the right words

Hey Jackie, It must be so hard for them ya know? Our husbands. Because I think a man's natural instinct is to see a problem, get out a tool and then fix it. And I want to hug my husband forever for wanting to fix it for me. But because I'm a woman my way of "fixing it" is to sit with it a while, look at it from all angles, make it an enemy, then a friend, then learn from it. LOL! That approach just takes to darn long for hubby. He comes at life as if it's a tick in an engine. He just gets the wrench in and tightens whatever's loose. There! No more issue! God love men; maybe they're right. Hmmm. Jackie? Do you have some sort of crystal ball over there in Toronto that you're pointing at my house? I can see you over there right now with a tie-dyed shawl wrapped around you! LOL!:love: :love: Yesterday for one tiny, tiny second (just a fraction) a picture flew into my mind of my daughter and son running up and hugging me. We were all crying; so happy. I squelched that immediately. Nope. Nuh-uh. That I will not do. It will go as it goes and I will take the steps necessary when and if my children decide to meet me. I will continue therapy, continue posting in here. Build up my arsenal so that I am ready and so that I can strive to honor their wishes whatever they may be. Will they accept me? Perhaps. Will they not want to know me? It's very possible. I have no control over that. Though I am sure it will be like a war trying to remember that fact when the day comes (if it ever does). Something strange though; already both of my daughters are beginning to panic. My youngest keeps crying non-stop that I'm going to leave her (I can't seem to convince her otherwise) and my oldest keeps changing the subject. And these are the women who know me more than anyone on this earth!!! I tell them everyday that I will never stop loving them; no matter waht. It does not occur to them that the fact that I've lost two children only makes them (my daughters) that much more precious to me. My oldest has a baby boy and still she can't get her head round it. So that's a sign right there in my book. Me and God are having our issues too. He keeps throwing adoptive parents and their newborn babies up in my face! Every family function I've been too this month? I swear there's either aparents showing off thier baby or family members announcing they've been chosen. While I'm happy for them, and I am happy for them, I keep looking at the sky and saying. "What are you up to now Jerko?!!" Then too, every tv show I seem to turn on is about somebody being adopted or surrendering a child. Yada, yada, yada. So again there I am one-eyeing the heavens and saying "Let's hear it Pal!" God doesn't say much back; no words of direction; Just more like this;... "Uh uh uh. I'm not handing you the keys today Janey, You have to figure it out yourself. Use that big brain I gave you." If I were a guy I'd grab my crotch and say, "Yeah I got Your big brain right here Buddy!" :cowboy: I like what you wrote; the Melody Beattie. Guilt, control. Whew! Can't imagine a more thorny hedge than this one I enter now. All I can do is pray that I come out of it with my humanity intact and that I have the good sense to allow others thier own. Tall order. I hope I'm up to it. Lots of love friendship your way, Janey P.S. Keep looking in that crystal ball. It is working and I for one am grateful! :cheer:

reunions are complicated...even when they are good... but when a reunion moves beyond the adoptee and birthmother too quickly, well, i think it is asking for trouble.... i wish i had never involved my raised children in my reunion... it has been too hard on them.... on the other hand, though... teaching them that they can process things... and sort things... and feel bad... and come out the other side, well, that is a good thing... and that is life... my reunion started with her aparents... the father told me too much too fast, i think... he told me things that were only hers to share... he told me things that broke my heart... the joy that i felt in knowing her name and what she looked like, well, that joy was shattered by the truth of her life... of what had happened to her.... and i had to grieve more... her aparents made it clear from the beginning that they wanted to be in control... well, i'm an anti-control freak... that doesn't work for me... and when they realized they could not control me, things began to get worse... they were never good to begin with... how could they have been good? in the first conversations with them... when they told me things about my daughter... when they treated me as though i were an object, without feelings... deserving no respect... when they acted like they were martyrs for raising this genetically defective child... whew... that was tough.... really tough.... especially since none of my other children are genetically defective.... then... my birthdaughter involved my sister... and my aunt... and my grandmother... and that sunk the ship. i think reunions are best between the adoptee and the birthmother... until things stabilize... until their relationship is manageable... until they reach a good comfort level.... i tend to think most birthmothers come from dysfunctional "original" families.... what on earth makes anyone think that a dysfunctional family actually gets healthy in 18 years? or even 30 years? dysfunction is generational... it never ends... my original family is probably even MORE dysfunctional now than it ever was before.... having my birthdaughter in the middle of it ... well, it is deeply disturbing... on so many levels. julie by the way, janey... because my daughter is only 22, and she is still under her afathers financial umbrella, i feel compelled to respect his request.

