why do bmothers have to be such masochists?

Janny, just remember, you're only human!!! And I agree, it's good to use books as a guide and as an aid, but they are ONE persons opinion and experiances(or more depending). You are unique, your situation is unique, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive, even if it 'goes against' what a book says. *hugs*

thanks Quantum. I'm beginning to realise just how much I 'preach' Verrier, but there is so much that is true and good in her stuff, but as members have rightly pointed out, its only one take on adoptees etc and I have to stick by my instincts. I am truly grateful for the support I've had from Verrier and forum members like Ravensong and yourself amongst many others. I think Keds is having a rough time, we are almost parallel as to where we are, but I"ve just posted on my journal and sometimes you have to take a risk and come out with how you feel and what you want, and i did that today and my son responded to it. Only 2 lines from him, but that was all that was needed for my wobbling reunion legs. Thanks for the replies you guys, its anchored my volatile emotions and boy have they been exploding today. I comfort myself that these explosions send out a message to my son (who can't get his parents to react, no way, no matter how hard he tries) that he is loved and cared for in a way that identifies with his own emotions and personality. I hope that in time, it will help him rest in the care and love that his parents give him but just happens to be polar opposite to his own emotional needs. Agh, this reunion stuff is complex. Sometimes the emotions take you back to base camp/ base emotions and my son responds to it. He can identify with me, because a lot of the time, he IS me. If I'm having a hard time, you can bet your bottom $ he is. Our reunion biorhythms seem to be in tangent to one another. Helpful at times. Not at others. Groan.

Ah, Janny! I'm glad he responded. (BTW, I refuse to read Verrier!) Sometimes I think we birth/first mothers are a bit masochistic because of the guilt/shame/ etc. we have endured from our side of the process! Some of us anyway are pretty good at punishing ourselves. (After all, we deserve it don't we!) Recognize that ultimately this is not healthy for us or our children. My goal is to unconditionally love... that doesn't mean I have to allow someone to abuse me. (I have trouble remembering that with my congregations, btw. Of course, they think since they pay me, everything's fair game... come to think of it - that's not unlike your bson, saying "you abandoned me, so you have to take anything I dish out while I test you to see if you mean what you say!") You note how much your son is like you... stands to reason he knows which buttons to push, lol. I was in the middle of an IM conversation with D Sunday evening in which I said in some ways (dealing with emotions) he's much more like his bdad (or my dad) than he is like me. I was explaining what I meant when he had to go put his DD to bed. (Now of course I'm wondering if I upset him, Sigh...)

Hi K & everyone, I think I must be healing better than I thought, because I just won't feel guilt anymore, and I won't be punished anymore, I just want more 'normal' stuff from this relationship. I'm tired of the punting (actually I have actually done real punting on the river in Oxford, England and it really hurts the arms...!!! LOL). I want some normal stuff. Trouble is, not being a mother before, having had no further children, I don't know what IS normal! Ha! My friend who has gone through teenage years (which is the age my son is still 'at' even though he's nearly 30) says that a lot of the stuff I'm experiencing is just teenage angst and typical "sorreee mum, didn't mean to..." just blithering through their own worlds. As I'm finding that a mum is just expected to be "there" I can't say I'm liking it much. I'm kinda glad I didn't add being a 'mum' to my life's CV. Wot? more pain and agony on top of all this? Noooooooooo! I'm going into selfish mode and I don't care. LOL. I did however, get to hanging up my verrier socks and decide that, helpful as it has been, I must go with the flow of my son and myself and make sure that although he gets what he needs, I'm not exactly, as you say it K, not gonna allow abuse along the way. I've gone through enough pain and suffering in the past 19 months to satisfy even MY son's need to know that I know what it feels like. No sir, not going there again. The end of the year is coming up where he will be with his family for the 29th year plus and I will still feel relegated to being there in the background with seeing him only 2 days to date. Thats it, period. 2 days out of 29, nearly 30 years. I can't tell you how that sucks. Anyhow, back to your post K, I'm not on the punishment route and I won't allow it. Been there, worn the t.shirt, history, thanks. Thanks for reminding me that he knows what buttons to push, because he is so like me. By the way, what is an IM conversation? (not on the list of forum speak abbreviations!). (((hugs)))) all round. I'm not wearing the masochist t.shirt anymore, hope some good can come of all this venting, like keep my sanity!!!! p.s. not only did my son respond, but also my father did too and he's prepared to back off from going down the 'dredge the past' route. Blames me for it, but says he only wants to go forward now. Now that's progress. I must be stronger than I think......

