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millie58
Southernmomma: do you know who Bianca Jones, Chelsea Ramsey-Jones or Jocelyn Hagan are? If not, that's white privilege.
So I have white privileges just because I don't know of someone when there are approximately millions of millions of people on Earth...right.
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EdyDedd
One thing to keep in mind when parenting trans-racially is that people will know a big part of your child's story just by taking one look at your family. It doesn't bother me, I love talking about my family and about adoption. But I know it affects my son's boundaries. Strangers should not be privy to anyone's personal history, but by looking at us, they are. (Foster children often have issues with over-sharing anyway, which is a separate issue.) People will make assumptions about how you saved your child from his impoverished, druggie natural parents. I do get told pretty regularly that I'm "a saint", and I wonder if this would be as frequent if my child was CC. I'm sure I wouldn't be told that if I adopted a CC baby. Most people don't say this to my son, but I do know that he is told often how lucky he is.
I would say that having same-gender/same-race role models is very important. There aren't enough positive role models for AA men in the media (don't flame, I know there are many, just not enough IMO). Having real life AA male role models who interact with your child is important. A mentoring program is a good place if you don't have someone close to you that will step up and take an active role.
(Hopefully this goes without saying, but I want to make it clear that I'm NOT advising you not to adoption trans-racially! Given the same chance, I'd do it again a hundred times.)
Also, I wanted to address southernmomma's post.
White Privilege is the term for the unspoken advantages that CC people have the privilege of being able to take for granted. Just because there are millions of successful people of all race does not mean that it isn't a very real thing. This is a pretty good paper explaining it: [url=http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html]White Privilege[/url].
From the white person's perspective, the privilege is the norm, so it goes unnoticed. If I'm in a store with my hands in my pockets, I don't notice that no one is watching me suspiciously. However if I'm with my teenage AA son, I certainly notice if someone is keeping a close eye on him, and yes...I instruct him to keep his hands out of his pockets.
Some good examples from the article are:
2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.
5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. <Edy adds: AND POSITIVELY represented>
12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge" I will be facing a person of my race.
19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
And my own additions:
- I can watch a comedy show/movie with positive reflections of your race. That is to say, the representative of your race is not the butt of racial jokes.
- If I become wealthy, people will not automatically assume that I'm an athlete or a rapper.
I think we will have to agree to disagree. I like how you provided the article as I find it interesting. However, the book I am reading right now is about George Washington Carver and I see him as having to overcome many horrible obstacles. I see him as a strong man that people of any race can look up to. So no, when I see that there are scholarships that exclude my husband because they are for black people only....that is discrimination. When universities don't take white people because they want a certain number of black people, even though their test scores are lower....that's not white privilege. I was looked at the other day in the dollar store by the black cashier because I left empty handed. (Btw I look like I'm spanish because I have dark skin, dark hair) I did not take it as being racist. I took it as she wanted to make sure I wasn't stealing.
Im not saying racism is completely dead because there are ignorant morons that judge people because of their skin pigmentation. However it is nothing compared to what it was like in the 1800's, etc. There are so many opportunities, there is no segregation. There are many favorable men and women that act, sing, preach, write, etc that are black. My great great grandfather was forced to walk on the trail of tears from Georgia to Oklahoma but Im not going to have the attitude of those "poor indians". No, everyone has an equal opportunity you just have to bust your butt to make something out of yourself. I think it's sad to think that people think there is a white privilege, like white people aren't discriminated against? Ignorant people discriminate against everyone, it's not just black people...hence the term "white trash", "gringo", "chinks", "indian giver" etc. All I'm saying is discrimination is equal among all races.
You're right that it's not the same as it was in the 1800s. Things have changed significantly even in the last 10 years, and they're constantly evolving. Families, neighborhoods, workplaces, politics, and media are a lot more diverse than when I was a kid (not too long ago). But that doesn't mean that there aren't still implicit advantages to being white in America. I understand what you're saying, but I also know that I can walk to the store for some skittles and an iced tea while wearing a hoodie, and feel secure that no one will misinterpret my intentions.
