Catholics and the Election

Binky you have stated that you are a catholic, living in the belief of the Catholic faith, correct? If I am correct then you are stating that you believe as the Catholics believe, correct? So, you are ANTI-MURDER of a child, not just a fetus. This IS your belief, correct? You continue to say that you are just stating the FACTS, but the facts are that the belief isn't just that murdering fetuses is wrong but that murder of any kind is wrong. I am not sure why you won't take a stance on that, but it is your right. I simply asked a question, you danced around it. Fine.And to clarify, I haven't seen anyone call you names. As a moderator, I would not tolerate that as it is specified in our TOS that respectful participation is required and that surely would NOT be respectful.A good debate is always welcome though.

Okay, Binky, this is the second time you've alluded to people calling you names on this thread. What are you talking about? Are there posts that are invisible to me? I haven't seen or heard anybody calling you names here. You see, Binky, I have no "issues" with my faith, nor do I need to resolve anything about my faith. The main thing I have been trying to point out to you, unsuccessfully it seems, is that the only One who can judge my beliefs or accountability for which lever I pull in the election booth is our Lord, Jesus Christ. Not any of my fellow Catholics, even the ones here on my favorite Forum. My faith and my beliefs and my intentions are only seen clearly by God, not by my fellow man. And believe me, if I was in conflict with our Lord, He'd be the first One to let me know!One final thought... I will always stand up and let my voice be heard whenever I see people trying to tell other people who are and who are not real Christians or Catholics. A lot of bad stuff goes down in the name of Christianity, and I think the Lord gets blamed for a lot of things that should be layed at the feet of mortal men and women. I am bone weary of seeing how many people have been hurt and continue to be hurt in the name of the Lord, when He's not to blame. Too many people have left Him because they've been hurt by the Church, by its representatives and by its members. Jesus Christ does not put up barriers on who can join the Church. He is the One who knocks on the doors of our hearts. And if we open that door, He is ecstatic. I'm just really saddened and angered when I see people who judge others on their so-called merits and opinions. That is just my own opinion and my own views....

I've been called a few, no big whoop. Can I ask...are you Catholic? Not that it really matters for the discussion, just curious. My post above yours answers your concerns.

Ok, let me calrify...I'm not talking to "you" alone. I'm speaking to anyone who would read this thread. I'm not bold enough to think I could resolve "you" of anything. I'm just a person talking and making very clear points backed by fact. That's it. I given people what they wanted, the POPE gave it actually..not me :) don't stand up to me....stand up to the Church if it's what one truly feels. nothing I've said or others have posted in quotes is untruth. The Church is clear and we all have free will to be a Catholic or not be a Catholic according to what the Catholic Church teaches. Again, that just is what it is. It's not anything personal, it's just fact.

I am not Catholic, I am Baptist. I do serve the same God though. I am Pro-Choice. I do believe in the death penalty and I own my opinions. As for your above post answering my questions, I still don't understand how one (not you necessarily) can condemn someone for aborting a fetus yet think it is ok to go in and kill innocent children in other countries? I just can't wrap my head around that.Anyway, I am not much on political debates, this one tends to send me into a tailspin. So, I will bow out of this and go to bed and pray to God for peace in this fallen world we live in.Best of luck to you!

You're right, we do....but I can't speak to the Baptist faith, teachings, etc. It wouldn't be fair of me as I have no understanding of, education to, and I'm not living it as a commitment. I can't say anything else to your concern other than maybe write a letter to the Vatican. And that's not snark, I just don't know what esle to say to make it any clearer for you and you're wanting to wrap your head around. But you're not Catholic so I guess in a way it's worked out for you, you needn't worry about what The Church expects, as you are living your own faith in full.

Sigh, I really don't want to get into this. My faith comes from my God, not from a church or a man who tells me how to live.So, I got your point loud and clear, since I am not Catholic I have no business posting here. Got it. I never called your church into question, I do or did have questions on how murder is not seen as murder, however it comes to be...*shrugs*

Unless you have some preconceived idea of my tone or writings I'm not saying anything like that. There was/is no snide tone from me. Imagine a very calm smooth voice trying to hold a mature conversation and being honest in an across the table kind of way. I was being positive in what I wrote, only thinking something preconceived about me could take it to a negative tone. I'm simply talking and answering all the questions being sent my way. Again, I'm just one gal, up way too late, defending her faith, her Church and trying her best to make valid points to what is being asked of me. That's all.