I believe that each reunion is incredibly different.. and Janny I bet you are just where you are supposed to be.. You get to take care of yourself.. what a lesson that is.. I grew up with acting out people.. people that were difficult to live with.. I spent my time trying to make sure a fight would not start out.. And I married an acting out man.. I jumped right back into the pot.. And I could never figure out why I was living in all this insanity.. I think reading the line.. You do not need to be loved.. not at the cost of yourself.. was one very ah-ha moment.. Jo Courdet.. Advice from a failure.. a self help book written in the sixties.. I remember when I turned a corner in my reunion.. bson was not replying.. I was wearing my heart of a sleeve.. and I got nothing back. I sat in Vancouver.. waiting and waiting for our face to face.. (I was with hubby who was in Vancouver on business).. two weeks before the arrangements made would come to fruition.. Nothing from him.. no phone call.. and when I called them I got a phone message.. the kids and him.. It took me out.. and I had to sort my feelings around all this.. I had to take care of me.. And the lesson was sent into hyper drive when he was in my city months later and I knew we were going to meet up.. but again no phone call.. till a week or so into his time in my city.. I wanted so much.. I do not think he understood this.. And again it goes to the experience (birthparent vs adoptee) is really basically different.. His experience with relinquishment/adoption was relinquishment.. being given up.. and my experience was of giving up what/who I loved so very much.. How in the heck does anyone sort this.. I sure do not know.. I think it must take some very together individuals.. I had to learn that the stuff I wanted was not going to happen.. I had to let it go.. my dream.. Janny.. you are not alone.. Jackie

Hi, Janny & Everybody... Janny, I've been wanting to respond to your painful posts, but just didn't know how to approach it. This is what I have to offer... "Things falling apart is a kind of testing and also a kind of healing. We think that the point is to pass the test or to overcome the problem, but the truth is that things don't really get solved. They come together and they fall apart. Then they come together again and fall apart again. It's just like that. The healing comes from letting there be room for all of this to happen: room for grief, for relief, for misery, for joy." This quote is from the book, "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron (page 10). I've found the book to be helpful, especially while reading other books that can be painful, such as Primal Wound. It offers another perspective on the experience. Best wishes, Susan :flowergift:

Hi Jackie, that really struck a chord with me, you know, the aha moment? Oh my, I'm crying now. I'm so flummoxed with all of this. I know he's getting it in the neck at home and he's getting it in the neck with me. He's one thoughtless boy and yet, there's something so good, so intrinsically good in him, he's one lost boy thats for sure. Never putting his foot anywhere except in his mouth and annoying everyone as he goes along with his heart crying out "I don't want it like this", but too damaged to do anything about it. Jackie, I'd like to think we are where we are supposed to be, but I haven't been able to cry for ages and its a coming now. Oh I get so frustrated. I should be out tonight, but I feel ill with it all, I have nothing left to give, my chronic fatigue riddled body is chronically fatigued and I was so getting better and now everything is going in reverse. Yes, I AM determined to look after myself, which is why I got firm with both son and his grandfather cos it was getting ridiculous, all this pressure and mind blowing stuff. Apparently my other sister in Canada knows what our father wants to tell me, she's heard it and she's said "no way" its not fair and its too horrible to contemplate. (this dysfunctional family of mine, my sister told my other sister who told me.. my sister and I don't keep in touch, thats another story...) Great start to 'new' relationship with 80yr father... Yes, I grew up with acting out people, our family's history is entirely that. I wonder if my son will ever realise that with all their differences and faults, he is better off with his afamily, his bfamily are very difficult people to get along with. Several hundred miles distance has served me well over the years and new friends and new role models have helped me become the balanced individual I have become. And yet there is such a threat to this peace I have come to be at - my son has brought one certain peace, peace of knowing, what he's turned out like, he's alive, what his parents look like, a kind of closure of one kind but no closure at all in another. Oh the regret of sex outside of marriage hits me from time to time, knocks on my door "that'll teach ya". Three decades..... still, at least there is the support now. I know that some generations had the attitude - you made your bed, lie in it. At least we don't get that anymore, except maybe from ourselves. I was very taken with your expression You do not need to be loved.. not at the cost of yourself.. that was one very ah-ha moment.. certainly for me too. And yet, when I got the email from my son, after I'd said I'd leave the mobile on all night, phone if life gets too much, that I'd come up and get him if necessary, his reply said it all really. Thanks mum. I wish I was a very together individual. But because of my family history I am not. His afamily are. They have everything except emotional explosions and I have emotional explosions and feelings to match my sons. I guess there is comfort in that for him and when we talk, on the phone, its great. It validates my not so good side, because he has it too. Something to share and be grateful for when his afamily look at him and are ????? He feels so bad being in that family and yet with a bit of forethought, it could be so different for him. So much acting out, why should it be any different for me with him? Is it his personality or is it adoption or both? Thats the $1000 question. I think I will have to let go though. Wrestling with this butterfly of 'reunion love' hovering over my shoulder. You can't wrestle with it, you have to wait for it to alight and then it may dance some more. When will it land? perhaps never, but I have to enjoy the flutter the intrinsic joy, See it go off in all its colours. At the moment, if I'm not careful, I may wrestle his antennae off and damage his wings!!! (LOL) I sincerely hope that I haven't spoilt the moment by asking for things he can't give. Oh patience patience where art thou? Thanks for sharing with me Jackie. Gonna contemplate my feelings on this now. :coffee: p.s. forgive me for the meanderings, I can tell when I'm tired and oblivionated, I can't think straight and my mind wanders off and jibbers away......

