Probably an unpopular question...

OH! Ok...I didn't realize that is how it sounded...when I said I knew we could do something later, I only meant that if we got down the road and it was the nightmare I am anticipating, then we could ask the courts to modify it for our safety and the best interest of our son. I agree...I would not have them file it and then immediately recant! NO way...what I would like to do is just not file it. We can't be the first people to have experienced this... However, I did email the atty...and he said I was asking VERY good questions and he will call tomorrow so we can talk about it in detail. I am pretty sure we will withdraw it and not have it filed(if that is still an option)...what I do not know is what that does to everything else. They say one is not attached to the other..but...we all know how that goes. IF we cannot withdraw it at this point...then we will do our very best to swallow our anxiety and fulfill our agreement. And, only ask for modification if it truly becomes apparent that this will NOT work out for the best interest of our son. Even then, all we can do is go to court and ask for it to be modified...the court will make the final decision.

I read the OP as wanting to modify, not cancel the agreement. I read it as if the OP was concerned that bdad would be told about the visits ahead of time and would be somewhere in the vicinity. My advice would still be the same, talk with the attorney asap and see if the agreement can be changed. The attorney may be able to get it changed to read something like mine does "if the adoptive parent(s) feels that the visit will not be in the best interest of the child, or that there is evidence of the bioparent(s) being under the influence of any substance, be it legal or illegal the adoptive parent has the sole discretion of terminating the visit." You may be able to have visits in a public place and make sure that the bios leave at least 1/2 hour before you do. If you do this, I would recommend not going straight home, rather go an alternate route that takes you by a police station, keeping to very busy roads. My agreement also states that it is the bios responsibility to contact me to arrange visits. If they do not contact me, there is no visit. If they do not have all the allotted visits during the calendar year, there will be no make-up visits allowed during the subsequent year. I have a cell phone that is used strictly for bio family contact. They don't know my home, regular cell phone or address info. Good luck.

I never signed ours . . . I realized it months late and questioned my attorney about the validity, she said it was filed and the Parent had signed it, it was valid. I wasn't looking to change anything really, I just wanted a clear picture of where I stood legally.

I am a little lost . . . why are you questioning the OA? Because BD is a bad man and Mom might be with him? Your son's future . . . what are you envisioning that you don't like? The one thing I can say is that our Agreement wasn 't a carbon copy of a standard agreement, we were able to modify it with some qualifications. Such as 2 missed visits made the agreement void. I put such and such jail time voids the agreement. I wanted to put in writing that if my son wishes to discontinue visits at the age of 10 that visits became his choice. My attorney wouldn't go along with that wording(she said children's wishes are not taken into consideration in court until a much older age , blech) What we have says my son's wishes after age ten will be given considerable weight. That works both ways, we have seen his BD about 6 times a year since the Adoption, the OA was for 2 visits. I have also allowed unsupervised visits. Although highly unusual, BD and I have always had an amicalble relationship and it was his youth and lack of (suitable and otherwise) family supportn that led to him not being able to take his son home. He has made great strides, I question my decision of extended contact constantly but try to go with what feels right for my son.

