buying-frenzy.
Now we can utilize our left-over Matzot to re-shingle the house, tile our walkway or create miscellaneous art.. :)
Shai's Mom--One day I'd like to celebrate Pesach in Israel (for one thing, there are more things considered kosher for Pesach there!). I still do the Ashkenazi (sp?) tradition of avoiding beans and other legumes and corn--since I don't eat much bread normally, avoiding my soy is the bigger sacrifice!
It must have been a big sacrifice if I'm looking forward to going back on my diet!
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To Spaypets:
Well.. I'm the lone Ashkenazi in my husband's family. And, frankly, I don't see a problem eating legumes. The rabbi at the temple I used to go to in the US adhered to the following rule: Do you make bread from it? According to him, beans, peas and lentils are okay, corn is not.
I don't really have a problem with giving up bread, but, eating Matza sometimes does horrible things to my stomach, so I do try to not eat too much of it (not a big sacrifice either). I love salads, fruit, vegetables and potatos, so I manage.
For my kids I make matza pancakes for breakfast (follow the traditional pancake recipe, but instead of regular flour use Matza meal), and that went over really well.
I love living in Israel. It is an amazing country. I really hope you'll get to come over for a visit. :) If you do, maybe we can meet.
I'd love that. I think though, that a return trip to India (where my dd was born) will have to come before a trip to Israel (I went when I was in high school and thought it was amazing!).
I've found that whole wheat matza do not have the cementing effect that white flour matza have (and of course are more similar to the original matza!). So we have only ww. My biggest problem is that I actually like matza (with lots of butter or full fat cream cheese--hence the Pesach weight gain!).