Unschooling in America

I would concur that the children I am exposed to that are unschooled seem extremely immature in the way they relate to others. Could simply be the way their parents "teach" though. Of course, in regards to what Lucy said about special needs - I can see its relevance. To every opinion, an exception occurs :) I have hard part with the concept that the child shouldnt do anything they dont want to. Life, in great measure, is about hard work and doing what you HAVE to do. Like showering :) or laundry, or paying your bills. I think its GREAT to have a passion, but a large part of allowing my kids to develop their PASSION is that I am also teaching them that other things, to us, are more important than that. Family, church, responsibility, a work ethic etc. How many young men do you know (or know of) whose "passion" for video games robs them of their chance to experience life? Or kids whose passion for a sport (in our house, hockey) robs their family of a normal life? I want my kids to know ALL things in balance - and know what their priorities are. I love the fact they learn about other cultures, even if they dont "want" to. Disclaimer: My kids CAN function through regular schooling and do quite well :)

I did not see the show, but I wanted to comment on homeschooling without a structured curriculum ( Is that what unschooling is?) I have a cousin that has 5 children that were homeschooled without a specific curriculum until high school. The first 4 children were ahead of grade at the time they entered school ( the last one is still being homeschooled for a few more years). My cousin's wife is a trained teacher. She lets the children decide the focus for the day---but then they are required to do a full range of studies related to that topic. They also do a lot of reasearch on the computer as well as in the library. They visit various museums frequently as part of their study. Their kids are just so well behaved and interesting. They are a bit used to being around adults so they carry on quite mature conversations and always have. When they were younger it used to amaze me how I could talk to the parents in a relatively quiet room with the 5 kids around. Each doing something--reading, computer, draawing, a game---quietly. They are active in their church which has a large children's program so they get a lot of socialization there. I must say that I was quite against homeschooling before I was exposed to the cousin's philosophy and now knowing their children it can be great if it is done well. It takes a lot of work!!!!

Lexie, I have the utmost respect for homeschoolers, and we have considered it often (waffled actually) in the last year for our daughter. I know how much work and dedication it takes and absolutely understand why some people choose to do it for their kids, for many reasons. Our city has a HUGE homeschool population. The program, was in fact, a bit misleading, in that it did not show the world as your lab/classroom so to speak. I did some reading online after this post and the program to find that some unschooling groups are very very organized in their free spirit, child centered approach to education. The program more or less showed a 5 year old boy who poked around on the computer, played with his toys and wore his pajamas all day and responded "whatever I want" when asked what he chooses to do each day. It does not seem to be a good representation of those who are doing it well.

It doesn't sound like this boy is going to have the skills, discipline and exposure to realize his potential. I wonder if his parents think about that. I know my cousin tries to emphasize both fun and rigor ( She lives in the UK or I would have her school my son too). We can have fun while we are learning--but you have to learn something. :confused:

we do a bit of unschooling but only to a certain extent! we have rules "I am a very rule oriented person" but I am not a "book learner" I do better with hands on things as does my dd.SO we combine the methods and it works out great for us.I disagree with moms who do nothing with their kids except let them "be".I think kids need some kind of structure in thier life. but that is just me