Isn't this the same arguement you used with me - saying I really have no right to post on topics of US politics since I don't live there? Wow - lots of exclusive clubs out there. But, it's all masked in "these aren't my beliefs...I'm just saying" or hidden behind emoticoms...why not just say what you mean? And Ed - first of all - I am kind of surprsied no one else is as angry as I am about what you said to me. I am only responding as I care about what some other people on here think about me, and this one is way too important to let go. I said "some" people view the US government (NOT PEOPLE) as terrorists - and this was in context of the conversation that was happening. Have you travelled outside the US lately? Cause people around the world aren't feeling so good about the US right now...I did NOT say those were my views, nor did I EVER even allude to that being my belief. I will state clearly for the record that in NO WAY do I think innocent people "got what they deserved". Don't put such evil words in my mouth.

Wow, Karyn, I just read this thread. I have to say I agree with you and support your opinions. There are many places in the world where there are Saddam like tyrants. Yet we chose Iraq because of it's vast oil reserves. People are naive to think otherwise. I also have a really hard time with "pro-life" Christians who believe in war, capital punishment and cutting social programs. Jesus said "Whatever you do for the least of my brothers, that you do unto me." I prefer to listen to Jesus than the Pope. But then again, I am a "cultural Catholic". Catholic born and raised, but left the church because there were too many men telling me what to think and feel.

Wow, talk about "ever evolving". Couldn't wait to log on and see where this has gone. As for what religion anyone is, Baptist or Catholic or Witness or Buddhist or Muslim -- the choice is so incredibly personal. I must be the "odiot" (our family word) here because some of this has no reference and makes no definite point. Michelle - I think you have every right to comment on a very public thread as a Baptist about things that are said by a Catholic. Karyn - I think you also have every right to state what you believe other nations think of our government -- even though you are not an American citizen. This is a public thread. If you are not certain about your views and how to answer some of the very poignant and introspective questions being asked to you -- don't slough it off by claiming someone else on this thread that disagreed with you may not be Catholic or American and has less right to express their very valid opinions. Jesus preached LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING. And, as I said earlier, our priest is pro Obama. Trust me, our Catholic church could be very different from another -- which is why we both love it so much -- those of us raised in a more traditional Catholic church and the Jesuit-schooled member of this household.

Amen, to that, Brenda!! Can we get an Alleluia??? Men run the Catholic church. Do you think it's even remotely possibly that some of the church's agenda leans towards the support of men and not women? I still love my Catholic church, but I have every right in God's world to disagree with it. I still just cannot get myself to believe that a just God would take issue with what spirituality we choose -- as long as we follow what I consider the most important commandment -- "Do unto others".

No. I never said that someone should not speak to any idea or thread. I clearly state that "I" could not speak ot the Baptist faith, that we do serve under the same God in Christianity and that all I can offer is what I am offering in answers. I've answered the posts, questions, accustations, and alike all night. I haven't bailed and I haven't been dishonest, I'm sorry that people do not agree with or appreciate my faith. I am here on this thread speaking to what I am, My Church. That's it. You're point is not the same. This thread is not an exclusive club. But in order for you, me, and all of man to be "Catholic" there are indeed Rites, Sacraments, and very basic beliefs you simply must hold dear. The most basic, the most non debatable in the Catholic Church is "the Right to Life" "Lfe begins at the moment of Conception" AND the American Catholic Vote as it relates. That had never waivered yesterdy, today or tomorrow. That's is this thread and that is/has been the point of my posting.

Quoting for reference, talking to thread as a whole. Yes, one does have every right to disagree with it. In this thread for example I have personally never stated otherwise. BUT the thread is about Catholic Voting as it directly reltates to the "Right to Life" "The moment of conception". The Catholic Churh is incredibly clear in other factual quotes out here. To the degree that a vote for the support of the contrary. Again, that's not "me" judging anyone in or out of the faith, it just is what it is. I know, believe me after this thread, I KNOW people don't like that...but it is what it is. This is not my personal truth or personal reality. I know we all use that phrase out here to dfend our take on issues. This is the truth and reality of The Catholic Church in reagards to this topic here. I will be taking a printed copy today for further discussion, guidance and conversation...I guess I can only suggest that others with further questions do the same. I've answered all night to the best of my ability in fairness and fact. That's really all I, one Catholic, can do out here :)

Too hot...sorry.... This topic is not available for discussion from this point forward. Any new thread started will be deleted and the originator of the new thread will be banned from the Political Forum.