I *do* want to modify it before we file anything...I don't want the current agreement filed...but, I have no idea if that is even possible at this point. I am sorry it was confusing. I am worried about several things...one...we live in a tiny, tiny town...when I ran into her at the store, I had reason to believe that friends of hers were watching me leave...thank God we, literally, bought a new vehicle that weekend...and I took a very, very long way home to make sure I was not being followed. Given their gang affiliations, I am more than a little nervous...the caseworker told me early on that their gang is responsible for burning a house down with children in it in a neighboring town(not kidding)..they actually have lived in a few different towns around here. In the OA, dad and mom are not together...he gets two letters a year. Period. Mom pushed for more...they really wanted her to sign...they pushed us...we caved and went with *two* visits per year and *three* letters/pics... instead of the agreement that DSHS spent a year telling me was "all the state is willing to offer to parents" of two letters and photos per year. I have no reason to trust her...heck, they kept her away from doctors appointments and would have kept her from hospital stays if we had to take him in(there was a scare at one point) because of the concerns over us having contact...and her constantly telling everyone who will listen that she wants to marry dad is unsettling as well...makes my head spin. If that were not enough, she has pushed and pushed already...I can see that we will have to fight to keep things within the boundaries of the agreement no matter what we do. And then...on top of all of that...I have been worried about how our son will feel about it in the future...there is no provision for it stopping if he wants after a certain time, or for us to stop it if we feel it is no longer in his best interest. What we wanted was the open line of communication...letters...a PO box...no visits. The entire thing was so rushed(as far as what we knew about it, and the time frame that we were given to make a final decision...two hours) I would definitely have asked for other parameters...especially the parameter that Withay mentioned about it being at the Adoptive parents sole discretion if they hit a point where it was no longer in the best interest of the child. *Two* visits a year is way too much...I know it might not sound like much...but, it sure feels like it to me...there was no one in that room(for the settlement hearing) who was thinking about the next 17 years of my sons life...they wanted to avoid an appeal, they even said so...and honestly, afterwards, the AAG made a point of saying "You don't need to rush down to sign it now...that can be done much much later"...man, I wish he had just come out and said "wait til you are ready to finalize, then decide"...IF there is something that can be done to throw out the original agreement and scale it back to 2 letters and photos...or at least add these parameters...I will breathe easier. It does say that we get to decide where and when...and she has to request it 30 days in advance...it also says that the location is at our discretion so that if we move, they come to us, not the other way around. But, where it says that if she appears to be under the influence we can leave...and then she has to go get a drug text immediately(at her own expense) to prove she was not under the influence...if she can prove that a "make up visit" will be scheduled...but, it does NOT say that the agreement becomes null and void under those circumstances, which I would have preferred...it just leaves it open...I don't know...maybe it is implied...if the drug test is positive, we don't schedule another visit. @ Withay...thank you...my husband and I have already been discussing the location and taking the long way home. I just cannot seem to shake the constant wondering if they are watching...I mean, the other night at the store...she wanted to talk to me...she wanted to give me her number, etc...try to get my sympathy so I would start visits now. If she had not, she could have stood back and just watched...watched me get in my car, you name it. When I say we live in a small town...I am talking 3 miles long from one end to the other. That is it! Very small. I just don't trust them at all...and I am already tired of being afraid. When I saw her the other night, she had friends with her...one of whom I am pretty sure had been following me around the store before I ran into her. (I was aware of it...and then, he was hanging out in the toy aisle and I just remember that feeling when someone is in your space...watching your face too closely, listening to you talk on the phone with your spouse...then, later, I saw him again near her friends...and I ran into her in the same area of the store) I am pretty sure no one followed me home...but, I would like to limit the opportunities for folks to be watching, you know? Ugh...after the whole thing we had with the car sitting outside our house right before she relinquished...I am just really jumpy!

Oh I am so sorry to hear all that is happening with the OA. We also have the same adoption date as you. We do not have an OA or a goodbye visit they did not request one. But someone did mess up a few months ago and gave the parents our home number. We were sick over it and yes they called here and I am sure know our address. We almost moved fc to another home. We just could not do it to fc. We met them a few weeks after the phone call at court and we were ok about them. They never called again and I have not seen them or they have not come by house. Let me say also they never showed up to any visit since we have had FC and no one in the family that is here asked to see FC. Now we are a few weeks away from adoption. Grandma called the worker she was denied a home study for FC. She can not get an approved home study for adoption everyone is telling me and what was disclosed to me for the adoption paper work I would believe that to be true. I think she is calling now and saying that to see if we as foster parents are adopting FC in a round about way. I am not freaked out about it and I would not be surprised if they showed up at my home or call in the next few months or find out FC is adopted. But if they do show up I will get court order to keep them away. So I had all these things going in my head what could happen a few months ago. Do we move (can not sell our house) note if they look up for property tax they could find you anyway it is public. Attorney said I am giving them to much credit. I would have to get a land trust. Now changing my number I just do not answer the phone if I do not know who is calling and they will have to leave a message. Even if we spent all the time to change our number you could still look up an old phone book and find our address. We do not have a common name and very few here where we live. FC family are not in a gang but overall they use drugs/jail and you never know what they could be going on in their heads. Funny but not funny DCF filed a paperwork showing where FC has lived since in care. Also I was put in as other if I showed up in court so they could have gotten my name that way. That was given to parents attorney, did the parents ask to see it or did the attorney tell them. Who knows. Yes it is our address. I do not know if it is zillow or google earth my address it show my car in the driveway. So bottom line talk with your attorney and see what can be done with the OA and keeping them away if you feel they are not safe.So this is what we are doing. We put our house on hold for any new placements to see what happens.(this could happen again with a new placement) We are fully prepared to get court order for anyone that comes to our home. I believe that is all we can do. We are open to pics and visits they just never asked for them. We are going to file on adoption reg. and wait to see if they contact us that way. FC family just can not figure out what to do and go about it all the wrong way. That is what I am thinking. I could be very wrong I really do not know them. I hope you can work it out and not be so stressed out. Good luck

Based on what you said above: If they signed relinquishment papers based on the pre-determined guarantee of openness then you might have a problem... If the relinquishment is void because what you want now isn't what was part of the deal - and they have to TPR in court and then an appeal period... Kind regards,Dickons

In our state, it is illegal for bps to sign any conditional surrenders (such as signing over rights due to a guaranteed level of contact w/ child). Check into that-- whoever arranged that could be in serious trouble if it's also illegal in your state (bps would not be in trouble, but the worker/lawyer/etc who arranged the conditional surrender).

In our state, OA agreements are not binding after the adoption, they are more of a "good faith" contract that the new parents have the right to reneg on.

In all honesty, I believe they just knew she would never relinquish unless she thought she would have an OA...I know the Adoption Worker told me they are not supposed to be related documents...that this is not "Let's make a deal" but, he is sad to say that many times that is the impression that prospective Adoptive parents are given regardless. I do know that I saw documentation stating that she understood her relinquishment of rights was not related to the OA, or WHO adopted her child(as we did not even have an approved home study at the time), and that she was giving up all rights to further notices of proceedings with regard to adoption and any right to contest the adoption of the child. Also, I know the OA itself it states that failure to meet the terms of the agreement is not cause to set aside an adoption OR THE CONSENT TO ADOPT once it has been approved by court. (which the consent has already been approved, I have copies of all of that in the files we were given at full disclosure) They accepted her relinquishment and consent to adopt back in July...these documents were not filed yet. I guess we will see...I am waiting to hear back from my attorney...I guess we will just see what he advises.

From what I see in the surrender...AND the OA...it would be illegal here, too...and it is made very clear that one is not related to the other...Our Adoption worker said that they cannot guarantee anything, especially, when in a case like ours, we did not even have an approved home study yet, when it was signed! What if our home study had NOT been approved and someone else adopted the child? I am waiting to hear what the attorney has to say...

Update: We are just going to leave it alone. I have not gotten a straight answer as to whether it is even possible to change anything at this point...but, I don't want anything to interfere with the adoption on the 17th. And, it sounds to me like any option is going to postpone that. I just told our attorney that if we got to a point where we truly felt our safety was a concern...or it was interfering with our sons best interest...we would go back to court at that point and seek help amending it! Otherwise, I think I may just write her a letter(to include with the first update) that clarifies our stand on the agreement and the parameters...and that we expect her to follow the agreement. Period. We have no intention of going outside the agreement. Ever. We will see...gotta pray on that one.

I think especially in your situation you did the right thing. If your town is really that small then you WILL likely run into her frequently. There is also a very good chance she already knows where you live and that means her friends and the birth dad would as well. In choosing to adopt this little one you will always have to be be on your gaurd, but having set boundaries and a positive start to a relationship with her can go along way. I would be very firm with boundaries and keep things as positive and friendly as possible. Hopefully, you will be pleasantly suprised but if not you can always get a restraining order and go back to court to change things. I would also invest in a good home security system mainly for your peace of mind.

I have been thinking about this...especially since my hubby is out of town most weeks...it can get creepy at night alone...just me and babies(remember, my older boys are all out of the house now!) I would probably breathe easier just knowing I had it. I am sure they won't actually ever do anything...but, it is still pretty unsettling...

I purchased an ADT system due to the safety concerns my SW's expressed regarding bio family! It was not that expensive and really makes me feel more comfortable as it is just me and the LO. The initial installation was about $600 (Included 3 entrance doors, and 8 windows). Now I pay $85 every 3 months for monitoring! It also comes with a key chain that I can make go on instant alarm if someone ever approached me in the yard! I highly recommend it!!!!!