Janey So many times in my life I have had to bite my tongue.. with hubby.. He knows I am messed up with reunion etc.. he knew.. But he was there for me.. oh lordy he was there and he put up with.. and I put up with it.. The first time I met the bson and family and after we left and took the ferry from an island off of Seattle.. we sorted that we were really hungry and went to a restaurant.. we had to drive back to Vancouver but we had to stop for food.. In the restaurant.. the devil possessed my husband.. I swear.. He said to me.. Well now that thatӒs over you can get back to taking care of me! Ohhhhhh lordy give me the strength.. I said to me.. we have both had a real hard day so Jackie do not say a thing.. just smile.. Let it go.. But bottom line he was on a big feature film.. Trapped.. Kevin Bacon.. Charlize Theron and Courtney Love.. And he had a lot of pressure and I was not helping him.. I was supposed to be out there to cook for him etc as he has a dicey tummy and film food makes him sick at time.. And I had a rail pass while I was out there and I was taking advantage and going over the Rockies and down to California.. One of the reasons being is that bson never called me and there was to be only one visit.. So after hubby said that I just put me on hold.. emotional me.. Then bson was in Toronto.. a month or so later.. (I flew back because he (bson) had a business trip etc etc) So after all that he was in Toronto and he did not call.. and I sat by the phone.. he called finally and we made arrangements to meet up and go and visit my dad.. All through those times I had my emotions taken care of.. me took care of them.. I know I had learned how to do it when I relinquished.. I do not know if this is right or wrong but its me.. I used to have dreams of flying out there and babysitting the kids and letting bson and wife have time away from them.. just staying there and taking care of the kids day to day.. Being a grandmother.. Not happening.. not going to happen.. not every going to happen.. Bson has invited hubby and I back for a visit tho.. and he has said that he wanted me to visit.. but we do not have the money for that kind of thing.. something I have to accept.. But then bottom line knowing they are okay.. knowing they have a wonderful grandma.. that lives near by.. I am okay.. There is part of that Reunion Solization letter written by anonymous that floats around the net that really applies here.. The journey through reunion is not unlike traveling to a foreign country where one doesn't speak the language or know the customs. Immersion into a new culture presents adjustments to climate, food, clothes, mannerisms and social rules. The experience carries imagined "should haves" that are markedly different from the often awkward reality. We donԒt speak the same language.. we have different cultures.. that is the given at the beginning.. that is something that has to be acknowledged.. As Julie says in the next post.. one on one.. I agree with her.. Going slow and making sure no one gets to put in their bits.. And taking care of your daughters through all this.. showing them.. Love is a verb.. and they need that verb.. And you can not go back and change what has happened in your life.. Not for anyone especially your kids.. Sometimes reunion happens to women that are still in secret keeping.. and they can not see who is around them and maybe hurting.. They are looking inward and are totally self involved.. And no blame on that because they were forced into this (some of them) from day one.. But you got to see what is going down around you.. Slow and steady wins the race.. and heck that is what my bson did with us.. with me.. the silences.. the no email back.. I wanted more.. because I had a dream.. that was cooking for a long time.. Its all lessons.. and learn we must.. People will do it.. they will manipulate and then expect a person to buckle under.. Control from outside.. being controlled by others.. And heck controlling.. I love the line.. here there be dragons.Ӕ Jackie

