Which presidential candidate will be pro-adoption?

The what if ideas are really all over the thread! ;) Sure, it's true. If everyone around the globe practiced abstinence until marriage (and then methods of family planning during marriage...whether natural or man made) then abortion, adoption, disease, various businesses and a host of other areas would be altered forever (big biz in all of those areas...lots of money, lots of jobs, lots of people don't want this to change). But we're not headed in that direction, so we instead address the current reality. Like you mentioned, assisting those who wish to parent. Michelle, I wanted to ask and hope it's ok to. If it's not I totally understand of course. Was there something that would have assisted you more in your decision? What support would have helped you get to a point where fear was not the factor? I hope that's an appropriate first step quesiton and not viewed as too forward.

That's quite possible. I was only commenting on the story I've heard Cindy McCain herself describe. She seemed to revel in the fact that her husband had no idea what was going on until she introduced the dauughter to him. I didn't like that-- it doesn't suggest that the family put much thought into the idea of adopting this child (let alone the child she brought back for a friend), and while I don't know that anything was done illegally-- and I was careful not to say that it was-- I have a hard time seeing the McCain's last adoption as one that makes me warm and fuzzy about him. With that said, I agree that having a pro adoption president really won't mean much day to day for adoptive and prospective adoptive families. That's a local level issue. I have heard Cindy McCain say that adoption would be her focus as first lady-- so she may have some influence there. Again, though, I would have difficulty having her as the spokesperson. Just my thoughts. Char

Looking back 18 years ago I realize how young I was and how differently I see the world now which of course impacts my thinking. I have thought about your question for the better part of 18 years and honestly there is so much to discuss about it.First~I was in crisis mode! I had a boyfriend who was absolutely NO support, he wanted me to have an abortion and when I wouldn't he stuck his head in the sand and pretended like it would go away. I needed someone who would discuss options with me, I was living in Florida with NO family, none. I had no one but my boyfriend and his family and he refused to tell them I was pregnant. After 7 long months of battling what to do in my head, I thought about adoption, called an agency and was told that it was the best thing I could do for my child if I loved him. He would have parents that could provide a future for him, love him, take trips around the world, have opportunities that I wouldn't be able to give to him. Those words are the words I heard from the agency I called and I believed them. At 19 with no family, no support and fear that my baby would grow up on welfare these were the words I needed to hear. I couldn't see past the moment, I couldn't see that I was strong enough to "push on" and make a life for my child. I remember a few things from 18 years ago and the one that I think about most is this.......I told the counselor at the agency that I didn't want my son to grow up and not have the things that other kids had, I didn't want him to ever want for anything, that was true but looking back I wish she had told me that just because today looks that way doesn't always mean tomorrow will, KWIM? I was looking at his life 5 years down the line, who can look that far in and tell the outcome? I just wish someone would have said "Slow down and think, you won't be 19 forever and everyone goes through financially hard times"I am rambling, this is a very hard month for me as my birth son turned 18 last week. Maybe none of this makes sense to anyone but me and I am only speaking of my situation but I continue to wish that instead of making abortion and adoption the only options in an unplanned pregnancy that parenting would at least be discussed with every e-mom who is feeling like she just can't do it. It was 2 short years before birth dad and I were married and having our second child together, I could have done it.

We've "spoken" before via internet when our adoption was being contested. I so appreciate your honesty and non-bias toward adoptive families when you speak online. I know that the biological mothers of 3 of our children placed because they had to -- the system did (or would have) placed their children into foster care because of their issues. I've never had to feel guilt about those adoptions. But, in our last adoption, the biological mother did not have the support of the baby's biological father (he said things like "I'll help when I can"). Her parents did not want her into a relationship with this young man and so encouraged her to place her child because she had made so many "unfortunate" decisions in terms of him. In any event, my heart still aches for her and for you (Michelle) in what you must have felt and are still feeling over placing your child for adoption. I have no words but to wanna hug you tight because I still can't get past the "adoption is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." You are an outstanding mother, life goes on, somehow we all find a way to make it work. I know that we are incredibly blessed -- it's just hard to know that others carry hurtful hearts forever because of our blessings. Thanks for your input. Your friend,Josie

