Need your input on a situation

I agree that you should request proof of her illness before making any decision. I would also like to say that in my opinion the motive for this "mother" to see her children is purely selfish. She should also be trying to decide what would be best for her children. Some one had posted on a different thread questioning if an amom is capable of loving her achild as much as the bmom is. Well, this post answers the question - in my mind. The mom who loves her child enough to put the child's best interest before her own is the one that is the true mom here. In this case, that would be the amom. Reminds me of that story from the bible about Solomen and the baby with two mothers who both claimed him. He decided that the one who put the child's best interest first is the mom who deserved to have the child. Best of luck with your decision. It's not an easy one.

Respectfully, I have to REALLY disagree with this. I'm a firstmom and I absolutely love my child. If I were dying, yes, I would want to see her. I would want my child's parents to know...I would want to reach out to them so that my daughter KNEW without a doubt that I loved her. I think it's VERY presumptuous for you to assume you know the motivation behind this woman's contact. The fact is, that none of us do. And for all we know, a child in this situation may value that visit for their entire life.

I answered on your other thread, but not sure which you are reading, so will post here too. If these were my children's mom, and I could confirm the diagnosis and terminal end, I would have the visit. I'd not involve the boyfriend or any of that mess, and there would be some boundaries spelled out. I personally would not be able to say to my child as an adult "Well, you had a chance to meet her but I said no, and now she's dead." I've always said I will support my kids if they choose to search and if I know it's not going to be a possibility as an adult, then I have to make that choice for them.

I think there is always room for a little compassion, no matter if someone "deserves" it or not. As far as this woman being "purely selfish", I have to disagree...vehemently. None of us know her at all. I think it's dangerous to make assumptions, especially assumptions based on the fact that she lost her kids due to poor choices. She very well may have terminal cancer. If she wrote the court stating this as a fact, she could be held in contempt if it's a lie. IMHO, children are not the only human beings on the planet who have needs and interests. Adults do too. To automatically assume that the child's best interests do not include visiting a dying birthmother seems a bit far-fetched to me. To assume that a dying birthmother's wish to see her relinquished children is selfish is a bit far-fetched, too.

Raven, not to play the "lawyer card" (haha), but actually a letter to the court that is not under oath is really meaningless. Someone could only get in "trouble" if they swore to something under oath like an an affidavit or in testimony (not that I expect the birth mom to do this, but I think I would ask for some confirmation of the diagnosis). I do agree, however, that a dying (or even a healthy)woman's desire to see her children is not selfish. I would definitely consider that in the analysis (which is why I would probably do it, imo, if I thought it wouldn't really harm my DD...it's hard for me to put myself in that situation since we have an OA situation).

I have to say it has been a long week, going back and forth on my feelings regarding our ad and her bmom. I appreciate everyone who has responded to my thread. I can not tell you how much it has helped. I have talked to the three other families who have adopted the siblings. Right now we are all kind of in shock. I am in a bit of a tough spot because unlike the other families I spent a lot of time with the birthmom during the course of two years. I always made a point to sit down and talk to her about what was going on in her child’s life. I also spent time with her in NICU when the youngest child was born. We sat for hours and she told me stories about her life and her family. Those things I can pass on. But my tough spot is the other families say I know birthmom best so they are waiting for me to decide what we are going to do. I keep telling them that they must decide what is best for their child(ren). We have still not received our copy of the letter. So I am hoping to get a copy from one of the other families. At this point this is what I am thinking. Write a letter back to birthmom with an update regarding our ad. I am not sure if I will send a picture. I will also tell her that if she will send confirmation of diagnosis and the prognosis we will reconsider. I will also let her know that if she wants to write a letter, send pictures and/or a gift we will make sure our ad get’s it. The other thing I am thinking of doing is contacting the therapist who did a bonding and attachment assessment on all the children and the adoptive families (the division was trying to decide between placing all the kids in one home or letting the adoptive homes adopt the children separately). This therapist has helped us with other situations that have come up with two of the families and we trust her. Please keep your thoughts coming. We really want to look at all sides of this issue. Thank you for all of your help with this. You will never know how much I appreciate it.

