Defining Roles

All relationships are like three legged stools. For them to be sustained, there must be three things - love, respect and trust. Great insight. Very well put. The respect and trust have been broken. Having complete access to his medical and family social history has helped too - I wish I could say that was the case... We didn't get to see the medical history before the adoption But yes we do have access to the birthfamily. A lot of our issues cannot be dealt with until we are done with this legal matter. Until then we have to ignore them. BTW.. I have two older children and was a childcare professional before I was a mother, so it not a new mother issue in fact I think it makes it worse.. She is questioning stuff that I know is correct and She is speaking out of inexperience so it is frustrating. Lastly, I have a sense of security knowing my son has complete access to everything about himself, just as a child born to me would. He knows his social, genetic, emotional and physical history. There are no 'blanks'. For me, that is important Again I am questioning couldn't this be obtained through a semi-open adoption.Re: counseling.etc..Again this is a matter we have to delay until the legal mess is over.. They do not trust the lawyer, the social worker or anything we provided. When this legal mess is over we will discuss a third party negotiator and counseling for the birthmother. Open adoption is so vague in definition it ranges fromLetters and phone calls to integrated families. Establishing boundaries and defining roles is very complicated because they are not clearly defined. These roles should come out of respect love and trust but When one side is unrealistic in their demands instead of considering the other side It seems only one side is getting what they desire. One side has the control. There is always compromise in a relationship. But at whose expense. Right now it is at our expense. We are accomodating they are demanding. Defining roles is a process that will take time and a lot of work in our case.

That does make it tough. I wonder though if you can lay some of the groundwork. Does it bother you also when others who are not your child's biological parents question stuff you do? For instance, if your relatives, friends, strangers, neigbors make comments about your parenting choices, is it also frustrating and upsetting for you? Semi open is generally considered to be where there is no direct contact, only exchange of pictures and letters. The child's biological family is only that - pictures and letters, not 'fully real' people. Have you ever had a pen pal? Or an ePal? Are they as 'real' to you as the people you know IRL? Would they be if you were, say, 5? The child does not have a complete family through semi-open (or semi-closed) adoption. They have a thread. That's a shame that it has to be that way because the counseling is needed NOW. This should not though delay your ability to access counseling for yourselves to help you cope with your issues. That may put you in a better frame of mind when the legal dust does settle? You are correct - adoptions run the continuum from fully closed agency placements to fully open integrated families. However I disagree that establishing roles and boundaries is as complicated as it may seem in most cases. It is where you've got complications that these things become more difficult. I have never heard an adoption professional, for instance, define a biological parent or adoptive parent differently. They all use the same terms, same roles, same relationships. Actually I disagree here. They are defined when you enter the relationship = whether respect and love and trust are present. Consider arranged marriages. The people entering these arranged marriages accept their roles at marriage, long before there is respect, trust or love between them. They are strangers accepting their roles because they wanted to be married. Adoption is not dissimilar to marriage in many respects. We go into adoptive relationships often not knowing much about each other. Each has a need the other can fulfill. Time, effort and luck determine how much respect, love, and trust is built. The relatonship though is entered before these things are present, or fully present. Actually, in your case niether has 'control'. You are parenting at-risk, they (at least bdad) are not parenting at-risk. They might see it differently. You have the child. They are terrified that your word will be broken and they will never see the child again. They entered into the relationship with the promise (which they may feel they cannot trust) of ongoing contact, including I imagine visits. Now they sense that may end and they have no way of stopping that if it does. In these situations, I find the harder you try to control, the more they may push for control. There is no trust, so each entitiy will constantly be pushing for 'their way'. There is a lot of fear in everyone's life, terror probably, anxiety, and uncertainty and that heightens everything. You are falling in love with a child you may lose. They are falling in love with a child they may lose. It's the other entity's 'fault' that the child will be lost. What an awful place for everyone to be. Remember all fear is fear of loss, and anger is a secondary reaction to being in fear. So if you see anger, underneath it is fear, always. I think that may be the understatement of the year. Let me ask you this: If there were no benefits to you and no benefits to your child's birth family but there were many benefits to your child (and only your child), would you still do it? Take care, Regina

Enjoying your input giving me lots to chew on... Re: Does it bother you also when others who are not your child's biological parents question stuff you do? For instance, if your relatives, friends, strangers, neigbors make comments about your parenting choices, is it also frustrating and upsetting for you? ...If someone were to ask the questions the bmom has to me regarding any other one of my children I would of told them to mind their own business. My role as Mother allows me to make the decisions for my childs health and wellbeing. Friends may give advice but to question my parenting. That is way over the line in any friendship. They spent a long time interviewing us, and they choose us based on our parenting style and abilities. In this case that is clearly not respecting us as the aparents. When someone treats you like a babysitter instead of a parent then the roles are not defined.. Questioning what and when I feed him etc..Asking what kind of brain development toys he is playing with at 4 months old Questioning his medical care etc.. Is not allowing us to be the parent. .. If it benefited the child and no one else That is supposed to be the whole purpose..Thus leading to my discussion starter. How do you define roles etc..In long term studies.. from what I have read...In some cases Birthparents are very consistent for the first five- seven years and then they begin to lessen their envolvement as their live gets more complicated. Their love does not lessen but their involvement does. There are many reasons this may occur and it is understandable.. They have accepted and trust the adparents they know their offspring is well taken care of etc.. HOWEVER, This creates insecurity and confusion to the child.Who does this hurt the child... Who was the relationship for? Who benefited from the frequent visits? Who is suffering rejection and loss? Often the adoptee is wondering why don't they visit anymore don't they love me...Wouldn't it be better to have to have once a year for eighteen years than three times a year for five and then poof vanish? I am merely weighing and expressing my thoughts.I am still committed to an open adoption.. I am just unsure how to walk it out and how to clarify roles...Most responsible people are capable of making an agreement and sticking to it with acceptable boundaries, respect, honesty and trust. HOwever, there are others,who do not have good decision making ablilities, thus honoring this type of a commitment is next to impossible. To expecting them to understand personal boundaries and respect based on current life choices is unrealistic, for this pattern of behaviour is what made them choose adoption in the first place...Thus defining role in a relationship must be personalized to each unique situation.

[QUOTE=numbr1dbcksfan]Im going to try to give input... First... the father contesting. Were his rights legally teminated? Is the mother supporting him contesting? Is he refusing to give up his rights... or contesting the way his rights were terminated? The father is contesting. We have legal standing based on abandonment. His rights have not been terminated but will be soon.MOther is not legally supporting him, but defending him, acting as a go between asked us to give him back to the father. Take that for what you will He originally was for the adoption but its a long story It is a control issue He took a long time going back and forth leaving the child in limbo so the adoption was filed without his consent... We thought he would consent. Lastly. If you promised an open adoption, I feel that you really need to keep your word. The mother may not have even considered you as parents if you didnt want one. To change that after the fact, IMO, is wrong.

We are still committed to an open adoption. My debate is When lies, betrayal accusations etc.. cloud the relationship this has caused me to say??? Remind me WHat are the benefits to an open adoption? Couldn't this be obtained in a sem- open adoption.? etc.. Our relationship has been damaged and it will take time to repair. Our relationship has been affected by this legal action, thus we have been unable to fulfill some of our commitment, this saddens me. My desire for a baby dedication etc.. has been put on hold because of the complexity of our situation

Please know, that having pictures or seeing a milestone doesnt make us parents... it is a small consolation for all that we are missing. I appreciate this insight. And we trully are trying to have compassion for someone who is going through a severe loss, not accepting counseling and allowing a very controlling manipulating man to cloud her thoughts.For these reasons we have been more accomadating than we originally had agreed to. But to continually be betrayed, lied to, accused etc.. It is hard to continue to turn the other cheek when you get punched every time.She is being fed lies and is paranoid. She is afraid and she is confused. What a mess! We are hoping that once the legal mess dies down we can begin to rebuild the relationship. It hurts that we have done everything she has asked and more and she spits in our face.To her it is all about her. Not about the baby, not about the emotional H*LL it is putting us through or the sacrifices we have made etc..What matters is her pain and her grief, her demands.We have become the enemy.. WHY because when THEY (the birthparents) if we would parent their offspring we said yes. We put our life on hold, we opened our hearts and our home and our meager pocket book. Only to be continually stepped on, taken advantage of, betrayed and financially drained.... They came to us, They chose us. The drama has not stopped since it all began.At some point, when the legal mess is over for the sake of our family and our children. We will have to establish boundaries I refuse to let my children this in this emotional whirlwind. at some point.. When someone becomes unsafe to be around your family... Redefining the roles may happen.The question is I don't even know what the roles are in the first place....

DramaMama, You're already gotten some excellent advice here. I sense that most of what you're expressing is due to the stress you're under, and who can blame you? I hope things get resolved soon so you can all work this out without the cloud of legal action hanging over your heads. You asked about benefits to the AP's in an open adoption. While I don't think this is the primary goal of open adoption (and I'm not saying you do either), allow me to share the benefits that my bdaughter's parents have expressed to me and I have observed: 1. There is no wondering who I am or where I am. No need to panic every time the doorbell rings and it's a woman about the right age with vaguely similar features... "Is that her? Oh my God, is she just showing up?" 2. No need to wonder or worry about search and/or reunion. I'm already there. No mystery, no fantasy. No daydreams that I'm a fairy princess who lives in a castle. 3. Easy access to medical history, bfamily history; much of that that information might be missing from closed or "semi-open" situations, despite our best intentions. K's mom can call me up any time and say "Did you ever have this? Are you allergic to this?" In addition, I have gained a close relationship with K's family, and they with mine. We have a true friendship, but keep in mind that this is the result of nearly 13 years of experiences together. K has the security and love of her family and the security and love of her birthfamily as well. I know my boundaries, and so does my family. K isn't confused; she knows exactly who her parents are and who I am in her life. She has from the beginning. I think confusion over who's the parent is a common misconception about children in open adoption. I've never found it to be true. I don't think the same sense of self, of security, or confidence, can ever come from "semi-open" situations. I know there are many children out there, complete and happy, in those scenarios, but I don't agree that it's the same by any means. I think it still leaves too many unanswered questions. I realize that right now you don't have much access to the types of benefits I've described, but if you hang in there, they can come to you, too. You're right that respect and trust can't be established without honesty, but do what you can to build those bridges from your side, to accept the bparents as best you can for all their flaws, as hopefully they will for you, and I think you'll begin to see the benefits to you and most especially to your child, sooner than you think.

I'd like to weigh in here, with a different angle.I'm a b-dad. Not real proud of what happened but...My ex got pregnant and not only didn't tell me but kept her family in the dark. I was told 3 days after the birth and only because of parental rights termination issues. Her parents then got involved and wanted contact, then the a-family decided an open adoption may not be the best option.Needless to say I was crushed. Years have gone by and I've come to the realization that the a-parents closed the door because of percieved control issues, and I got caught in the middle.I honestly don't know what was best, I just have to trust the a-parents. I gave up my rights. Who would want to raise a child with that kind of start? I'm not without blame, but I'm not a control freak either. In conclusion, my dear DRAMA MAMA, You have to do what you feel best. You have a responsible decision to make. What is best for the child?(I know that is a WAY overused sentence) A delicate balance of love and cold hard logic must overcome anybodys willingness to use a child as a pawn in a game of control and/or manipulation. Raymond

There's probably an element of tone that gets lost in postings, though I think I have a better feel for how this is going down. I suspect her tone - "so, what is he eating? Why aren't you doing it X way? He needs to be fed like this" may be the difference. A thought. Maybe you need to reframe your response. Think of her in a well-meaning but misguided way. I think of it like "Miss Manners" from the paper phrases things. Maybe a good response would be "My dear, don't worry. You chose us because we're good parents with lots of experience. "A" is doing brilliantly, really. Why wouldn't he? He's got a great birthmom and a great mom. Lucky child. Leave it at that. I wouldn't say this happens often, though I'm sure it does happen. What we read was that children of open adoption grow up more secure in who they are. Yes, contact can become less consistent with time, though I don't know about the security issues because these are not parents to the child, only relatives. If, say, I saw my grandmother all the time as a child, then as I got older things changed and I saw less of her or not at all (say, we moved), I don't know that this would send me into a tailspin. It's the same for bparents. To us, they're equal in the child's mind to parents. To the child, though, I'm not sure that's the case. I remember Brenda Romanchik telling us what her 15 YO birthson said. Something along the lines of "You guys make this all way more complicated than it is." BTW if you haven't checked her out at Open Adoption Insight (google it) you should. She's got some wonderful information and insight. Hard to say. Again, what if it it was another relative, like a beloved uncle or something who vanished with no explanation from anyone? May bother the child but I doubt it'd send them into a lifelong tailspin. Reasonable is a personal interpretation, of course. What may be perfectly reasonable to one person is not to another. Having said that, using generally accepted society's definition of reasonable, yes I'd agree. Of course, I'm reminded of what my good friend who is also a 20+ year adoption professional specializing in open adoptions said once: "If they had it all togther, they wouldn't be asking you to parent." I wouldn't say so much role, more behavior is unique. It's more accepting role and deciding what you're going to do as the person in that role/function. That's where it gets challenging. It's easy to be in the role of parent - you know what it looks like, what parents do, how they act, what they say, have ideas of what a 'good' parent is, etc. Society sends these directions out all over the place. It's harder for a birthparent because they get zero societal clues. Mostly what they get are that they are bad/defective and also saintly for not parenting their child. They also get the age-old 'you can forget and move on, have a good life, start over' message. As if anyone could forget a person they carried in their body for nine months. They also get messages that aparents once they 'get' the baby will cut off contact and disappear without a trace. That aparents are greedy and manipulative control freaks who don't care about them and think they're trash. That the aparents set out to steal the child, lying and plotting to get a baby at all costs. For the most part that's not true though I have seen aparents behave these ways - mostly out of fear, insecurity and ignorance. Lastly I'm reminded of the adage "You have a bunny and a tiger. Which do you 'feed'? Do you feed the bunny - sweet, soft, fuzzy and gentle? Or do you feed the tiger - ferocious, angry and uncontrollable?" I heard that about children as an analogy for parenting. Do we give attention to when they're being good or bad? Whatever we give attention to will be what grows. I wonder though if it has applicability here in a small way? You cannot control her, you can only control you. Just some more thoughts. Hang in. Regina

Raymond, Thanks for sharing this. It's an important view for everyone in the triad to see. Regina

Thanks for your insight All of you... I appreciate that you gave me honest feed back yet respected my feelings no matter how rational or irrational they are at this time. I am sure a year from now things will look and be very different. I am trying to see it from the BP perspective. Keep it coming

Sorry, I just found this thread..... I am interested in knowing which studies you have read. In my experience in working with birthparents in open adoption (something I've done for 18 years) many birthparents slack off because they really do not know that their presence benefits the child. They are told when they place what a great thing open adoption is for them. They are not told how it benefits the child, nor is responsibility or committment discussed. Most see their kids as thriving regardless of their involvement. Take a look at the "birthparent" info that agencies give out. There is little on birthparent role or responsibility. It is all about "what you want. You make all the choices. You do what is confortable for you." I see that as the main reason birthparents "drop out". There is little telling them they are needed.

hey brenda, thanks for resurrecting this thread-I didn't see it the first time round either :) . I think that if you (as an aparent) are afraid of bmom/bdad not maintaining consistent contact, then you can reach out to the entire bfamily. we fully expect that bmom will grow up and have a life, and that our role will change over time and that's fine with us. (She does know how important she is to dd, but I expect she'll go to college, things change etc.) We also have bgrandmas and bgranddads, who are always going to be there, baunts, bcousins, etc. That gives dd that bfamily connection no matter what.

Thanks Regina. I think if you asked him now, at 21, he would say the something a little bit different. Becoming an adult has made him realize the complexity of it all. But would he have wanted it any other way? I really don't think so. The really hard part of being a birthparent in an open adoption is that you do not know what a "good birthmother" does. There are no role models, no movies depicting it, no books out there with "good birthmothers" as believable characters. Add to that that adoptive parents also do not know what a good birthmother is...... So we are often working in a vacuum. We know what a good mother does... she knows what the baby is eating, knows what to feed him/her, knows their habits, how they are sleeping. Are we, as birthmothers, supposed to know any of this? There is often an ache in not knowing. Of getting pictures and being shocked by changes. Of not always recognizing our own children. Skye Hardwick wrote a brilliant account of what it felt like to go into a store and leave in tears because she did not know the size of her child. No, we are not parenting. And we willingly gave that up. But that does not mean we have severed our love or care or concern. Total trust does not happen overnight, no matter what the legal papers say. And in between there can be a lot of missteps.

Roles should be worked out before agreeing to the match.

I had to ressurect this thread because there is still so much confusion. I view bparents roles as similar to Mother and father-in laws. They did not raise me, but they love me as their own. They do not get to PARENT me, but they still give advice, suggestions etc.... My in-laws are my OTHER PARENTS. And I feel strongly that it is a perfect starting place to define bparent roles as such and also to gauge our responses. "If my MIL said this, how would I respond?" Obviously there is a deeper connection than an ACTUAL In-Law relationship, but it's a good start. I can go weeks and be fine with no word from MIL, and sometimes I need to talk to her more often. Openess gives all involved the power and control. My open relationship with dd's bparents is letters and pictures for now and a few phonecalls, but mainly it's more comfortable for ALL of us to write rather than call.....BUT I can call if I need to. Openess gave me that.

I notice this is an old post brought back to life. A year has passed and I hope, drama mama, that your case has come to a peaceful resolution. But I was in this exact type of situation last year, and the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that - so I'm well aware it may not have resolved yet. It sounds like our cases are similar in that the bmother continues to use the visitation agreement to file very nasty motions against us and keep us tied up in the courts - all while SHE has not followed through on the agreement and WE HAVE!!!! I absolutely agree with you that, while open adoptions can be positive, they can also hurt you very badly. We too have been betrayed and financially drained. We too were chosen - she came to US. We too have given EVERYTHING and it IS hard to continue to turn the other cheek when we get punched every time. There seems to be no limit to the damage she has continued to inflict upon us. You said "To her it is all about her." And the same is true in our case. ***She has never even asked how he is doing!*** Our legal mess - all the drama - still after FOUR years. No - open adoptions are NOT always good for the child. You stated "At some point when the legal mess is over." and all I can do is pray that we can also end the legal mess - but after four years of it it seems to hard to even hope for. Yes, our lives have been put on hold as well. We would have loved to have adopted again- but not only are we financially ruined now, but I am terrified to ever go through this again. The pain is too much. So yes, there are others of us out here who have been there - I've just not yet heard from one who has been there that it actually did resolve. Anyone? Is there anyone out there who has lived through this and ever had it finally end?