That's what it should all be about, joskids.:love: to mommy24, too. As for race and the race. My sister makes calls all day long (I know, she's one of those), and she has told me that, of those she speaks to in the midwest--WI, MI, IA, etc.--who are anti-Obama, sooner or later it often comes down to being uncomfortable with his race. The what-if is very illuminating--regardless of the facts or accuracy--the comparison of the average reaction to a black person in certain situations and a white person in the same situations is very different. To say that it is not is dishonest IMO. The last and most intransigent racial frontier or barrier is the subconscious prejudice. The assertion that "I am not a racist" by any person in this country is just simply false. You cannot be born here, raised here, imprinted here, without some nonverbal prejudice--of which you may be unaware, of which you would consciously disapprove and disavow, but which "colors" your thinking and most importantly your actions nevertheless. Until every person who does not want to be racist takes a good, hard, long, honest look at their reactions in terms of feelings, not just desired thoughts--perhaps using a trigger sheet like that e-mail--there will always be racism. It is not enough to not mean to be racist or not want to be racist. We all have to go beyond that. It's like the concept of "tolerance." Years ago, progressive people talked about being "tolerant." We recognize that "tolerance" is not enough, simple tolerance still has a negative effect. Now we understand that we must not just tolerate difference, we must embrace it. As for the conservative point of view, I can't understand it. If you don't want socialism, why would you vote Republican? Who just nationalized our banking system and the financial foundations of the country? Republicans!! If you don't want more abortions performed in this country, why would you vote Republican? Whose policies--no health-based sex ed, restricted access to birth control--will, absolutely guaranteed, lead to far MORE abortions? Republicans!! If you don't want big government or government debt, why would you vote Republican? Who just finished, in real dollars, the greatest expansion of both big government and big government debt ever seen in this country? Republicans!! Whose plans have been shown by independent financial experts to lead to a far bigger government budget than the other guy's? John McCain's!! If you don't want government in your personal business, why would you vote Republican? Who has made it a law that even your librarian must report the books you check out? Republicans!! If you want your individual rights as guaranteed by the Constitution, why would you vote Republican? Who came up with the so-called Patriot Act to rob you of those liberties? Republicans!! Who, for example, wants to listen to your phone calls and made it possible for government to do so with no cause? Republicans!! If you want Americans to build America and stay out of the world's mess, why would you vote Republican? Who took us into the first and only unprovoked war in our history? Republicans!! Who is spending $10 billion a MONTH on a foreign civil war? Republicans!! And the list goes on and on. EVERYTHING so-called conservatives say they are for the Republican administration and platform has been against, everything so-called conservatives say they are against, the Republican administration and platform has been for. Can someone please explain to me why people insist on voting against what they say they are for? I am genuinely puzzled by what seems to me to be an absolute contradiction in what people say they want and their vote.

Quote: Originally Posted by ChromaKelly Back up a bit - don't most conservatives think sex is for marriage only? So if everyone practiced abstinence until marriage, then wouldn't there be no or very few babies available for adoption? The what if ideas are really all over the thread! [QUOTE=binkybear]The what if ideas are really all over the thread! ;) QUOTE] Yes, I'm one of those old fashioned people that believes sex best if it's saved for marriage. This might be TMI but I was a virgin until my wedding night at age 22. I dated my husband for 3 years & at times it was very hard but in the end I feel like we did the right thing & that made our wedding & honeymoon that much more special. Anyway, I try not to be judgmental of others though because everyone has to make their own choices. It's a weird thing to think that in order for us to get what we've been hoping & praying for (a baby girl) someone else has to have made that choice. And I'm far from thinking I'm better than anyone else because of my choices. (I'd be lying if I said I didnt believe I made the "better" choice, but that doesnt make me a better person.) I think birthmothers are wonderful people who are probably a lot less selfish than I am & if/when one chooses us it'll be a gift. Last month we got to talk to a birthmother (she ended up choosing another couple) & she said something that left me speechless. She said when she found out she was pregnant she thought of having an abortion but she thought it would be a better idea to give her baby to a couple who couldnt have children. To me that's what adoption is all about! She seemed so mature & levelheaded & I was crushed when we found out she didnt choose us. I hope that when we finally do get matched we can provide our baby with the kind of life her birthmother hopes for her.