Visit a school in your area that is considered undesirable, and look at the racial composition of the school. The children who attend these schools simply don't have the same opportunities a children who attend better funded schools. Visit a prison and look at the racial composition. The ACLU says that even though CC People engage in drug offenses at a higher rate, African-Americans are incarcerated 10x as often. [url=http://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/drug-sentencing-and-penalties]Drug Sentencing and Penalties | American Civil Liberties Union[/url]
Sorry to derail the conversation here...that's the last I'll post on the topic I swear!
They're missing black children who haven't made the news. Google missing black children; not one has made the news. That's white privilege.
Southernmomma
So I have white privileges just because I don't know of someone when there are approximately millions of millions of people on Earth...right.
The other thing that some pre-adoptive parents don't often realize is that your child may go through a very uncomfortable phase of NOT wanting to be the "visible minority" in your family.
Southernmamma -- I so strongly disagree with your opinion, I really can't even word it eloquently -- but have you ever taken the time to sincerely and genuinely ask a minority what their day to day experience is? Do you have any true, deep and real friends of color (of any color other than white) and they would trust you enough to be honest with you about what it is like?
I live in the one of the LEAST racist areas of the world and my minority kids still face issues almost daily. Issues that i have never, ever faced as a white middle class woman, and issues my white middle class husband didn't even know existed until our friends, family and now our CHILDREN shared with us their experiences. The comments, the looks, the disregard that many are treated with just because of their color.
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My response to Jillianh was about white privilege, not affirmative action-two different things-so I'm not really sure how my comment got linked to college scholarships. If others want to have that debate on another post, go for it. But I stand by my original statement that I wish I had known more about white privilege and how it doesn't extend to my son. I would've still adopted transracially, but I would've read more, talked more, gotten more perspectives.
I agree that it is asinine that people are fearful/intimidated just because of race, but it happens. and it happens today...not just hundreds of years ago. If I'm going to be a good parent to my son (and a good wife to my DH) I HAVE to know that...I cannot bury my head in the sand and pretend like it doesn't exist, or I won't be prepared to support him if he has such an experience. Do I hope and pray that things will get better before he gets older so that this is a moot point? Absolutely! However the fact that I had to unfriend several folks (double digits, people) during the last election because people couldn't stick to the issues but had to instead post racially inappropriate cartoons and comments and the fact that in the LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS YouTube had to disable comments about a cereal commercial (one that stars a family that looks very much like mine) lead me to believe that we still have a long way to go.
millie58
They're missing black children who haven't made the news. Google missing black children; not one has made the news. That's white privilege.
I don't have cable but from my search I found this
[url=http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=usMapSearch&missState=IL]National Center for Missing & Exploited Children[/url]
And...
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/missing-persons]Missing Persons: Pictures, Videos, Breaking News[/url]
Many of them are under 18 and black
Jensboys
The other thing that some pre-adoptive parents don't often realize is that your child may go through a very uncomfortable phase of NOT wanting to be the "visible minority" in your family.
Southernmamma -- I so strongly disagree with your opinion, I really can't even word it eloquently -- but have you ever taken the time to sincerely and genuinely ask a minority what their day to day experience is? Do you have any true, deep and real friends of color (of any color other than white) and they would trust you enough to be honest with you about what it is like?
I live in the one of the LEAST racist areas of the world and my minority kids still face issues almost daily. Issues that i have never, ever faced as a white middle class woman, and issues my white middle class husband didn't even know existed until our friends, family and now our CHILDREN shared with us their experiences. The comments, the looks, the disregard that many are treated with just because of their color.
