post-visit psycosis

Are you doing visits because you want to or because you have to? That really has some bearing. If you are choosing to visit, you might choose to shorten the visits or even take a break for awhile to let your child settle in as YOUR child. And you definitely need to think about talking with grandma about what you, as mom, believe to be acceptable behavior from your child. That's going to be the hard part. It's hard when the grandma is your own mom or mother-in-law! Our son has the same reaction to his grandparents. He had absolutely no rules to follow and they just allowed him to do whatever and then gave in to his demands in order to keep him a little happy. So, visits looked like Bubba demanding chocolate milk, Dr. Pepper and ice cream and throwing himself on the floor if he didn't get it. And then he was wild and difficult for many days afterwards because he remembered the non-rules better than our real ones. And, you know, he doesn't even want to act like that. It's just his pattern. I'd bet your child is in the same boat. We don't have to have contact any more, and honestly, it's probably better for Bubba. We may open it up a little later. But when we do, we're going to have to have a serious conversation about what we expect OUR son to do, even when it's in direct opposition with what his grandparents will accept.

The visits are totally up to us, nothing ordered. Actually, the grandparents were fully aware that when they placed them for adoption they may not have any contact at all. We don't feel like that would be good for the kids. They need to see them, it's how often and under what circumstances that is in question. Grandma has a very strong personality and is very hard to communicate with. (There was actually another family interested in adopting these kids until they met grandma and backed out!) There ARE a lot of positives and they are very nice people who love their grandkids. I just really feel like the frequent contact is hindering us in building the kind of relationship WE want with our kids. I have decided to do the next visit in October (right between the kids bdays) and in Dec for christmas and their brothers bday. I think the kids will do okay with that but I KNOW grandma is going to be very upset! How do I deal with that? or do I just not worry about it?

I guess the short answer is "just don't worry about it". I'd let her know without a lot of detail that the visits are causing some difficulties for the kids, and that, while you still appreciate and value their contributions to the lives of the children, you need to cut back on the frequency of the visits, for now. Hopefully, her own knowledge that you COULD cut off contact altogether if you chose to, will keep her from trying to argue or guilt you into it! Always just keep coming back to it being "what the kids need right now."

I'm sure you know this from visits during transition and whatnot, but it is VERY normal for kids to act out after visits. All my fosters did. Very normal. It doesn't mean the visits are bad or harmful. It is a difficult thing for a young child to grasp... from your daughter's end, she's probably wondering on some level why she doesn't live with mawmaw now... feeling split between you and mawmaw, etc.I think cutting back frequency is okay, but I just wanted to mention that even with acting out, it just might be a really hard thing for her to process, kwim?

Thanks for the advice. The CW and CASA and therapist all told me that they also feel the relationship between grandma and the kids is odd and unhealthy. They have all tried to work with her and help her understand, but old habits die hard. She still refers to them as "the babies". I don't want to cut her off, I just want a little less contact. Another concern is that we invited them to come see a tball game and she came to every one of them! She had to drive 1 1/2 hrs each way EVERY sat for 9 weeks! Now I am worried that we are going to have to uninvite her to sports events because I don't want her at EVERY one of them. Sometimes we just want to be alone with our kids and have them run up to US after the game all excited. I'm just venting at this point cause I know what I have to do and I'm frustrated that I have to do it. Why can't people just be reasonable!:hissy:

If she was reasonable, she'd have the kids. There are issues. You just have to clearly define your boundaries. Like saying, "Our kids have ball games every Saturday. We would like you to be at one of them. Which one will you choose--a or b?" and then pin her down. You might even need to end a visit if she cannot follow your rules. That seems really mean, but it would be very clear. She get it. She knows she's overstepping. She's probably just counting on you being "nice" and not tough.

Do you have post adoption mediation available? It may help for you and Grandma to meet wtih a neutral third party and hash out a few ground rules before the next visit. Sounds like cutting back on visits and setting limits makes a lot of sense.

You hit the nail on the head. She knows I am passive, so she dominates. My husband only holds back because he knows I don't want to make any waves in front of the kids. I will definately take your advice about having them choose which game to come to. Why didn't I think of that?? I guess I'm too close to the situation to think clearly right now! Thanks for your help. Julie

The therapist has been acting as the mediator. No one from court because the visits are totally up to us. The therapist has been working with the family for almost 2 yrs and has tried to help the grandmother learn how to have a healthy relationship with her grandkids. She just really doesn't see what is wrong with her methods. She's in her late 60s so I don't see her making any major changes. We have to accept her as she is, but that may mean less contact. Sad for the kids. BUT, they will only see my parents 2 times a year and they are just as much their grandparents. Grandparents don't have to see the kids ALL the time in order to have a good realtionship.

Well, we gave in and did a visit Tuesday night. The kids have been asking non-stop and DD has been crying A LOT saying she misses her mawmaw. The visit did not go well! At this point I want to move back to IL to avoid all this craziness! Gma kept refering to us by our first names (even after DS said "you mean daddy? and You mean mama?") It is becoming obvious that she is having trouble letting go. DD would not talk to me or let me get her food (buffet) She clung to gma and sat in her lap the whole time. She completely ignored me. When the watermelon was gone off the buffet she asked her mawmaw if she could have the piece off her sister's plate and mawmaw said SURE! Thankfully gpa stepped in and said "um, I think the baby is eating it!" So, mawmaw still cut off a piece of the watermelon and said that the baby probably wouldn't eat that much anyway! So, DD got the impression that princess gets what princess wants, even if it means taking it from someone else!! Then, Gma asked to take both of the kids to get something from the quarter machine and was gone so long we went looking for them. We found them outside at her car. At that point we said we had to go. As soon as we got in the car, the kids started drilling us about when the next visit would be and why we couldn't see them next week and that October was too long to wait. They have NEVER done that before. So, I am thinking that gma put them up to it and that makes me furious! The main reason we are not calling off visits all together is that the kids have a 17 yr old brother who lives with the gparents. He played a BIG part in taking care of the kids when bmom was neglecting them and he is the one who finally called OCS to make the report of abuse. I feel like we owe it to him to continue visits. We have tried 5-6 times to schedule a visit with JUST the brother but gma will not let him come alone (various excuses). We tried inviting just the grandpa and brother to a "guys night" with DS and DH and gma showed up with them! I know that I would tell other people to stop visits or reduce them immediatly, but it is easier said than done! The kids do ask to see them and the brother and gpa are totally appropriate. I even have compassion for gma because I know it is hard for her to give them up and she tells us she knows they are happy with us. Do I just need to give her more time to adjust? If we decrease visits, how do I explain to my kids that we won't be seeing them till christmas? I am sooo mad that gma can't just knock it off!:hissy: Things could be really great if she would just stop being crazy! Just needed to vent! I am starting to resent my kids and I hate that. None of this is their fault and I don't want it to hurt our relationship.

myForeverkids3 - your kids need to know that your are willing to stand firm with your boundaries. Yes, they will try to wear you down if you tell them they will not see their grandparents for a while. In the bigger scheme of things, they will respect you more if you set limits and then follow through with them. Grandma needs the rules set down for her in writing, and then she needs to know the consequences for breaking those rules. Maybe make a bargain with her that she may have a short visit with the kids if the kids can have some time with their brother alone. Figure out something. And when they fight you, just let them know that you know they miss her and are hurting, but that Grandma needs to follow the rules. I had some training this weekend and the biggest message I took away was "Do NOT take the kids behaviors personally". Their behaviors are the only way they know how to express their grief, pain and confusion. When they hurt, they turn it outwards. It is so hard to see them clinging to someone else, when you want them to love and appreciate you the way you do them. But you have to be the stronger one. They DO love you and someday they will appreciate all you are doing for them.

Thank you. Sometimes I do let the kids push me into doing visits more often. I don't think they can understand our reasons for not wanting to see them all the time. They have no idea how unhealthy the realtionships are because it is all normal to them. So, we don't say anything about not wanting to visit, we just tell them when the next visit is scheduled. Today my DD ask if her mawmaw could come over to our house for her birthday. That makes me suspicious because her gma ask me the same question before our last visit and I said NO. That's why I can't let her be alone with the kids anymore. I really don't take her clingyness personally. I know she is doing that out of confusion and because she knows her maw maw will not tell her no to anything. It bothers me because I feel like her mawmaw should encourge her to have a relationship with me and should back off and let me parent her during the visit instead of taking over and refusing to even let me wipe her mouth or take her to the bathroom! It's more about gma not being supportive of me than me getting hurt by my DD's behavior. I KNOW that the relationship we are building is healthier and she is more secure child because of it. It is very helpful to have some support here. I often tell myself that I am just over reacting and creating drama, but deep down, I know what is right for my kids and that gma is harming our relationship. I need people to tell me I am doing the right thing because it is sooo hard to tell a 5 year old with tears in her eyes that she can't see her family for 2 months! Why is it always the kids that have to suffer?:hissy:

Sounds like you may need to excuse yourself... and the kids to the car next time and let dad "explain" things very clearly to the gparents. This situation sounds detrimental to the kids... not helpful in any way. I wouldn't let gma be alone with children at any point. The best piece of advice I can give you is to meet privately with the grandparents. You and dad set up a meeting that the kids are not aware of. Lay down the law... the new set of rules, and see what the gparents reaction is. Let them know that from this point forward, if you feel the visit is not helpful to the children or their is an atmosphere that is trying to put down your role as parent, you will terminate the visit immediately.