MB80, unfortunately, sometimes that's not what adoption is about (a biological mother thinking it a better idea to give her baby to a couple who couldn't have children). Sometimes it's about the lesser of two very, very difficult choices. No one should ever have to make either of those choices. But this is life and the reality is that women are having to make difficult choices every single day -- often times because they don't have the support of the men in their lives because they've given them much too much credit. I give you an awful lot of credit for waiting until your wedding night. Although, even married women have had to make the choice to place their babies for adoption. We just cannot know what the future will hold for any of us. We just need to support each other as women, because, frankly, oftentimes the men in our lives just can't stand up to the plate and consider the bigger picture. Thank God for the man in my life who not only accepted my 4 biological children with open arms, but went on to love the 4 children that were born to another man and woman. I know how incredibly lucky I have to have him by my side. I wish the same for every other woman out there struggling with so much less.

LOL - Hadley this has confused me for a long time as well! Especially the part about big government and big government debt. Why are the republicans still looked upon as the party of fiscal conservatism given the growth of government of the past 8 years? I mean I realize the democrats aren't great about these issues either, but the republicans seem far worse over the past decade as far as I can tell. If any conservative wants to weigh in on Hadley's questions, I'd be very curious.

Hadley, I "think" the "easiest" answer to that is really that the Republicans are much better politicians than the Democrats and have "mastered the rhetoric." I mean the repubs have coined terms like "family values" (who would say they are "against" that?!); the "death tax" (instead of the estate tax...do people know that the first 600K of an estate is "tax free"...instead it offends bob middle class who will never have more than $600K to pass on by calling it the "death tax"). Oh yeah, my personal favorite: "The Patriot Act" which is about the LEAST patriotic thing in the world and has cut into so many freedoms that people just so willy nilly are willing to let go of (our founding fathers would be shocked! shocked!) My list could go on and on. I think about Bush making John Kerry into sort of a "nonhero" in Vietnam and Kerry just "took it" and didn't fight back. If you watch the movie Recount, you realize that Warren Christopher really didn't get the 'punch em out/sock em out" politics that needed to be done. I know people don't like to hear this. I personally wish things were more civilized. But they haven't been for years and I really think Obama is running a great campaign and refusing to take the punches. Maybe the Dems have caught on. Unfortunately, we are really a "sound bite" society and that's the way campaigns are being run. OK, rant over!!! Btw, I do believe in family preservation. And it saddens me when people place solely for financial reasons...my aunt was a single mom and really struggled when her DD was born....several years later she got a great job, married a millionaire, etc. But I do also know that that is probably more of an "aberration" than not. Also, I do believe that there are many "non financial" reasons that women place children and I believe that pregnant women should really know all of their options and make the decisions that are best for them at that time.

I'm one of those women who placed because of financial reasons. I truly believed that I couldn't give my child everything he would need and he was SO sick when he was born. I didn't have insurance and his father wasn't interested in him at all. What was I supposed to do with a baby near death in the hospital? I also believe in taking responsibility for my choices and I was the one that chose to have sex with a man that wasn't ready to be a father. We were protected, but that doesn't always work. I wasn't going to go to either of our parents and beg for help. My parents had just gotten their youngest out of the house, as if they needed me and a baby moving back in. They certainly would have taken us in, but that wasn't what I wanted for my child. The idea that somehow I owe to people who are more "responsible" or better than me somehow because of their sexual choices is saddening and angering. All it does is perpetuate the idea that women who place their children aren't responsible and that we sleep around. I truly believed that I would be with my child's father forever. I wasn't going to marry him, I'm divorced, I don't want to be married again, but I planned to be with him forever. Well life doesn't let us have what we want sometimes and I had to go my own way. I like my son's adoptive parents for the most part. They are nice people and great parents to him, that is all I wanted. I won't ever believe though that it was my job to make them parents. I made a heartbreaking choice to give my son what I believed I couldn't, whether I could have or not is a moot point, I believed I couldn't at that time. I also don't believe that it was my firstmother's job to make my mom and dad parents. Do I love my mom and dad? More than any of you could ever know, they are my world, they are the only people that have always been there for me. I am so lucky to have them. They have never felt anyone owed them a child though because they couldn't get pregnant. They just happened to be there when I needed a home. I'm sorry that people have to experience IF, truly, it isn't fair that I could get pregnant when I wasn't ready and people that REALLY want kids can't for whatever reason. I wish that the world was a perfect place and that none of this ever had to happen and that kids were always born right where they should be. But it isn't that way. I made the heartbreaking choice to give away my motherhood, and I will never be a mother. Please don't tell me I can adopt, because I won't. In my heart, I can't do that. I really admire people that take in kids that have been hurt by their parents, I can't do that either. I love my job and I can't work with damaged kids and then come home to more behaviours, it wouldn't be fair to anyone. So, I'll love my cat, I'll love my parents, I'll love my son, I'll love my brothers, and I'll love my boyfriend. Sometimes though, I really wish that the descriptor, just plain old mom was in my future.