I didn't see the program, but I think unschooling sounds nicer than the schools my daughter has gone to. In 3rd grade (when in a different placement) she cheated all the time on her homework. In her current school in 4th grade I'm constantly having to try to rein her back from cheating, but I totally sympathize with her inclination, because the homework load is too much for her, also, she doesn't seem motivated to do it, and she claims she doesn't understand it. I've bought her math and general workbooks from the education store, and she will spend hours happily working in those on her own. She will read packages, catalogs, and directions (and successfully followed the directions to put together some cheap badminton poles/net, which is better than I can do!), but she resists sitting and reading books. School is too much stress for her. Also she doesn't seem ready to do abstract math and that is what her class has switched to already. She still needs word problems and pictures to understand math concepts like division, but is being forced to memorize techniques to get the right answers. Sure she is being 'exposed' to lots of topics, but the way the school system is exposing the kids I think is too pressured, too fast, too advanced for their ages, etc. I'm single and have to work and I don't know if I could afford a private child-centered school. I'm finding myself being unsupportive of the teacher or my daughter's schooling, which has been a big shock to myself, because pre-adoption I thought schools with high scores, testing, high standards, etc was the right way. When I went to school I had almost no homework, and when I did have it, I usually didn't do it. But school was easy enough to get through, and my casual attitude through age 18 didn't adversely affect me in college (except that I had to take an algebra course before I could take "real" math classes, but even that wasn't a serious handicap, and in fact my B.S. is in Math, ironically, ha!). I think schools today are discouraging kids more than preparing them. I've read that cheating rates keep going up and up, and that today's kids have high levels of stress. It is too bad.

When my dd went to public school( only for the first 6 weeks) I was so upset at the way they did things.Her homework ( which was at least 2 hours) did not count for a grade ,the school work did not count for a grade the only thing that counted were her test scores!! Can you belive that?Some children do not do well on test and it so unfair to base what you think they know on a test.As soon as we got custody of her we pulled her out,We have done homeschooling with our oldest for the last 10 years he is now in college and doing great.I think there are people out there that use homeschool as a way to do nothing at all with the children but then there are those of us who seem laid back but still get the work done and children learn.

I personally like that the unschooling proponents are not, as they say, following someone elses agenda. Because letҒs face it, the school system, including public and private schools do have an agenda (and they should). The problem with these agendas is that they do not necessarily benefit all children in all areas. (Although those using this method have an agenda as well, even if they claim they dont.) ;) We all know that the public school system was created to educate individuals to keep the economy going, thus, they were only taught what they needed to know, nothing more, nothing less. Today, there is so much more taking place. With federal regulations, children are forced to think WITHIN the box, not outside of it. Standardized testing has gone way too far, with well-meaning, stressed-out teachers, frustrated parents, and disconnected children caught in the middle of funding debates. ғPass this test, or youre out of here.Ҕ (Or you wont graduate, be promoted to the next grade, or receive a good recommendation (teachers), or less funding for your school or the threat of state take over, etc.) :confused: The problem I find with this new revolution (and I say that sarcastically) is that children do need some type of structure and order and most kids are crying out for it and not getting enough of it. Our children learn so much from the lesson of having to do things that they may not like to do. ItҒs almost a metaphor for life. Your son may not like to write, but love to read so isnt it doing him a disservice to just allow him to write without learning the power of reading and words? It shows a child that they may love to draw or love their foreign language class or to build things, but that sometimes we are required to do things that are not our favorite things just to learn so much more. Come on, every time we do a load of laundry or go grocery shopping or iron clothes, they may not be our favorite things to do (we would much rather be laying on the beach with a cold drink and a good book), we do them because we have to. This speaks volumes to our children. ItҒs how I remind mine when they complain about the monotony of the same assignments that dont seem to connect to anything. This leads me to those schools or alternative learning strategies that actually get it, that actually do a good job. Homeschooling is one. Cetain Montessori programs are another or even the Reggio Emilia philosophy that began in Italy. The children have some leeway and freedom as to when they learn, what they learn and how they learn, but thereҒs also some structure and guidance. Little Johnny is not going to have the pleasure of watching TV all day or riding his skateboard to learn cool jumps. He can save that for after his math lesson in which he can learn creatively. There are so many different learning styles that most teachers (the ones that are honest) will admit that someone will almost always get lost in the shuffle. Class sizes are swelling. Thats why IҒm a big supporter of charter schools. Not to take money away from the public schools, but so that parents have a choice. And, lets face it, the kids who have the least amount of choices are those who are from low income homes, mostly minorities. If we saw a mass exodus of children leaving the public school system for private schools, charter schools and homeschooling (not unschooling, mind you), then I think that would force the school system to make some changes. Our children are being cheated in most public school situations, especially poor, minority children and children with special needs. It does benefit someone when children drop out of school, or are retained. It doesnҒt benefit society as a whole but our tax dollars will continue to fund prisons and schools. If you educate a child only enough to allow him to make minimum wage for most of his life, doesnt the economy benefit? Just a thought. Sorry for the rambling. Note: I am a teacher, who also happens to be the parent of four amazing African American young men. I am halfway through working on my MasterҒs in Education as we speak. I write about this daily, so if it seems personal (and passionate) it is. Although I take this personally, you dont have to, so please donҒt take offense if something in my post bothers you. You might thank me one day when the young gentleman helps you with your car door and doesnt car jack you for it! :D P.S. Did I mention that I did not see the show? I am also wondering (from the mentions above about the portrayal of the children), if the purpose was to portray more negative than positive about it. Hmmmmm. Were the sponsors proponents of formal schooling? Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but I always try to think of the motivations behind that. If we want to find the negative (or postive) to any story, we can certainly find it. So where were the families that are handling this well? Were they portrayed or interviewed? Questionable. I am still reading the Unschooling site, as (amazingly) there are some good basic philosophies there that I do agree with (within reason)! ;) I know, I'm always the rebel! :D

K, That was an excellent post. I feel, as neither an educator nor a parent with a school age child yet, that education is the key to our future, the success of our society. However, I absolutely believe that each parent has to choose the environment/approach that is right for his child based on his child's learning style, interests and needs; I also agree with you that education often involves processes that kids do not want to do. Sometimes a person never likes a certain discipline/subject though sometimes continued exposure and expectation enables them to love certain things that might not have been expected. I do not think the intention was to present unschooling in a negative light, though the particular proponents, in this case, did so easily. When I began reading about unschooling, I could definitely see the benefit (and the structure) that many groups have, especially because different kids learn differently and at a different pace. I, in fact, could see the benefit for my own daugher who, before three, asked me each country on the world map. After two discussions she knew every single one of them (never needed refreshing) based on location and shape and was ready to move on. A public school pace would never work for her. I think there are many very very successful forms of educating children, because each child learns so differently and in a different time frame, visual, auditory, tactile, etc. However, this particular program was, in my opinion, an extension of the philosophy that does not want to pressure kids or "squash their spirit" in anyway. I have seen this a lot in our area. There is no redirection, no pressure to conform to basic manners, no expectation of what is appropriate. A refusal to use the word "No" ever; I am the first to believe that language and approach mean everything with a small child and believe that directing them to something else, showing them a different interaction and using positive language makes a world of difference. I do not think that no should be said without alternative or explanation; however, sometimes it is necessary. The philosophy of freedom of space and choice beyond your space and infringing on others is seen often at community events that we attend; I have many examples. Kids at storytime who hit, push and take things out of other mother's diaper bags to be met with no direction but rather an explanation from the mother, sorry he is just two, excusing and in essence, condoning that interaction. Children who tear up books in front of store personnel and are not corrected and parents who do not then buy them (have a friend who works there, and this is common.) I once heard a mother tell another mother at a local storytime that her daughter, who was four, did not like to sit up or wear her shoes, so she laid under the craft table and put her bare feet on the underneath of the writing surface for the entire time we were there. I was aghast. This was the same feeling that I got from this particular program, that these parents had consciously decided that their kids were going to follow a different set of rules. And well it did not sit well with me.

We are considering sending Liam to a private school that embraces a lot of these philosophies. We explain it to friends as homeschooling in a classroom. I would love to go to this school!

Red, I loved your explanations on using appropriate language with children. This is also very important to me as well. There is such power in words! It's the difference between saying "Don't run!" vs. "Can we use walking feet?" or "How slow can those feet go?". I remember a psychologist who researched this and found that using "no" and "don't" makes kids naturally tune out. It also tends to stifle natural tendencies in kids to explore their environment because they then wait for the adults around them to instruct them on appropriate behavior. It's like the kid who sits in front of toys and looks back at his mother before he begins to play. It goes against children's natural instincts. Although, this usually applies to kids who are easily shy, not naturally free-spirited, uninhibited and unafraid. No is very apporpriate in some situations, though, especially when a child might harm themselves or others. :) Andy, That school DOES sound awesome. I am trying to picture what that looks like but I believe that it gives the children such a positive self-image. If you can learn through doing, then usually it sticks, especially with small children who cannot think in abstract terms until much later. I remember in college observing the college's preschool in which the children actually vote on which subjects they want to learn about. It was awesome. I now use this technique all the time since it gets the kids involved in meaningful activities that they can learn from.

This thread is old, but just in case anyone was interested still, I thought I'd post.We are in the process of adopting through foster care, but we have a 16 year old biological unschooled son, and I can tell you that unschooling can be awesome way for a family to live.I thought the tv spot was interesting, and largely accurate, but limited. First, unschooling does not mean "umparenting," and, in fact, unschooling parents tend to be very involved in our children's lives, acting as resources and support as children explore the world. It is true that some children DO learn to read later, and some earlier. The interesting thing about the late readers is that when it clicks, they begin to read well very quickly. I know many unschooled kids who were motivated by wanting to read Harry Potter books to themselves, and in some cases, HP were the first books they read!Some unschooled teens choose not to go to college, but many do. It tends to be an asset in getting into college, because our kids are interesting and self-motivated learners.I'd be happy to answer any questions people have about unschooling. I know we're often told that education is best left to professionals, and even homeschooling can look scary! The idea of trusting children to learn is terrifying! But I can tell you that it does work, and the result is happy, healthy, intelligent kids. My son at 16 is taking a college course at Harvard, plans to attend a music conservatory, has lots of friends, and has an adult job (that he applied for and won over adults!).Kathryn

Kathryn, That is very interesting. I think it does sound pretty scary to trust children to learn, but I suppose if they haven't been in the public school system for so long that they have lost interest in learning, it might not be as hard as it sounds. I just got an email from my daughter's teacher today asking me to work with my daughter to get her to read "with comprehension and joy". I am baffled, I don't see how the teacher thinks children can be made to read with "joy". My daughter reads well but she just isn't interested in reading novels (she is only 9 yrs old, I love reading but I don't think I really started to enjoy it until I was 11ish), the only reading she takes 'joy' in doing is reading instructions in order to DO something she wants to do. I sure wish I could stay home and let her learn in her own way at her own pace. The teacher also said she is going to wean my daughter off of asking questions. So, she is supposed to read for comprehension, but she won't be allowed to ask questions. I don't understand education methods!

Don't you just love that! Sometimes I wonder if teachers ever read their own notes. :grr: Howdy, my little man was so completely turned off of ever learning to read when I started homeschooling him in January that I thought I was facing an impossible task. Then I went to a book fair and discovered the "Captain Underpants" books. What 6yo wouldn't love a hero running around in his underwear, fighting with wedgies power and screaming TRA-LA-LA! :p My DH reading these to J (it's a guy thing, I'm told) has really inspired him to work hard at learning to read. I think he just didn't realize that there was stuff out there to be read that was so gosh darn funny. I don't know if those books would work for you, but maybe you could find a book series she might like. It might help her find some of that joy, KWIM? Blessings, Jenny

There are a bunch of problems...lots of kids, so teachers are unable to individualize education, lack of trust in kids, etc. Howdy, I'm so glad that you recognize that your daughter already finds joy in reading -- she likes being able to read things that help her do what she wants to do. Maybe someday she'll be more interested in reading fiction, maybe not. MAKING her do it certainly isn't going to make her love it! And trying to get her to STOP asking questions?!!!! Yeah, definitely want to discourage curiosity! Sigh.... Jenny, think about the generations of kids who were discouraged from reading comic books! It's wonderful when your child finds stuff that they really enjoy, and they should be encouraged! Kathryn