It seems as if I've offended some birthmoms. I wasn't speaking of all birthmoms, I was referring to this one in particular. And I still believe she appears to be a selfish woman. She chose an abuser over her own children. Not to mention the drugs and protitution. She claims to have terminal cancer and all of a sudden wants to see her children before she dies, with no mention or question as to how this visit would affect these children she brought into the world. I see nothing wrong with sending the bmother a picture and an update about how your daughter is doing. If her condition is verified, perhaps even a video of her children would be a good idea. That way she could "see" them without putting the children through any emotional distress of seeing this woman on her deathbed who may say things these young children are not prepared to hear or handle. Some one had mentioned that maybe she could make a video and write a letter for each of her children to have when they are older. That would also be a good idea so that these children have a way of knowing who their bmom was when they are older.

Wishfulthinker - I wasn't offended as a birthmother. I was simply pointing out that there is always a place for compassion, even compassion for selfish people. I've attended many deathbeds over the years, and I've seen many complicated family situations. I once saw the adult children of a man dying of cancer come to his deathbed after 40 years or so of being estranged from him. The dying man was a total pain in the butt, and I hate to admit it, but I actually detested him. But his grown children taught me a heavy lesson in forgiveness and compassion that day...it's stuck with me all of my life. I have seen drug addiction up close, as close as you can get without being addicted. It is a disease, not a moral weakness or sin. I wrote a thread about a year ago in memory of my best friend from childhood, an adoptee named Julie. She became a heroin addict and prostitute at the age of 18. She died in my arms about 12 years ago, when we were both 42 years old. No, I didn't socialize with her as an adult, other than holiday dinners at her mom's house. And I guess you could call her selfish...her drugs always came first. But I saw up close the ravages of the disease of addiction. Believe me when I say that Julie never ever envisioned becoming a heroin addict when we grew up; that was not her goal in life. I also know that Julie had one of the kindest hearts of anyone I've ever known, that she was the most spiritual person I've ever met, and was one of the most loving people on this planet. And I know that she deserved compassion on her deathbed...and forgiveness. I don't know what the OP's religious beliefs are...that's why I asked her in my first post if she has a trusted pastor, priest, or rabbi she can talk to. There is value in compassion and forgiveness in all religions. I know that the Christian faith places great store in showing compassion to "the least of these". I guess I'm thinking more in terms of the spiritual aspect of this situation. The older I get, it seems the less hardened my heart becomes. Maybe that's wrong, I don't know. All I'm saying is if this woman is truly dying, show her some mercy. All of us are in need of mercy and compassion at some point in our lives. :loveyou:

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I can imagine the shock of getting such a letter. i do think I would try to confirm her diagnosis, just because she has had issues in the past does not mean she is not being truthful about her illness. IF she is dying from cancer then you do have some serious thinking to do about what is best for your daughter Now and 10-15 years down the road.[/FONT] [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]First, let me say that you are a very compassionate, caring person to take the time and concern that you have for your daughters Bmom.

Sadly, it sounds like your daughters Bmom has had a rough time in life, it's nice to know there are people out there like you that have compassion and can look past the choices someone has made and still reach out to them.

Second....Very hard for you to have your daughters bsibs parents looking to see what decision you make before deciding, I understand the other families looking to you to see what your thoughts are since you spent time with the Bmom and probably know her best. But..........they need to realize that whatever decision you make you are making for YOUR Daughter, not their children aynd they need to make their own choices based on how the feel their child would do with seeing their bmom or how they would deal with the news 10-15 years down the road if they didnt see her and she had passed away [/FONT] [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Leigh, I think your "plan" as stated above is an excellant one in the situation.