Julie Wise wise words.. Its such a big deal reunion.. and its so nice to read posts from the relatives that are affected by the reunion.. half sisters etc.. and learn from them.. There are not a lot of books on how to deal with all this.. what is the best way to navigate a reunion.. and I do not think a lot will be coming down the pike very soon.. I just learned that non identifying info is not a set rule in all the states.. people (agencies lawyers etc) can decide whether they will give it.. or hold it.. or how much they want to give.. Non identifying info no less! Such a blank wall to bang ones head up against.. That must have hurt something awful.. And still you were supposed to tow the line.. do the right thing.. say the right thing.. be the right thing.. Just like when we gave our babies up.. (some of us) I want to scream.. when I think of this.. Grief has anger in it.. lots and lots of anger.. and you had to suppress yours.. I bet you could not tell that man what you really felt.. how disappointed you were.. how angry you were.. if you were even able to access said anger.. Control then.. control now.. do the right thing.. be a good girl.. do not bring the house down on us.. Don’t let your aunt know (from my mom) as you remember how she said you were going to turn out bad.. be a bad one.. Accepting our children as they are.. and not wanting more from then.. or heck controlling them by guilt.. accusing and then standing there till they buckle.. Bend to our will.. comply.. My kids have been out here visiting for a bit (daugher just got up so I will have to go).. and I have to keep remembering what my mom did to me.. Now I just love them for the very persons they are.. not who I want them to be.. even tho I know they are hurting inside.. They got to find themselves.. I hear you Julie.. I hear you loud and clear.. I wonder if they knew they were doing this.. I wonder if they understood how much pain they were giving you.. I wonder if your sister knows that she disrespected you.. to your very core.. Do people like that understand? I watched Big Brother last nite.. and there is a guy in there that is thick as a brick.. IMO.. I know he will not get the subtle stuff.. And you were left behind.. and you were not acknowledged.. for the very person you are.. You were judged and found lacking.. IMO I do not think there is a greater pain.. I was lucky my sister respected me after she found out.. she had gone through some real hard things in her life.. so she understood others pain and how bad it can be.. Ah.. On Dr Phil yesterday.. a man was on that was verbally abusing his wife.. terrible things were said.. Dr Phil said to the woman.. the wife.. that this man is not a powerful man he is weak man.. and he has to lash out to you in order to feel better.. To find his power.. "You are being abused" he said to the wife.. And he did not tell the woman what to do he just offered her help.. help to acknowledge (see that) she was being abused because I do not think the woman really got it.. she was deep in the pain in the codependency in the quagmire of her marriage.. Dysfunctional families.. always work to keep the one that tries to break free.. By pain by insults.. my mom was a master at it.. Yes! I am so sorry Julie.. so very sorry.. Jackie

Hey Jackie! Amen to this! I have caught so much flack over the years from family members for the way I've raised my daughters. It is the one area though where they are learning to shut the frig up and stay out of it. I have never shied away from the big issues with my daughters; drugs, death, sex, pregnancy, abortion, divorce, God, what-have-you. But more importantly, I have my taught daughters to embrace themselves. I have taught them that it is not their job to care for me, it's my job to care for them. And when they've asked me if I disapprove of whatever dream they have for themselves, I simply say, "Doctor or ditchdigger, I love you just the same." That is the attitude I will go forward with as well should I ever meet my children. It is not a child's job to live for a parent, be what a parent thinks they should be. I mean, of course, yes....I want my daughters to be responsible people; to not be out in the world spitting on others, but I've taught them to give back whatever it is they get. Because no one, NO ONE, should be allowed to spit on them. My children are on loan to me for a brief time only. They are their own people, as it should be. For years I asked myself that question. Then one day the question changed. It went from "Do they understand?" to "Do they care?" The answer....Nope. They don't. And in the end I guess that's their business. Mine is to forgive myself and go on. Someone wise told me they call people with our place in the family the "sin eaters". Something about how back in Appalachia in ancestral times, that there would be an outcast; a sin eater whose job it was to take on the sins of the community and then live apart, unwelcomed, feared and avoided. I have revised that to be the "truth teller"; the hero child who stands up through words or actions and is testimony to the truth of what is really going on in the family. My life in the street, my children...all of it; it was a loud shout from the muddy ground and my family slapped their hands over their ears, thereby deafening themselves to the abuse they themselves were suffering. That's too high a price in my book. Janey

Janeytwo My grown up daughter embraces herself.. and there are times when I want to say.. nooooo stop.. too far.. But I can not.. That is one of the key things I sorted while in reunion with my bson.. he is who he is.. and I accept this.. I may have had my dreams.. and some of my dreams did not come true.. how could they.. But I look at him and I accept.. Oh there is a book in that.. Such a powerful image and thought process.. I was a sin eater.. I was the bad one.. my dads sister used to tell my mom that.. I would come to no good.. she said.. I think we progress.. we as a society.. Me in the sixties I was breaking rules.. right left and center.. Womans right to go out and have sex.. and live on her own.. and be her own person.. And then I got into the late sixties and the thought revolution.. And now I will not ever go back to the old way of thinking.. and now my daughter will not as well.. I want to tell her.. to stop.. and change and be someone I am familiar with.. precaution.. And I cant.. Jackie

another commonality with my raised children... it is something to sort.... and accept.... all my daughters are who they are.... birth or raised.... i can accept this.... and be proud of all of them.... and love them all. it is harder for me to accept my mistakes as a parent.... the choices i made that make life more difficult for them... each in their own way.... from the decision to place the first.... to divorcing the father of the second.... to having two so close together that they are like twins... and on top of that, all the parenting mistakes i have made... many mistakes. it is much more difficult for me to accept my own mistakes with them... than it is for me to accept their own mistakes and love them through the consequences.. it is also hard for me to accept the mistakes my birthdaughters adoptive parents made... and do not own. that is very difficult for me.... yet, i am not holding the adoptive parents to any different standard than i hold myself.... although, i should... they were supposed to be better than me.... weren't they? and yes.... some dreams come true.... some do not. my oldest is in Ethiopia on a four week mission trip... to me, that is a dream come true! She is studying to be an RN.... and may even pursue long term missionary work... and other dreams.... like before we adopted the baby, i honestly thought the baby would sleep and eat and be angelic and easy.... now WHY i thought that, i haven't any clue... i have already raised three infants..??? boy did I forget.... and that dream definitely is shot.... or the dream i had of my two middle children being perfect little playmates.... some days, it's a war zone around here... and I think i should be getting combat pay.... and yet.... future missionaries??? maybe!! julie

Hey there! :-) God help us all if we ever do! I fear harem politics; the way women turn on women. Heck, men are the least of our problems IMO!! It's strange.....I think I told someone else about this, Kathy maybe, but I remember my sisters and my mom and I going to see that movie Pleasantville. And afterwards, we were all at a diner and my sisters were laughing about how historically rediculous the movie was. And my mother and I, in a rare connection, looking at my sisters and saying, "Are you friggin nuts!!!??" Mom had to tell them how she vaccummed in pearls and how she was the penultimate scandal of her block when she finally divorced my father. Funny thing was, we learned later that five more women followed suit within the year; throwing down their aprons and their subjegation for a life lived on their own terms. I am not sure if it is a good thing or not that the young women of today do not even relate to Pleasantville; that the ones I've met think it's a fairytale. Scares me because I'm afraid we could go back there; back to the time when a man could beat his wife with impunity; rape her and it was considered marital relations. Back to the time when women were patted on the head and the job of jobs was to be a stewardess (no offense meant - hope you know that). Shoot (no pun intended here) I still remember the first woman cop to pull a beat here in Detroit. She made headlines. Now, it's nothing to be a woman cop. And I also remember Shirley Muldowney defeating Don Garlits at the Grand Nationals. Imagine that! A woman competing in top fuel!! Whoever would've thunk it? Now Ashley Force drives a rail and young men her age accept it as an everyday occurence. Heck, I believe there's a woman contender who drives a funny bike. Good for her!!! We've come a long, long way baby!!:cheer: And it's in no small part to the women of your generation. A heartfelt thanks and nod of respect to Shirley Muldowney and to women like Jackie. :battle: Janey