Thanks Susan, Yeh, the posts are painful aren't they, I'm not sure how I've got through the past few weeks, but I have a feeling my emotions are so strong, so overwhelming, I wonder at having any friends left at all?? But I tend to 'share' things and not let one individual have the whole lot, that would not work or be fair. These emotions make me gasp at times, literally as someone pointed out. Breathless in Seattle (LOL), no UK actually. I'm feeling a bit 'floaty' as if I'm disassociating from everyone, going into some kind of trance. Protection I guess. My mind certainly isn't functioning on full thrusters. She canna take anymore Capt'in (Scotty from Star Trek) - yeh, I'm goin nuts. Yeh, I think there's a lot of truth in that. It would reduce the fatigue I guess if I could get my head around that rather than try to win the battle, like don't. Let it fall into some kind of pattern, it would certainly take the worry out of it. With the chronic fatigue syndrome, the hospital talked about the "boom and bust' approach to it - 'it doesn't help' they tell you, don't go there. I think there may be a lesson in it for reunion actually. The boom and bust is where you get a reasonable amount of energy and you use it all up. Wow, here we go, and off you go, putting your heart and soul into doing, when you should really be conserving your energy. Eke out a bit at a time and conserve your energy, that helps to be more consistent apparently, and to achieve what you felt you couldn't. Yeh, I think I can try and apply that, some????? I'm addicted though. To the internet, to this forum. I can't go a day without getting on it. Everything has overtaken me and its not as if I dont like it, its just that there are other things going on that I could get involved with, but this has swamped me, I feel as if I'm losing balance. Have to go, I'm meandering and rabbiting again. Its cos I'm tired and I need rest. I could also do with a break. C'mon son, give me a break. Phone me up and lets talk and enjoy it like we always do.....that kind of break and yet part of me is wanting to walk away and save him for another day, a day when he is healed and more able to participate in all of this. I don't think he's ready for a relationship, I really don't. Thanks again Susan,Janny

Oh Janny you are doing everything right.. IMO You went to your church today and got help.. Let go and let God.. is my main motto.. Here is the rest of that sentence from the book.. Advice From a Failure.. Jo Courdet.. I love what she put for the name for this chapter.. "You always learn to swim in the winter".. You are learning how to swim Janny.. 8. YOU ALWAY

LEARN TO

SWIM IN THE WINTER

YOU DO NOT NEED to be loved, not at the cost of yourself.

The single relationship truly central and crucial in a life is

the relationship to the self. It is rewarding to find someone

whom you like, but it is essential to like yourself. It is

quickening to recognize that someone is a good and decent

human being, but it is indispensable to view yourself as

acceptable. It is a delight to discover people who are wor-

thy of respect and admiration and love, but it is vital to be-

lieve yourself deserving of these things. For you cannot

live in someone else. You cannot find yourself in someone

else. You cannot be given a life by someone else. Of all the

people you will know in a lifetime, you are the only one

you will never leave nor lose. To the question of your life,

you are the only answer. To the problems of your life. You

are the only solution. Your bson has to do this as well.. Addicts IMO do not have a relationship with themselves.. they have a relationship with the drug.. The drug is the main directive.. as the AA sponsor says.. “You are talking with the drug.. not the man”. He is powerless over the drugs.. And I know I lied when I was on drugs.. I said whatever needed to be said in order to stay stoned.. To my parents to the people that were in my life.. I stopped when I had kids.. when my kids were getting old enough to know I was doing drugs.. And I worked my program.. wrote my inventory.. saw my part in it.. Lots of stuff like that.. Susan.. I loved your quote.. Jackie

Thanks Jackie,Oh I feel so much at peace now. I have taken the problem and given it to my son and am allowing him to sort it. I am finished with problem solving, because HE has to have the desire to change and I can't do anything in that department. Oh the relief of letting go. And as for the telephone conversation with his mother, I was SO PLEASED I got the courage to do that and to say that she could tell T that I'd spoken to her. In fact I've already told him by email. I am about to replicate (in part) what I said to him in my journal. Now I think I will rest and try to heal, physically and emotionally. Its out of my hands now. I have to have faith that he will do the right thing and if he doesn't and his life spirals out of control, it won't be through lack of trying on all our part. I thank my heavenly father for his wisdom. Rest now. Thanks everyone, it was a scary feeling being alone with all of this 3am this morning, but I feel supported and relieved now. Can't tell you how relieved....