I'd def want confirmation of her diagnosis, and I would certainly want to talk to a child psychologist or psychiatrist about the situation, if she does have terminal cancer on how to talk to your daughter about it, if he/she thinks it is a good idea.

If you did proceed with visit, I do think I would have it very controlled - bmom only - no boyfriend, set some guidelines as to what conversation is to be allowed - you may not want her bringing up the cancer to your daughter at the visit.

If you said, I missed it but do you have visits with your daughter's siblings? If you do and any of the other parents decide to allow a visit, maybe you could all meet together - might be easier on the kids - say at a park or a Mcdonalds playland, somewhere where the kids are not in a "forced" meeting, they can be kids, she can watch them and if they are up to it interact - just a thought; but I'd def talk to a child professional if you do decide to go thru with the visit and see what they suggest.

You are in a very hard position and I do wish you the very best in making what has to be a very hard choice.

I do not wish cancer on anyone, but I do hope the bmom is not lying about this; I know there are people who will feign serious/terminal illness for attention.

As far as her life choices, they certainly do not appear to be great ones, but I will say, to those who have replied negatively about bmom, that unless you have been in her shoes, you do not know why she made those choice, even though they were not great choices, I dont think she should be critizied by those who do not personally know her. Leigh, there is a place in heaven for people like you who reach out, even to those who appear hopeless.:flowergift:

I have in the past worked with women in abusive relationships who just could not leave the abuser - they felt they deserved what they got, they were so physically and emotionally downtrodden that they had absolutely NO self-esteem and could not see that they did not deserve what they were getting. Even with professional counseling, some people in abusive relationships just cannot get out, nor can some people give up drugs even with rehab. I am Not by any means saying that the choices she made were good, I'm just saying she shouldnt be judged, if anything some prayers for her would be nice JMHO

OK, I've rambled on probably too long :rolleyes: [/FONT]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Raven, seems you posted while my brain and fingers were working, I agree sometimes compassion is needed where it most seems like it should not to most people [/FONT]:flower:

LeighM I am glad that you are getting some kind of direction in this from therapists. You are right; this is a situation that requires a lot of weighing out. I will have to ask to be forgiven for my original response to your thread. It wasn't clear then that you'd spent several years with the birthmom. I was posting back under the assumption she had simply shown up "out of the blue" so to speak, and that you had no idea who she was. I think that's because I'm from the Closed Era and think that way automatically. Yet, from your second post it sounds as if she opened up to you a good deal and spent quite a bit of time with you. Perhaps then in knowing her somewhat you can make a more informed decision as to her motives. Wishfulthinker I feel compelled to clarify that my issues with the bmom have nothing at all to do with drugs and/or prostitution. I have been in AlAnon far too long to judge any one else on either of those accounts because any one of us by chance or history could end up in either of those situations. Never say never. The most compassionate human being I ever met was a an ex-heroin addict, ex-prostitute. She forgot more about kindness than I'll ever learn. Anita - wherever God's sent you next, I thank you for being my friend while you were here.:grouphug:

As someone who has seen addiction first hand in my own family, and have lost several family members to it, I have to comment on this. I'm not trying to make excuses for the birthmom, but addiction is something that is so very difficult to get a handle on, and it has nothing to do with selfishness. It's hard for many people to imagine someone not just "snapping out of it" for the sake of their children, but it just doesn't work that way. As for "choosing" an abuser, well, again, is she really choosing him or is she terrified to leave or being threatened, etc.? We don't know the whole story here, and if I were making this decision, I would try to find some compassion for her situation without letting her manipulate me, if that makes sense. Her being a prostitute should not have any bearing on the decision, as I'm assuming if there is to be a visit, it will be very structured and supervised. I mean, it's not like the kids will be seeing her with her pimp, or on the streets being exposed to any customers! I'm assuming she is prostituting to support her drug addiction and the abusive boyfriend may also be pimping her out. I feel for anyone in that situation. It is a downward spirial that is extremely difficult to come out from under. OP, I would seek out the therapist you worked with before and get his or her opinion of this situation. I would also want proof of diagnosis and to also know if it was, in fact, terminal, though I don't think I would deny the request if it was not terminal, but I would want to know so I could decide how I wanted to prepare my daughter for her death. I don't think your child needs to know all the gory details, or even if she needs to know "birthmom is dying" at this time. Can she be told she is very ill, and would like to have a visit to cheer her up or something that a young child could better cope with, rather than going into the whole story (assuming it's true) of her bmom dying of cancer and this is the last time she'll get to see her?? It's probably best, if you allow this visit, to keep things very simple and not go into all the deep stuff. And definitely make it with just bmom. Tough decision, but I'm sure you will decide what is best.

