Informed Consent?

Unless you live in a state that holds open adoption agreements as legally binding then an aparent or birth parent can close it at any time.

Oh -- thanks. In Colo, there is no such thing as an agreement, so that's why I was in the dark (I thought it meant that closed adoptions were legally enforceable but open ones weren't, but I couldn't make sense of that).Crystal and I talked while still in the hospital about the absolute shift of power that takes place in an adoption. Up until the time she relinquished (about 3 weeks later), SHE had complete power and we were at her mercy. All we could do is trust in her and the process. We had no legal standing.After she relinquished, WE held all the power, and she had to trust that we would do right by her. She had no legal standing. With such an amazing gift and selfless act, how could we EVER betray her?? Of course, she remains a very positive influence, so it's easy to have her as an integral part of our lives. DD or not, my life would be diminished by not having Crystal in it.

Well I don't know about y'all's agencies but theresources for parenting at the agencies we used were massive and the majority of expectant parentsused those resources to parent. Not all agencies arem about separeating biological families. lisa

[Jenna wrote]:

If you're not going to be honest with expectant parents, you shouldn't be in the adoption world. Gah. I think honesty should be foundational in adoption practice but since, as a sad matter of fact, not all people are honest or trustworthy, there will be no guarantee of adoptions never (or even rarely) happening under duress or deception. But a more informed consent process may help ensure that that would happen less.

I also wish that I had known just an inkling of the emotional turmoil and the fact that it isn't just magically over one day; it's on going.

It's huge.

I have no idea how to implement things like these though because agencies WILL continue to lie and agencies, making money, aren't going to call in the "angry" firstmothers.

I don't know either, but sharing from personal experience and educating others about the realities (each one teach one) can make a difference with some people, meanwhile.

[BestLight wrote]: Crystal and I talked while still in the hospital about the absolute shift of power that takes place in an adoption. Up until the time she relinquished (about 3 weeks later), SHE had complete power and we were at her mercy. I can imagine how it would seem that way from your perspective, but generally (not personally) speaking, have trouble grasping how anyone in a crisis pregnancy could really feel so empowered. I personally felt like my back was up against the wall, my hands were tied, and I had blinders over my eyes (for lack of real information found or given), and that there was no way out.

After she relinquished, WE held all the power, and she had to trust that we would do right by her. She had no legal standing. With such an amazing gift and selfless act, how could we EVER betray her?? Of course, she remains a very positive influence, so it's easy to have her as an integral part of our lives. DD or not, my life would be diminished by not having Crystal in it That will make a huge difference, when it works out among the parties like that, all in honesty and with the best of intentions. [lisa in venice wrote]: Well I don't know about y'all's agencies but theresources for parenting at the agencies we used were massive and the majority of expectant parentsused those resources to parent. Not all agencies arem about separeating biological families. That may be for your agency and that's great, but is not always the case, that's why it would be helpful if there were further legal safeguards to ensure this for all expectant mothers experiencing an unsupported pregnancy. one from me:I had never thought before that adoption was in any way associated with abandonment, but seeing how many adoptees feel a sense of abandonment and even many in society imply it, even on these forums, I think expectant parents considering adoption should know that it may be seen in this way. Although my son admitted a while back that before reading the primal wound he never thought of it as "abandonment", he still had feelings of rejection, and now even uses the word abandonment to describe -- not just what he may have felt -- but the adoption as "an act of abandonment". I realize this comes out of his anger, but it isn't easy to live with, nonetheless, even though I know God knows, and everyone else who knows me knows I would NEVER abandon a child. It's a nightmare to wake up decades later and see that this act is being pinned on you, by your own birth child. Merrill

See, THIS is why these boards are so important. I had never considered the powerlessness that woman in an unintended pregnancy feels. Now I see it. Of course.This also feeds my theory that birthparents and adoptive parents essentially deal with the same things: lack of control of their own lives, having only 3 options that each have BIG drawbacks, and the grieving of a long-held dream that ends.

I've learned a lot since coming here as well. I really want to see the human side of all positions, not just the labels. As far as options, I chose to carry my (unborn) child and had not even considered abortion, or even adoption, at the outset. They would have been non-issues if left to me. I didn't see keeping and raising my son as a drawback at all, it was what I desired. Adoption is something that was imposed on me by others, not anything I wanted. Its really much more complex for us than "having only 3 options". As you said, it is a selfless act (whether done by choice or not), but it is not seen that way by my son who regards it as an act of deliberate abandonment. He is also not able to trust others or accept love. I never would have wished that for him. I don't see adoption as an act of deliberate abandonment in the least, quite to the contrary, but if adopted infants/children/adults can feel this way, prospective firstparents should know this. Regarding the dreams, you are right... the dreams come to an end. My only dream was that my son might know that he was always loved and cherished by me from the very beginning, and over the years in my heart. He rejects this, chosing to believe only what he wants to believe, maybe only what he can believe, for reasons not understood by me. It must be hard to change a paradigm of thinking one held for so many years.