Hey Julie, >>>it is harder for me to accept my mistakes as a parent.... the choices i made that make life more difficult for them... each in their own way<<<< Oh Julie, thank you for saying this. It eats at me, the way my daughter suffered through my ex's alcoholism. He never abused her (I would NOT have tolerated that) but the craziness...the chaos of that marraige. I sujected her to that through my own denial. Tough stuff. And now, trying to find my daughter & son, just to know they're okay....my youngest daughter is a wreck and I feel like "should I give up?" "what am I doing to her?" It is so awful! And divorcing her father. He no longer drinks and so she doesn't understand sometimes. He and I both try to be honest about the disease because we feel she needs to know the dangers of its genetics. And heck, even that makes me feel guilty at times. Not easy, this being a parent! :hypno: Still, I am grateful for the trips and the falls. They teach me to get back up, dust myself off and learn. Though sometimes I sort of shake my head and go "Well...THAT was a lesson I could've done without thank you very much!!" LOL! There is a song, can't remember who sings, it but the refrain has always stuck with me.. "To life, to laugh, to love, to learn......that's why we're here." Yep! Have a wonderful evening! :grouphug: Janey. PS Congratulations to your daughter on her trip to Ethiopia! Wow! :love:

i have not heard her voice since the night before she left.... just over two weeks... i haven't gotten a text ... or an email.... i knew it would be this way.... they warned us... and the leaders have called into texas and the folks in texas posted that all is well.... but still... i miss her so much.... i ache for her. even though i know she is in a good place... doing good things.... i must have threatened her a hundred times to remember her malaria medicine... she has to take it once a week... i finally told her that i would never forgive her if she forgets to take her malaria medicine, gets the dang disease and dies..... i sent her off with bug spray, mosquito net, latex gloves, lysol.... malaria meds, antibiotics.. i really wasn't that worried until i took her to the doctor for her shots... typhoid, yellow fever, meningitis, and something else??? maybe hepatitis A? i didn't realize how hard it would be not to have contact with her.... i'm doing okay.... but it is definitely OUT of my comfort zone... i don't need to talk to her every day, but i LIKE knowing i CAN.... i have been sitting up late at night watching those documentaries on the children and living conditions in Africa.... and thinking of her. and all that she is seeing and experiencing... i love her so much... i love "liking" her.... i love being with her... she is so very precious to me... and i miss her.... it's really hit me these last few days... i email her every day, even though i know she's not getting the emails... and by the time she does, there will be this pile of thirty emails and she probably won't even read them.... but i am emailing her about the baby and all the cute things she is doing... or about her little sisters, who are caring for her kitty and hamster while she is gone... or about nonsense stuff that is funny and happy.... and one day, it hit me.... all this stuff must be so trivial to what she is seeing out there... she is seeing death... and starvation... and poverty like she has never seen before in her life... she is seeing loss.... she is with people who have nothing.... anyhow... as you can tell, i am missing her so much... julie

I can relate so much to what you're saying here. My eldest went to France for school for a bit and it was so had for me. The day after she left I was in a grocery store and I heard a girl call out "Mom" to her mother who was shopping with her. That girl's voice sounded so much like my daughters. It just twisted my heart. Huh. I am remembering right after she pulled away from the house to go the airport one of my brother's who is not the smartest cookie in the jar, said "Ya know Janey, they had a major terrorist threat against the airlines today." Good grief! I could've strangled my brother for that. I didn't sleep until she called me from Heathrow (she'd stopped in UK to be with family for a week before going on to France). And oh how I missed her that summer! I was so proud of her for going and she learned a great deal about herself. I have been to Africa. And the poverty there is eye-opening to say the least. A very powerful journey your daughter is on. And a powerful one for you as well. Our children.....the paths they lead us down in order that we can learn who we really are. It is amazing to me. Sending a hug your way and keeping your daughter in my prayers every day.:camo: Janey

julie23 Its all part of life to me.. its part of me being human.. and doing human things.. I just typed this up for a person in Alanon.. From One Day at a Time in Al-Anon..page 220 "Use a slogan," somebody suggest at a meeting. "Keep it in the forefront of your mind all the time, and don't let your troubles crowd it out. Act on it!"

Take, for example, "Let Go and Let God."

The more tightly I clutch my problems to my mind, the less opportunity I give God to help me work them out. The more tensely and desperately I try to solve them, the more the answers elude me.

I will let go and let God. If I can't solve my difficulty, perhaps He will, if I can only let go and let Him.