To the OP: I originally read your post a few days ago and came across it again this morning. I am going to answer based on what I think I would do if I were in this situation. Sorry this is going to be a bit of a rambling answer. My daughter is age 7 (she is developmentally probably more like 5), we are in a closed adoption, she was placed in foster care at 5 months old and has not had visits since she was 1.5 years old (tpr happened then). My daughter was removed for Medical Neglect and other circumstances, that make it different from your daughters background. She was placed with us at age 2.5 years old. My daughter knows she was adopted, she does not really talk about it or ask about her first family. I talk about it ocasionally and answer any questions she has. I show her the few pictures we were given of her first family and tell them how much she was loved. I also have enough info that we can help her search for them when she is older if that is something she would like to do. Now that you have our background..... If this were to happen to us, I would also like confirmation of the illness. I would prepare my daughter to meet "mommys____". By showing her the pics etc. I would be very honest with my daughter and explain things to her in a very simple way. I would also tell her she was sick, my daughter has some pretty severe medical issues, she understands illness and unfortunatley death more than the average child, so this might not be the same for you. I would take picture's of them together and we said her prayers we would mentiion "mommys________". If she were to die I would tell her "mommy___" was in heaven or something like that. My daughter's beloved cousin died last year and her Grandfater died when she was 3 so she understands those concepts as much as a young child can. I would only do all this because I feel that she deserves to know and it would help her in later years. I think I would really have to consider the long-term ramifiications of this situaton. And to be honest when I orignally read your post I thought I would do nothing because my daugher doesn't know her firstmom never asks about her etc. But after contemplating everything, I think this is what I would do. NOW, I am not telling you this is what you should do at all! Please know I am just telling you MY thoughts and what I think I would do. I really just feel for you and your daughter and wanted to send my thoughts your way. Okay I've rambled way too long. Just wanted to post my opinon.

We had the opportunity to spend yesterday with two of the three other adoptive families. My husband and I have still not received our copy of the letter however the other families did bring there copy for us to read. The other two families are very set in the fact that they will not consider a visit for their adopted child and I can respect that. We on the other hand have not decided either way. The one thing we know for sure is we will not move forward with out some type of proof she has terminal cancer. Based on what she sent we can not confirm much of anything. My dh also wants as much information as we can have due to breast cancer being hereditary. He had a brother die at a young age so he really takes this issue to heart. I do have a call into the therapist and am hoping to set up an appointment for my dh and myself to speak with her regarding the subject. I also wanted to address some of the questions others have asked. Our daughter knows she is adopted and has known as long as she could talk. She also knows her birth mother name and has pictures of her. The pictures are in an album that she can look at any time. Every once in a while she will pull it out and look at them. She also understands that the children we were with yesterday are her biological siblings. We dont make a big deal about adoption but we also do not hide it. It is just part of who we are as a family.

No real update. One of the lawyers involved in the case sent a letter requesting confirmation from bm and her Dr. The lawyer has not heard back and it has been over 4 weeks. I know it sounds bad but I do check the obits for the town she is in and the one her sibling/ family live and grew up. Nothing has been posterd.