Hi Janny,I'm back home with my foot propped up (I took another tumble yesterday morning and stood most of the day cooking.) I now have a very bruised foot to match the bruises from my car accident. I hope your sense of peace is continuing... In answer to your question from my last post: D and I "chat" on yahoo messenger. IM is instant message. He can respond as he has a minute (and vice versa).

Hi Jannyroo~ I empathize with your frustration and disappointment. Reunion with these young men is beyond difficult and complicated. I too am at the point where I've had to say that I will no longer be a punching bag after having two reunion dates set and then had both meetings cancelled within 24 hours before our scheduled meeting time. The resulting emotions from the build up and then disappointment are too much! I just saw the movie August Rush today (which I cried through) and told my dh that the little boy in the movie who is desparately searching for his parents is what many of us birthmoms wish and hope for. We want to hear that these kids thought about us all those years, and that they felt that we were in some way connected, knowing that we were out there wanting them as much as they were wanting us. If only we could all be lucky enough to have them ready with open hearts and open minds when we finally find them. Unfortunately, there are often many road blocks and detours along the way not to mention during reunion. I continue to tell myself that "everything happens for a reason" to help in the hard times. They say patience is a virtue, which means we must all be Patience Gurus by now :eyebrows: but nonetheless the emotions are so hard. While we sit here waiting for them to work through there issues hopefully we can continue to be strong and patient.

Its now December 2007 and I'm still as frustrated as ever. The frustration and disappointment as you say is unbelievable at times. I find myself mourning the relationship I could have had, the boy he could have been, or I hoped to find, rather than the one that is holding back, so paralysed by his take on life and the evil emotional anaesthetics he uses to cope with his emotional pain. Its so painful to have to stand back and watch and wait for any changes, IF they come. Like you say, we should be patience gurus by now (I LIKE that expression, made me laugh!!). Hope you are continuing to 'hang on in there' as I am. I will take a look at your posts soon, have to go now, (((hugs))) Janny

So ok as usual I read the starter thread and nothing else...sort of an OLD habbit of mine... I have always said as a parent you walk through fire for your child and walk through it again if they ask. As the birthmother and connected in so many ways to adoption I really do believe that. I was finally able to send my son an X-mas gift for the first time in 11 yrs ( he is 13) and though I would love a quick email from his Aaunt (my contact) I doubt I get it. Sure I drove two hours to get the perfect gift and my nerves were shot picking it out. Still my son...my baby boy could yell scream cuss and disapear for a couple months while my life fell to pieces, but as long as he still let me peak at pieces of his life I would be ok. Though my only adoption reunion experience has been with my little brother ( he was adopted and I grew up in foster care) I still know that reunion sucks. My fiance' asked me 5 min ago if I heard from my lil brother, but nope not since a few weeks before X-mas and I have sent emails and called him for X-mas. It just works out that way. You know I used to wish they gave us all manuals before we became birthmothers so we would know what it would be like and what to do next. The hard reality is WE signed the papers into this little club excepting all the conditions and terms that only senior members of the club could explain. We will always have pieces of our hearts in our hands knowing we ripped them out. You have every right to feel frustration. I believe ALL Bmoms can come here and to feel as safe feel as happy and suffocated or angry or hurt as we want to. So all I can offer you is a great big hug...and the truth...no matter what happens in the future a few pieces here and there are better than faceless nightmares and never knowing. Maybe I am wrong...but I have been around here for a while and I remember what it was like for 9 yrs not knowing. Good Luck and know that being a Bmom means you ROCK as a mom no matter how you feel at times. HUGS, Loveccl

Thanks for your support Lovecc. My brother and I have hardly spoken over the years (30 years ago he was peeved because I wouldn't let him and his wife raise my son) but as brothers go, he's the only one I have and everybody rarely hears from him. So maybe it goes with the territory of dysfunctional families which mine definitely is. Anyway, back to your heartfelt comments, I really take them to heart and thank you and by the way, not sure when it happened, but congrats on your engagement and as the vulcan I was quite fond of in my teens would say, "live long and prosper"!!!:loveyou: (((hugs))) Janny:flowergift: