Old anger about where I found my son

I am an adoptee, my brother (that I was raised with) was also an adoptee, and our younger sister our parents biological daughter. I have reunited quite happily with my biological family - I was pleased with what I "found" in reunion and I think my birthfamily are pleased with me :) My brother never had any desire to search for his parents and as the years have moved on it seems his birthparents have not searched, or unsuccessfully searched for him. I wonder at times how my brothers birthparents would feel if they have ever "found" him. He has led a fairly undesirable lifestyle - he has been in and out of prison several times.....if his birthparents had found him, would they have felt adoption had let them down?...would they have felt his life would have been better if they had raised him? I wonder..... My sister and I chose a completely different path to him. We live a "good" life, have made sound decisions and choices in our lives and by all accounts are good people....... My brother and I were adopted, my sister wasn't...we were raised in the same family......two outcomes were pretty good, one was not... There certainly are no guarantees in this life - adopted or not.......ultimately, our brother made his choices and ultimately, he is responsible for how his life turned out. Hannah, I truly am very sorry for the situation you have found your birthson in - it must be heartbreaking and disappointing - every parents nightmare - adoptive or biological. Take care.

Hannah, Just to let you know I am thinking of you, I 'refound' this thread after responding to you on the thread I started. Didn't post here before as I can't imagine how you feel and didn't want to come across as insensitive. It must have been so hard to have found out what your son had done but at the end of the day it's not your fault what happened. ((((HUGS)))) Pip :)

'Morning Jackie - You know, I never thought of the check business as a form of abuse. I felt used, but not abused. I guess I chalked it up to his youth - and plain just not knowing any better about what could possibly happen to me via unknown people having access to my home address. I should clairfy that the last time money was asked for, it was his sister that called me (also adopted) begging me to send the money off to him. Fifty bucks. She said "He's going to get hurt if they don't get the money and I have no one else to ask for help." I think I told her I would, but added that he needs to learn some responsibilities here and shouldn't be putting any of us in this panic situation. After hanging up, I decided not to send the money, and instead penned him the letter. Donna, what a story about your ex and the boys. As a step Mom that would frustrate me no end, and I'm sure I would have ended up playing the same role you did had I been in that situation. Probably would have left the man/family earlier too - my tolerance level for that "spoiled" behaviour is quite low. ;) From meetings with my sons parents I learned that early on they were frustrated with him. He was doled out "tough love" from them on a continual basis. They relayed to me that he was a handful for them from quite early on. One of their biggest beefs when he became a teenager was his "partying". Smoking pot and drinking. I come from an era where this was part of the "rite of passage" - and didn't and would not have viewed it as the ugly monster they did. They, being from a generation before myself, were completely freaked out by this and 3 times they decided it was appropriate to have him woken up by some tough guy, who cuffed him and hauled him off to some "camp" thing (something, can't quite recall) for an attitude adjustment. It was clear to me via several phone conversations with his Mom, and the few visits I had with them at their home, and the stories he told me that his mother ruled the family. They had me watch their home movies. Holidays, birthdays and the like. I did not see one hug - I did not see "natural" (I use that word because I can't think of a better one just now) interaction between any of the family members. What I saw was the mother sitting on the couch and orchestrating the "mood" and the day. I grew up with a ton of hugs and laughs at every family gathering. I remember thinking it quite sad - what I saw on those films. My son told me once, that when he and his friends were in the garage playing pool, the mother wouldnt even let the dad go in and have a beer and play with the boys. And to top things off - she and I were on the phone after reunion once, and she had the nerve to say to me, "There were several times when I just wanted to give him right back to you." I never let her know how offensive and inappropriate that statement was to me. While I understand the sentiment, THAT is something you share with your girlfriends, NOT the birthmother that has been grieving for 24 years over the loss of her baby. I pretty much stopped communicating with her after that. I'm sure they had the best of intentions all along, and that they did what they thought was best every step of the way. But also interesting - a few weeks after reunion his sister called me and we talked for about an hour. She, in our first conversation ever - out of the blue - admitted that she'd had 21 sex partners by age 14. :eek: My counselor at the time said "Without knowing them, and without sitting down and talking to them I can tell you that something was going on in that family". ie: for both my son to have his issues, and for the daughter to have had that many sex partners at such a young age. No particular weight being put on adoptive parents/vs natural parents - it just makes me wonder why both kids "acted out" (and I don't really like that term, but oh well) so much? Yes, you all are right in that ultimately it's my sons responsibility for his actions. For where he ended up and for making some of the choices he did. I really know that in my heart. But it does not ease the fact on an emotional level that this is how my only child ended up. I'm sure it doesn't help that we're estranged, so I have no way of knowing if things "righted" themselves with his life. If he's gotten past the criminal stage in his life. Maybe if I knew he was doing well, and moved past it all, and is working, has a family - and that his parents hearts are finally eased that he's straightened out, then this conversation we're having now would not be needed. Someone asked early on how old he was when this crime took place. He was just 18. He was in the Navy at the time. His parents made him join the Navy in an attempt to get him on a good path. There were racial "quotas", and his dad had to tell the Navy his son was half Latino to get in. Some strings were pulled for this to happen. He almost got life for what he did, but without sharing the ugly details of the true story he told me (he never told his parents the truth, only his sister and I knew, and he said the reason he felt he had to tell me was to see if it would make me "run away" from him. It repelled me, but I didn't run away - it was far more important to know him and to be in his orbit. It was our second meeting when he told me) he lied on the stand. So, he got, I think 15+ years, with of course time off for good behaviour. He served a total of 8 years for his crime. I'm still waking up with coffee, so that's about as much as I have to say in this groggy state. Thanks for listening, again, everyone.

hannah, It must have been horrible finding out such info about your sons upbringing...these people sounded cold and unable to give the love the kids needed. How sad.....And I do especially get the incredibile shock anf horror you must have felt upon learning of your sons fate. Especially as most bmoms were told that they would have been better off without you. But the point is you just don't know what would have happened if he WERE brought up by you...does he have an undiagnosed, unknown genetic psche problem? Could it have been "in the genes" or was it just poor parenting? Combination of both? You could really drive yourself crazy wondering about the what ifs.... I agree with Donna(the other Donna:) ) that we all hope for our children to grow and be successful...do better then we did and when their indivuality come screaming through, it can be hard to deal with. The other point is that we all have different views on parenting and think its the only way...what I have found is what works for one kid may not work for another. That "authotative parenting may work like a charm one one but obvisiouly did not work on your son.....not everyone has the insight to understand that.... The whole thing though, no matter what is terribly sad. donna

hannah50

Yes, you all are right in that ultimately it's my sons responsibility for his actions. For where he ended up and for making some of the choices he did. I really know that in my heart. But it does not ease the fact on an emotional level that this is how my only child ended up

I think some of us have a delayed grief.. or a delayed acceptance.. Grief has a beginning and an end.. I believe that with all my heart.. I found (in me) a grief on how my son turned out..It may be similar to what you are into.. He was not how I wanted him.. He was/is not part of my dream of his life.. I remember the exact moment I let it go.. I dont think I will ever forget.. I was in my cheese factory (sans studio) in the country and I was thinking about what I wanted to do.. What I was going to make or paint.. Not what he was going to do on terms of me.. Not my dissapointments in our reunion.. I told myself.. (at that exact moment) that I could let it go.. I could let it all go.. I was not responsible for who he was.. is.. And I get to finally have a life.. A life without worry.. I told myself҅you dont have to worry any more.. Heck I gave myself permission to not worry.. What a concept.. I can not go back and change a single thing.. I can not control the past.. What went down went down.. Jackie

I gave up my son in 1987,the attitude was STILLthe same then---as it was in 1971---SAD TO SAY ! Patrick's birthmother, Lori Weis

I've been following this thread...it really hits close to home in my life. There are many, many passages that I would like to reply to, however, the following really jumped out at me Hannah50 posted: Hannah ~ Finding your birthson in prison must have been a terrible blow. I am also a birthmother to a daughter relinquished in 1971...fortunately, her life turned out well. On the other hand, I am the mother of a son who chose the path of crime as a juvenile and carried it over into adulthood. It is heart-wrenching to visit through plexiglass, or to see your child shuffling into a courtroom in chains and shackles. The "what-if's" have also eaten me alive...what I did that I shouldn't have; what I didn't do that I should...but, life deals out no guarantees. I also parented two daughters...neither of whom made the raw choices my son did. My thinking was that I was unfit as a parent because I did not know how to prevent his sprees. It was my son who debunked the myth that I was somehow guilty of his choices. Scarlet makes a valid point: I It was her chioce to rise above the manure that was thrown at her...her choice to be stronger than the negative. Although any of us have the option to "blame" adoption, poor parenting, broken homes, negative influences, or a host of other external issues, there is always the option of overcoming and choosing a different path. PetersMom posted: How true! I had only one son...and I certainly didn't dream of his future as including barb-wire and cells. As any parent, I had hopes and dreams for him that he would bring something positive to humanity...never figured on him making a career of relieving people of their cars and possessions. Again, I agree. And as dl states: This is basically what my son said to me when I was trying to take the guilt and remorse on myself. I asked him what I could have done...he told me there was nothing...that he knew right from wrong, but chose to do it anyhow. A wise friend once pointed out that, as parents, we rarely take the credit for all of the positve things our children achieve...we allow them the fanfare of their own accomplishments, their own hard work. Why then are we so much quicker to take on the blame of their negative behavior? donnapararise posted: Thank you, Donna! A large part of society does not feel the same way...as I have seen personally. There is a certain stigma attached to parents of criminals...makes it real easy to blame oneself. I was caught up in that very quagmire. Isabo posted: Ironically, I was a LCSW working with troubled adolescents and their families. Talk about rocking one's world...geez! Not only did I feel inadequate as a parent, I was beating myself over the head with the thought I couldn't help my clients if I couldn't even save my own child. Today my son is 28...and a joy to my life. He is a husband and a father, and everytime I feel his hug or see his smile, I know the hell we walked through was worth it. People can (and do) change. ~Deb

WRT to Donna's message[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana]Okay, maybe I'm stupid, but I thought that is what parents do. When do you stop being a parent? My husband and I are paying for our son's health insurance and give him money here and there while he finishes graduate school. I have friends who bought their son and his wife a house as a wedding gift (no-they aren't rich). [/font][font=Verdana]My daughter asked for help with her unplanned pregnancy, and my husband and I have her and her baby living with us. What's the difference - is there still some stigma there folks? Was it a change in our lives? You bet it was - a BIG change! Do we have regrets? No way! (BUT, we DO try to impress on our daughter that she is fortunate that this is 2005 and not the dark ages of the 50's, 60's, and 70's, yup the 80's too.)[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana][/font]

[font=Verdana]In spite of terrible pain in trying to have a relationship with her son, Hannah is still being his mom. This job of being a parent does not end when our children turn 18, 21, 25, 30, ???... Haven't I learned that in the past year?? (wry laughter)[/font][/font] WRT Isabo's Message So what's changed wrt coersive adoption practices? When we realized that our daughter was being brainwashed by an agressive adoption agency into joining the "Dear Birthmother" cult, we ran away - fast. I have seen only one adoption WEB site that gives any meaningful advice about the option of parenting. [font=Verdana]Hannah - I think you are an awesome mom. First moms are the most amazing, strong people in the world. You have never given up on being your son's mother and have done well by him. He is very fortunate to have you, and I believe with all my heart that he will tell you that someday.[/font] [font=Verdana]Happy G'Ma[/font]

Really sorry that l have to disagree with some of the comments, but it will make a change in posts. Firstly, its an often mentioned cliche that pressure, deception and cohercion re children going for adoption is a bad practise from the 60s-70s before we were liberated from the stigma of single mother birth, my belief is that it is just as much if not more used in this decade, l think statistics will confirm it, perhaps not over single mums, but for other reasons Yes we all make adult choices, and are rightly responsible for them, but behaviour is definetly influenced by parents, amongst other reasons, the reason, be it pc to say so or not, is why the vast majority of criminals, be it for financial gain or the use of violence are from deprived or immoral backgrounds, due in part to those influences, not everyone of course but generally it is more likely, and statistics do show that children brought up in care are more likely to commit crime, though not neccessarily adoption, which is better for a child than multiple foster homes. Many children do grow up with great aparents who give them a loving, happy and decent life, with moral standards, and some dont get that with bparents, but some do grow up feeling theyve been rejected, as is also the case with those that have dads who walk away, or are denied access, they can become angry about it and more likely to have problems. Whilst many could have remained with their bparents and families, who were not often offered time or support in keeping their children, with many there was a level of deception and coercion used about doing the right thing, often pressured when ill,tired and confused about what is the best, the boards are full of bparents who regret their decision, and prove the system wrong by going on to be good parents. No one knows if hanna`s son would have committed murder if not adopted, and been able to stay with her, and of course no bparent or aparent want to raise a child to murder, but there are parents who`s behaviour and influence can contribute to a child becoming seriously disturbed, the majority of children that are anti-social, criminal,aggressive and violent have come from bad influences, part parental, also peer influence, its sure fire that none of them are born bad or criminal. It must be terrible to find that your bchild as grown up to be in a bad place, we all do what we think is best for them at the time, with added pressure from others, and in some cases it is, for some not, and that is the worst thing to find out.

Posted by Twitchytally: Maybe I am dense, but I am having trouble understanding what exactly you are saying in this sentence. Could you please explain? ~Deb

Hannah, I noticed an emotional consistancy in how you described your son's thought processes and reactions...It sounds suspiciously like RAD or bi-polar...both of which couldn't be your fault.... He may have a sickness that has very simply gone undiagnosed. Congratulate yourself, on one of the hardest parenting choices you made...to say NO and set boundaries...that alone may have done him a world of good...or will eventually... HE sounds quite manipulative and decietful! I'll bet also that his aparents had no easy time of it.... and coming from the parent of a manipulative child myself... I have to say that being "cold and controlling" sometimes in a lot of circumstances is really what makes my daughter feel safe...trusting that I will take care of her and that I cannot easily be manipulated makes her feel safe. There are still hugs and kisses..but I know what it's like to have to be on my guard emotionally every minute of the day against her survival "skills" I certainly think some days I come off to others as horrible as what you've described..LOL... I do hope you find peace and my brothers too landed in and out of jail ...the girls in my family turned out fine...maybe it's the Y chromosome!! Whatever happened genetically turned my sisters and I into successes and my brothers into failures...same parenting, same biology, makes no sense whatsoever!

sorry l rambled on, and on, confuse myself at times, i`m trying to explain to people who often take the attitude that bmums giving their child for adoption is such a black and white issue, you makes your choice, take sole responsability and live with it,I`ve heard people say, well no one held a gun to your head, no one forces you, or l could never do that whatever my sit, or theres loads of support, its all down to you, etc. But there are times in everyones life, from being a small child, when we are influenced by others in some circumstances, be it parents, friends, neighbours, teachers, employers, authorities, with enough pressure most can struggle, and we can make choices that we regret, life is not like a john wayne movie, where whatever is thrown at you has no effect, be upright, defiant, bright eyed, fight to the death, etc, but its not reality, people do get scared, be it soldiers, pows, in police custody, jail, living in a ghetto, bullied at school, parents divorcing, abusive parent,young pregnant, no support, no income, pressure to do what is best for your child from family and authorities, fear of failing your child, l just dont think we can say that our behaviour is never influenced by other people, places, situations, regimes,times in history,and its not about making exscuses or not taking responsability, its just about acknowledging that we can be influenced by others in the choices we make,. would have been simpler to just put it like indians, dont judge till youve walked in my shoes. l think few will ever truly understand bmums-families sorry if its not clear, probably cos its not clear.

twitchytally huh? maybe if you slow down when your typing..i have no idea on what you are trying to say. i have been known to make spelling mistakes...but i truly have no idea on what your trying to say....

Well, twitchy, at least I know that you and I agree on something! I'm still lost. Your meaning is about as clear as mud to me. I don't discount that my lack of comprehension might be my tired brain, but that last post has to be one of the L O N G E S T sentences I have ever tried to read! ~Deb

twitchytally ~ I'm with MissngLinkInFl and dadfor2 ~ I'm not really sure what it is you're trying to convey. To take a stab at it, I will say that I agree that sometimes we are influenced by others in the choices we make ~ sometimes our parents. However, I think most of us, when we are in our mid teens, do start to make our own choices, even if they are not the choices that our parents would have chosen for us. Even those that are from deprived or immoral backgrounds are not usually encouraged by parents to partake in immoral or criminal behaviors IMO. I know for myself, that my parents certainly did not believe in teenagers having sex without being married. I chose to make my own decision about that and if I had become pregnant, I would have had to deal with the consequences of my actions. I personally don't believe that if we choose to do "our own thing" we can then blame our parents for not bailing us out of the consequences of our own choices ~ especially when the choice was something they had warned us about ~ as was the case in my upbringing regarding having sex when one is not prepared or ready to be a parent. I agree with you that "l just don't think we can say that our behavior is never influenced by other people, places, situations, regimes,times in history,and its not about making excuses or not taking responsibility, its just about acknowledging that we can be influenced by others in the choices we make". BUT, more often, our behavior is more influenced by our peers and what is deemed acceptable by society at the time, and simply the choices that WE make for ourselves vs. the wishes or influence of our parents. Our prisons are filled with people ~ I doubt many of them are there simply due to the influence of their parents ~ adopted or not. JMO. :)