Belle, I certainly hope that all 8 of my children (birthed or adopted) feel the way about me that you feel about your parents. They must be extremely proud of the woman you have become! Thanks for your post.

"I also believe in taking responsibility for my choices and I was the one that chose to have sex with a man that wasn't ready to be a father. We were protected, but that doesn't always work. I wasn't going to go to either of our parents and beg for help. My parents had just gotten their youngest out of the house, as if they needed me and a baby moving back in. They certainly would have taken us in, but that wasn't what I wanted for my child." You know, I am all for taking responsibility for choices as well - but can any of us really say that we haven't made a single choice that could have ended badly but didn't? Why do some people that have unprotected sex get HIV, while others just get lucky? Others drive drunk and kill a car full of people, while others get away with it time after time. You get my drift.. Anyways, I guess all I am saying is that it is easy for us to say about others "Well, they made a bad choice and so just have to live with the consequences"...but can any of us say we haven't done the same and just gotten lucky at one time or another? I think it is a horrible thing when wealthy countries such as the ones we live in still have people surrendering their children because of money, or lack of it. When our countries house the richest people in the world (as in billionaires) while others can't pay their hospital bills - something is seriously wrong. I also think we have created a society that believes in money - as in money is more important than family in many cases. Whew...what a downer... Thanks for your post Belle - what an eye-opener!

Jo, My firstmom is one of those mom's that was married. My firstdad died about two months after I was conceived and she was already raising five children, all my full brothers and sister. I highly doubt that she was thrilled that she could provide a couple with a baby.

Thank you for your reply Michelle, especially since your emotions are so front and center with your son turning 18. I appreciate your honesty. I'm 100% onboard with you in that parenting must be discussed, esp with an emom who feels as though she can't. If someone does not wish to parent at that time then the discussion would be different, but feeling you can't has to be countered with how you could. I'm not afraid of asking these questions of our SW. To me it feels like I'm ensuring that our family has a foundation of honesty from the get go. I couldn't do this any other way. We were motivated by the ethics of an agency...not timing, speed or ease. I couldn't do it any other way. ----- other topics: To those calling all Republicans... I'm a conservative because of my beliefs. As I've stated in other threads I don't agree with every single point, idea or ideal. But for the issues that matter the most, to me, I'm conservative. Who in this world changes who they are because of another's mistake or mismanagement? I'm not going to change my core ideas because someone else executed them poorly. Just like I'm not going to cease being Catholic because of another man's poor choices. Like I've said in several other threads I will not attack the next guy to make a point. If I have to make a point it will be about what I am, and not what the other guy is not....isn't that what we all want/wanted from the politicians? I have enough conviction not to have to go there, it's not beneficial to myself or to those with differing views. Hope that helps you get it a little more and if you don't...well then that's the beauty of it all, you don't have to! You can vote your very own mind and I'm incredibly happy that you can. To thine own self be true. Yah know?

Josie~ Thank you! Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, ya know? It is easy now to look back and see that I could have done it, but then! Oh my!Just try to remember this, with all of my hurt, I still have the blessing of knowing that my son is loved and well taken care of. Regardless of my regrets and my own pain, I chose her to do what I didn't think I could do at the time and she has done a fabulous job raising a wonderful young man that I can proudly call my son!I found a family for him because that is what I needed to do at the time.It's sorta ironic to me, adoption is not the only thing we can all look back on and think "Hmm, I should have done this or I should have done that" I think that is what we all do with many situations in our lives and quite honestly, other than here, I do not dwell on the "what could have been's" "what should have been". It is what it is and I did the best I could do at the time, right or wrong.Anyway, I have rambled enough, thanks again for the encouragement to you and to all here at A.com that make it easier to deal with.:grouphug: