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7 years post adoption, 14-yr-old seems to be healing (moderate, anxious/aggressive RAD), also FASD and ADHD, but...
Took her off sleep med (was an anti-depressant, Mirtazapine) due to chronic constipation. She SAYS constipation is gone now (I haven't checked, but will given today's revelation). AND she's supposedly sleeping OK because she's been more active and I added "Scottish Oatmeal" which apparently has melatonin and tryptophan).
But I found empty food containers in fridge this morning (that weren't empty last night), so clearly she's raiding kitchen again during night. I'm resolved to just give up on the food thing--her early history has made her a nighttime wanderer and that will never change. The only thing I can do is lock up the meds and other dangerous things and just try to ignore it.
BUT...why tell me that she's sleeping through the night instead of the truth that she's waking and struggling to get back to sleep (which is when she gets up to wander, sometime between 11:30 pm and 6 am).
Ugh...her instinct is to lie at any question and so I've learned to phrase them correctly, "Did you go downstairs to the kitchen after you heard Dad get up for work, or was it before?" and I'm getting at the truth more often this way. But not always, and not this morning! :mad:
My point here is WILL THIS "CRAZY LYING" EVER STOP, or should I expect to be visiting my child in jail eventually?! Will she EVER be able to have a normal relationship based on trust with ANYONE (even a partner some day)???
She hasn't been in attachment therapy for 2 years because her therapist thought she was healing just fine and we could continue our therapeutic parenting that we're "so good at" (ha! I wish!) even though therapist knew at that time that she was still lying, stealing from classmates, and wandering during night!
I KNOW she needs AT, but there's nobody else near us. :hissy: I'm just at a loss. I cannot bond to this child as I can never trust anything that comes out of her mouth, and every time I think I see progress, it turns out it was all just a fantasy and I still have a child who cannot tell the truth and doesn't give a flip what her parents think about it. :confused:
P.S. And to add another wrinkle, much of her "lying" is simply misunderstanding or not getting the whole story before repeating it as "truth" to everyone. For example, we saw an announcement for a theatre performance for the 2012-2013 season (so it won't start til Fall) and she said "It's July 31st!" I assured her that can't be because it's at a college and won't be until at least Fall. She stuck to her story, so I waited for the electronic sign to come back and sure enough, the EARLY BIRD TICKETS are on sale UNTIL July 31st. It didn't even give the date of the performance.
So see how I have to take everything she says with a grain of salt? This wasn't intentional--she didn't read the entire thing. But she does this all day long with everything! For school she read about polar bears and insisted they cover their black noses to sneak up on prey. This is now FACT to her, so I reviewed the story and pointed out that it is a MYTH that many believe, but that it was disproven by a team of researchers. (And she has repeated this myth to other kids and adults many times, and each time I remind her that it's a "myth" that researchers studied and disproved. "Oh, yeah" she'll say, with a dejected look and face fallen, so I always follow with "But that would be really cool if they did that, wouldn't it?" and she's cheery again.)
My guess is that it just the cognitive delays, but I how can my child ever LEARN if she doesn't read and understand the entire thing? Or maybe she reads it and just ignores it because she likes her version better?!
:eek: All day long...with everything. I just cannot trust that her words are accurate (cognitive-based) or truthful (morality-based). And I just don't know if I can or should try to do anything to help her.
14-yr-old just came to me to apologize (Dad sent her) about the mess of this morning (the lying, accusing sibs of eating ALL of the food in the empty container). But apparently he calmly got her to admit that she had just been hungry and/or didn't want anybody else to eat it yesterday AFTER supper, not during night.
So again, is this true, or is she just telling us what she thinks we want to hear--an admission (with her maintaining some control by specifying the false WHEN? Cuz they watched a movie after supper with a guest over, so somebody would have seen her get up and go to kitchen to empty about 10 nobake cookies out of the fridge! Fridge is in full view of movie room!)
Who knows. I hugged her and again emphasized honesty in relationships and that I love her and want to be able to trust her...
And yet I don't. These are just words. :(
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Have you read this article? It was very helpful for me:
[url=http://www.deborahhage.com/articles/lying.html]Lying and Teaching the Truth - Deborah Hage, MSW[/url]
with the food thing, just try not to shame them... i was neglected as a young child, and it caused me to have a twisted relationship with food, which is still shameful and hard to talk about! it can be a way of self soothing, and i used to do it without thinking... are there any possibilities that they are getting up in the night, but arent aware because of the meds? The lying must be aggravating, but they are most liikely trying to "make you not mad at them"... if that makes sense... hope I helped!
When I was a child, I used to eat in my sleep...and not remember anything about it in the morning. Evidently my mother found me on multiple occasions standing in front of the refrigerator in the middle of the night, eating whatever leftovers from dinner were in the fridge. I guess it could be some type of sleepwalking or something. I also talked up a storm while I was sleeping, something I still do to this day. Some nights I still go to the refrigerator...but I'm always conscious of it now. It's hard to explain...but it's like I HAVE to eat some cheese in the middle of the night. It's really weird to the point that I actually asked my primary care physician once if there was a reason for it..
The funny thing is I think it was passed down to me by my mom -- I caught *her* standing in front of the fridge all the time late at night. Her eyes were always kind of glazed as she stood there making herself a sandwich....
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No, It's not sleepwalking because I've caught her before and she has that look of "uh oh, busted!" Rather than a glazed or surprised look. I've also had a camera record the hallway when we were first trying to figure out which child was getting up. She would slowly/quietly open her door, step out into hall and look toward our room (to see if door was open. I'll leave it open if she's been wandering, buto normally it's closed due to Dad's loud alarm at 5 am!). Then she'll tiptoe down the hall and down the stairs. That's not sleepwalking.
But we recently found a solution: we take her glasses at night! She has a strong (nearsighted) Rx. She can still get to bathroom, but doesn't go downstairs to rifle through cupboards anymore! (Another time she went into the laundry room to get a camping flashlight to help with her food/stuff search and dropped it--the handle broke off. Eventually she admitted to that.)...
I really think it's a can't sleep issue because it wasn't always food. I'd find papr/crayons, hair brushes with doll hair stuck in them, etc hidden in her room.
When she's going for the food, I think she's keeping up on survival skills (and because it's usually sweets which we rarely have in house). When it's other stuff, I think she's just awake and can't get herself back to sleep. :(
VertKat, I meant to ask: are/were your food issues about sweets? Mine doesn't get up to eat bread or cheese, meat, crackers, juice, etc. It's only when we have cookies or leftover pie/cake/Halloween candy, etc that she gets up and eats it. (And only enough that we may not notice right away.)
I know that this sweet craving is attachment-related. Just curious if that ever goes away when our kids become securely attached?
I totally get the half lies and sometimes blatant lying.
My STBAD who is 8 does the same thing. She does alot of back-pedalling when caught in one. "I didnt mean that, I meant this", " I didnt say that", " Oh that part was a story"...all day every day. Its exhausting!
I cant even begin to imagine this for another 7 plus years!
We have once weekly therapy where shes doing well. We start intensive in-home therapy today, four days a week, three hours a day. I pray that it helps.
The kids have been with us for six months now, and Im still not bonded. I get what your saying about bonding with your daughter. Its very difficult to bond with someone that your constantly correcting, disciplining and catching lying. Im in the same boat :(
PM me if you ever need to talk!
Tam
Tam,
While it does sound intimidating, the good news is that she has improved ALOT with 'fessing up....eventually. :happydance: And she is beginning to attach...ever so anxiously. But for whatever reason (survival skill?), the first response from this kid is always a fabrication.
Except that just last week when asked by a psychologist to rate how often she lies (daily, weekly, monthly, rarely, or never), she said "daily" and the interviewer laughed! (I don't think she believed her.) :arrow:
But here's some unsolicited advice for dealing with your kiddo:
1. Try not do ask "Did you...?" or "Why did you...?" to anything. Instead, phrase it like "Did you do X before or after Y?" or "Where you scared that I would be upset, so you did X?" (Try to be the logic of your daughter's brain. Sometimes they really don't know why they lie. Of course other times they lie to get out of trouble, to control us, etc.)
2. Pick your battles. 7 years has taught me that mine ALWAYS lies, so besides phrasing questions in these "safer" ways (where she doesn't feel vulnerable), I now just don't ask as much. So I either consequence as if (because she likely did it) or I just ignore the lies...they're like wind blowing through my hair--sometimes they "mess it up some" but other times they can be entertaining/(pleasant--hardy har har). ("Oh really?! You finished your homework in 47 seconds?! Dang, kid, I'm calling the Guinness Book of World Records right now! Clearly you need to be in it! Hurry! Go pick out an outfit for the picture!")
P.S. Good for you for finding services for her so quickly. (Hopefully it's attachment therapy.) It took us nearly 2 years to get ours into AT!
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