Today's Reminder

Saying this small phrase over and over gives me such a sense of release and relaxation that nothing seems as difficult as before. The thought of just letting go seems to drop a heavy weight from my shoulders, and lets me breathe free again. Why has it been so hard for me to let go? Its because I feel that only I am capable of solving the big problems? I know that isn't true, so I will just Let Go and Let God.

God's help is always available; all we have to do is to make room for Him to take part in our lives and keep ourselves ready to accept His guidance.. I love the concept behind this writing.. this slogan.. It gives me such freedom in all my introspection.. I see me giving my bson up because of circumstances and I see his life and I see my life and I see my kids life.. and I know.. I can only sit in my corner and do my needlepoint and pray that everything is going on as it should.. Jackie

Janeytwo I hated that I was a stewardess and pregnant and hiding that pregnancy.. This is what I hate most of all about all of it.. Keep the secret be pretty and lie and get a husband.. And I think this is what I put across to my daughter.. and then she shocked me because she learned from what I told her.. I think of the women of CUB with such a lot of fondness... Qotes from my files.. This from Beggars and Choosers.. Rickie Solinger. Page 113 Feminist Relations When early CUB members joined the organization, they identified with the womens liberation movement to varying degrees. For many, becoming affiliated with a womenҒs group concerned with rights and justice quickly convinced them that their issues was, as Pat Taylor put it, yet another womanђs issue. In the late 1970Ԓs, Pat and others came to frame their experience in terms of gender discrimination: we, as females, were told that we did not have the resources, ingenuity, creativity or strength to be parents to our children.Ӕ In general, the members who took on the responsibility for writing CUB documents for internal and external consumption, such as Carole Anderson, were already ardent feminists when they joined CUB, so the infused the organizations publications with a strong feminist perspective.

Carole Anderson wrote emphatically for the group in 1981 when she claimed. Our pain is a feminist issue.Ӕ In the late 1970s and early 1980s, when Anderson, Lee Campbell, Mary Ann Cohen, and Sandy Musser defined the birthmotherҒs experience, they connect it to all the major claims of the contemporary womens movement. From their point of view, the coerced adoptions theyҒd experiences were meted out as punishments of inappropriately sexually active women.Ӕ As girls rendered defenseless by societys gender imperatives, they felt strongly that they had been manipulated and lied to. Jackie

Hey Jackie! I had looked up CUB and came across this on their home page.... >>>>>The loss of a child to adoption affect many areas of life, particularly marriage, subsequent children and difficulty trusting other people.<<<<< I am going to start a thread on this and you know, it's so very true. I mean yeah, of course, the trusting people. But also how it's affected my marraige and my girls. There has been some ugly developments there which I will post on in the thread. Anyway, I have sent an inquiry to CUB to see if there are Motor City chapters. And, if not, how I got about becoming involved to start one. A very worthy cause this cause. You know, it will not be my generation or yours I don't think who will overcome this. I mean, I love being married; having a very best friend in my husband. But the having to be a reflection of what is expected. Maybe we all won't escape that, either men or women, because that is what society expects. But these young people like your daughter and one of my nephews who's definately his own man; this generation like Jenna in here; they can possibly do it. They can embrace their lives with all of life's flaws and they can stand and say, "This is me! Accept me or don't because I accept myself and that is enough for me!" This is the true freedom. Eventually perhaps the world will follow. That would be nice wouldn't it? But for those of us coming out of the shadows? Well, just getting out is a battle. Perhaps the war belongs to others. Shrug.....who knows, huh bud? :battle: LOL! Ah yes; the great paradox. The teachers become the students! That is what I love, love, love about my daughters. Every day,they teach me more about the world and about myself. Oh Jackie, can you imagine what a gift it would be to meet my son and daughter? To learn about their journeys and what they have to say; what wisdom they can contribute to my life so that I can be a better person? I bet they are remarkable people! Thanks for the CUB info. I am looking forward to going forward. Jackie, the gift of education and compassion you bless my life with cannot be measured. :love: Much love and peace your way today! Janey

Janeytwo I know they have meet ups.. conventions or something like that.. The lies.. and the secrets.. I swear keep us down.. Keep us in our places.. I am heading off to work on a watercolor.. Jackie