I thought I'd get out the consent I signed - known as "Consent by a guardian to adoption". My scanner isn't working otherwise I'd scan it for you to see, but I'm just going to write out what it said in terms of what I was agreeing to and what I had been "counselled" about. Really it doesn't say much, is very vague and certainly doesn't address many of the emotional long term effects of the adoption. - a child welfare worker or lawyer has explained to me what an adoption order means. - i understand that the order will end all my rights and responsibilities regarding the child (I know they are talking about parental rights and responsibilities, but what about in an open adoption? My rights and responsibilities do not end to my child, but since open adoption agreements aren't legally enforcable here what can we expect?) - I consent to the adoption order. - I understand that I may cancel this consent within 10 days of signing it by giving a written notice to a child welfare worker (in another document I was given the information on how to reach this worker. I understand why they have these safeguards in place, but just another hoop to jump through when I've realized I've made the biggest mistake of my life and I just want my baby back). - I am the guardian of this child. I understand that once I sign this consent the petitioners become joint guardians of my child with me until an adoption order is granted. (which was 6 mons after I placed him and signed this. But really what does it mean that they are joint guardians with me?) - I want to be notified of the adoption hearing. - I have been told about the options available to me for planning for my child and I know I can get counselling regarding the following options: (yeah but from who? and just because you told me - you can chose to parent your baby - that does not count in my books): - i may choose to parent my child - I may choose to place my child for adoption using the services of a liscensed adoption agency - I may chose to place my child for adoption directly with a family member, or any other person known to me - I may choose to place my child for adoption using the services of Alberta Family and Social Services.

Adoption has many infinite layers of complexity.But in the end, and infertile couple who wants to have children can:1. do/keep doing IF treatments2. decide to live childfree3. investigate adoption...and each has its potential problems.And people in unintended pregnancies can:1. parent2. abort3. make an adoption plan...and each has its potential problems. And I don't mean to imply that parenting itself IS a drawback, but rather that there can be drawbacks to parenting in an unintended pregnancy. For our daughter's bmom, it would have been bad for her, her 4-year old son and the baby she carried to be tied forever to the birthfather. Sorry this is OT. I would love to continue this on another thread if you'd like. I'm enjoying our "chat."

With that I wholeheartedly agree, and I think its why for any of us, in any triad position, its so hard for us to be harshly judged and misunderstood by people who simplify it, reducing us to a label that comes along with prejudged assumptions. It is something I don't want to do from my end toward others, either, and hope I'm learning not to. I do understand that there are situations like this. A woman in PA recently was killed because of her pursuit of child support. The father (no adoption involved) was convicted, but he has said (since conviction) that his mother (child's paternal grandmother) did it. On that I don't know, but I do know that all kinds of difficult heart wrenching situations exist that can motivate or force decisions that wouldn't otherwise have been considered. I can see how a truly open adoption can be a good situation for all concerned, in many cases. I have a good article called "The Social Culpability of a 'Private' Decision" if you'd like to PM me for it. It doesn't cover the gamut, but sheds some light in a couple of areas. Merrill

I truly hope this does not sound too negative either way. It is a list of issues that we ran across with our daughter. Informed consent should provide an independent lawyer to the parents who will represent their interests to advise: - adoption is final- adoption means that the child's birth identity is "null and void"- if applicable, there is a revocation period and these are the steps to take to revoke- if the agency is trying to move you to another state, it is likely to a state where you can't revoke- you have the right to change your mind- threats about making parents who change their mind and decide to parent pay back expenses are just that - threats- there is no practical way to enforce open adoption even in states where agreements are "legal" (think about it - what judge will ever fine or lock up adoptive parents?)- your child is your child until you sign the papers- you have the right to medical privacy and to a private birth and to be with your child as long as you want after birth Informed consent should provide an independent counselor to explore: - what's the big rush? birth will probably be a transforming experience, love at first sight- family support, how do you tell your family?- available resources- do you really have lack of control over your life or is the agency messing with your self confidence?- what qualities are needed to parent? do you have those qualities?- what does it REALLY takes to raise a child - not the agency list that makes you feel second class because you will need second hand, i.e., it doesn't take a zillion dollars to be a good parent unless your definition of being a good parent means buying every piece of crap and frill in the store.- will the people around you provide positive support or are they "toxic"?- unless you are "clean", you will probably not be a good parent- you don't mess around with people's hearts- adoptive parents are not social services, if you are looking for a source of money, go somewhere else Happy G'Ma

Would you PM me with your agency name? I have a church organization that is like-minded but not all who ask want to go to a church for help. Thanks. Happy G'Ma

I'm not sure, but I think it means that they are not actually adoptive parents yet, but still prospective until the adoption order is completed. This is something (similar) I found out about my own case, just a few years ago from my b'son. I didn't know about any revocation period or that the adoption wasn't complete after I left the hospital. I didn't have an independent lawyer; the lawyer was paid for by the prospective adoptive parents, and maybe that's one of the reasons why I've learned about a gazillion things only recently that obviously I was kept in the dark about back then. (One of the reasons this issue is so important to me). When it comes down to it, compared to now, I knew nothing, back then. Merrill

I know that's what it legally means Merrill, but what does it really mean you know? I had a lawyer which was appointed by the agency.

Dare I say it, Tara, but could it mean we had a legal right to leave the hospital with our (not yet adopted in full legal sense) baby? I'm really not well studied in the legalities, just surmising at this point. Merrill

We knew nothing either but "lurked" here on this forum reading your posts and others. We eventually realized that our daughter was being railroaded into a bad decision about adoption. These posts have helped us and others who have come to us. My family has become outspoken advocates for informed consent. BTW - that does not translate to anti-adoption. So, thanks for the enlightening us and many others. Happy G'Ma