I don't understand how just because we have different opinions automatically means I was never exposed to someone of a different race. My best friend since I was ten years old was black (I posted about this the other day and her story of growing up) and I worked on a farm with black and spanish people growing up. I am Cherokee Indian and I do not look white. I AM a minority. However, if you continue to just focus on one's skin color, don't you think that gives them a disadvantage? Coddling someone because of their skin color does just as much damage because it can breed hate towards other races and possibly give them an out that makes them feel like they're unworthy so "why try" attitude. I have never seen a black person get turned away at a movie theater, refused food at a restaurant, etc. I have noticed smaller things such as Disney never had a black princess until recently or cartoon character such as Doc McStuffins.
EdyDedd
You're right that it's not the same as it was in the 1800s. Things have changed significantly even in the last 10 years, and they're constantly evolving. Families, neighborhoods, workplaces, politics, and media are a lot more diverse than when I was a kid (not too long ago). But that doesn't mean that there aren't still implicit advantages to being white in America. I understand what you're saying, but I also know that I can walk to the store for some skittles and an iced tea while wearing a hoodie, and feel secure that no one will misinterpret my intentions.
Visit a school in your area that is considered undesirable, and look at the racial composition of the school. The children who attend these schools simply don't have the same opportunities a children who attend better funded schools. Visit a prison and look at the racial composition. The ACLU says that even though CC People engage in drug offenses at a higher rate, African-Americans are incarcerated 10x as often. [url=http://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/drug-sentencing-and-penalties]Drug Sentencing and Penalties | American Civil Liberties Union[/url]
Sorry to derail the conversation here...that's the last I'll post on the topic I swear!
I agree with you on the schooling as it portrays this in Waiting for Superman (school lottery,etc.) So in your opinion, even though there are many black politicians, judges, police officers, etc white people are still holding black people down? I guess I am just trying to figure out exactly what you are saying. Why do white people supposedly have such an advantage when there are so many black people out there in these positions?
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Southernmomma
So in your opinion, even though there are many black politicians, judges, police officers, etc white people are still holding black people down?
I don't really know how to explain it other than that it's a matter of privilege. Even though there are many black people in positions of power doesn't mean there isn't a societal advantage related to the color of your skin. This does not mean all white people or all minorities (not just AA)...e.g. a minority in an affluent area may have more opportunities than a non-minority in an economically depressed area. But as a societal norm, it exists.
Think about the initial reaction to the Boston bombings. Who were the suspects? Among other dark skinned individuals, a 17-yo track enthusiast found his own picture making its rounds, when his only offense was being suspiciously brown. His life was placed in danger for no reason other than his ethnicity.
Do you believe that male privilege exists? Or heterosexual privilege? Or do you think that every person in this country has the same day to day experience and opportunities that they would have if they were a different skin color, gender, sexual orientation, etc.?
I hope my tone doesn't come across as combative, because that's not my intention.
Oh no, I think this is a great conversation to be had and that needs to take place. The degree I am working on right now is in psychology and I simply want to know why other people feel the way they do. I don't take it the wrong way and I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. I think everyone has disadvantages that they need to overcome in life and that is simply what I mean that just because someone is white doesn't mean they don't get treated differently at times either.
I think that men have had an advantage for a long time in the workplace but I feel like it's my job to work hard and prove people otherwise. Poor people of every ethniticy are looked down upon. My family raised money to build a school in Uganda and when I think of how bad they have it over there, problems over here in the US seem trivial. People of every race here get to wake up to medical treatment even without insurance, we have programs such as WIC, etc.
I'm reading Inside Transracial Adoption, by Steinberg and Hall. Slowly reading through it. I'm an MFT grad student (graduate in August woohoo).
I'm just going to jump in here. When we started looking at the possibility of transracial adoption (we didn't continue down that road for many reasons), I started reading a blog - mybrownbaby.com. In regularly reading that blog I see how many things that I as a white woman take for granted. It's not that I'm unaware of injustices or that I don't treat everyone equally. It's not an attempt to define others by their race. It's merely that by exposing myself to more views I've realized the things I don't even realize others have to think about.
Have you heard of Trayvon Martin? Why was he suspicious? Because he was a black teenager walking after dark in a hoody. That's all that was used to profile him. That's what every momma of a brown child has to be prepared for.
How many times when I'm shopping do I get followed because someone judges me by the color of my skin and decides I'm a risk to shoplift? Never, but ask my friends of color. They've had it happen.
Do you know why employers can't use arrest records in hiring decisions? It's because they're prejudicial. More AA people are arrested when they aren't guilty. And they get targeted (profiled) frequently by law enforcement. I don't worry when I'm walking down a street that someone is going to think I'm suspicious looking. I don't worry that the police will think I committed a crime when I didn't. I feel confident that if I said "the person who did this went that way" they would believe me. As much as you may not want to admit it, that's not the experience of many people of color. There's a reason they don't trust the police.
If you're not in Atlanta, you probably didn't hear about Kathrine Johnson. She was an elderly black woman who lived in a poor neighborhood. The APD was looking to pad their arrests. They used an informant who provided false information that they knew was false to obtain a no-knock warrant. When they entered her house, this poor lady thought burglars were coming in and she fired at them (they didn't announce themselves). She was killed in a barrage of police gunfire. Several officers went to jail over this one. But the point is, that they wouldn't do this in an upscale predominately white neighborhood.
The reason it's hard to define and recognize privilege at times is that it's the subtle, subconcious biases that people use to make judgements without even thinking or realizing that they're judging based on race.
To me it's more than just white privilege. It's also socioeconomic privilege. It's the power that comes with not being stuck in poverty. Let's face it, if you can afford to adopt in this country, you may not be rich, but you aren't living in poverty and you have a different experience than those who do. A lot of what we think of as "white" privilige is sometimes just as related to economic privilege.
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Comments heard at the recent HS graduation, made by old white guys:
"I'll bet she is the first in her family to graduate high school" (sorry dude, his grandpa graduated from VCU, so did both of his parents, and they are all still married, and working, and make more money than you do...)
"I'll bet he got a free ride to one of the historically black colleges" (sorry dude, parents are footing the bill - VA Tech - here we come!!)
There were more of the same, I'll spare you the sickness.
My youngest child just graduated from high school. My other two black kids are 24 and 19. The black population where we live is extremely small. We have had to make opportunities for our kids to have black friends, when they were small. As they have gotten older, they have naturally tended toward the other black kids at school, most of whom are also adopted children. They all know each other, but most of their best friends are white or Hispanic because they base their relationships on personality rather than anything to do with race.
I made sure that they grew up seeing black people represented in our home, in art, magazines, Christmas decorations, etc.. I made a point of studying AA history in quite a bit of depth, when we became a multiracial family, 24 years ago, and I have taught all my kids (I also adopted three white ones) about it, when teaching moments have come up. My kids are proud of who they are. As far as anyone being intimidated by them, my 24 had quite a bit of trouble, in school, with a vice-principal and some cops here targeting him. I expected worse with his younger brother, who is much darker, but he seems to just get along great with everyone. It is a difference in personality.
I think the fact that our area does not have a history of racial discrimination toward blacks is a plus, in some ways. It hasn't been that long since Jim Crow and the horrors of the 50s and 60s civil rights movement. There are still many of the white racists from that who are alive and even more people who have been raised by them. Some of the children of racists rise above that, but others don't.
I think culture is important, too, but I think history is absolutely essential, in order to understand what the African American population has been through. Not just focusing on how they have been victimized, but how they have survived and risen above so much. Don't make any mistake in thinking that discrimination and racial hatred is a thing of the past, though. Yes, things are much, much better, overall, but if you don't think there are still racists in this country, look at what has happened with the Trayvon Martin case. That boy was walking along with iced tea and Skittles and an idiot with a gun killed him, and now there are people blaming that on the dead boy and doing everything they can to villify him. If the same man had killed a white boy, it would be a totally different story.
I don't know if anything I've said is helpful or not. I'll just reiterate that I think the very first thing anyone thinking of adopting transracially should do is start studying history, then culture, etc.. Also, try to find others in your area who have done it. You can be a big support to each other.