Does this sound like depression?

I don't know your daughters history ...but I think I would be feeling pretty darn mad at the world if I had lived any foster child's life... Have you ever tried to sit down and think about how you would have reacted if you had walked in your daughters shoes? Really tried where you go away from your comfort zone and get uncomfortable, scared, hopeless, angry, afraid while understanding each cognitive level at the time it all was happening... Perhaps she needs a different therapist or the therapist needs to try something else. Kind regards,Dickons

Dickons, your's was a great answer! I don't know of much that I could add to it. Except that, maybe the parent could benefit from counseling, too, specific to how to cope with and build a relationship with that child. Because it sounds like that little girl desperately needs a solid rock to hold on to, even if she doesn't know that, so possibly acts out in anger to keep her safe distance from affection???? Social butterfly with a guarded heart - no one ever gets close enough to inflict emotional hurt again???? Just a couple of passing thoughts, but one would really have to get to know her, and her past.

Madeofstars: How long has she been with you? How many previous placements has she had? I have 4: the youngest has been with me 6 years and he's just feeling safe and isn't angry all the time. He's on meds and is now in trauma therapy.

Dickens and MBethT, I do see her reactions as normal for her experiences and I know that change takes time, I just wanted to see if this anger is just another type of depression. Her in-home counselor seems like a waste of time. This girl is avoidant and the in-home counselor lets her lead and set the pace, so it does not seem like anything is getting done. The attachment therapist is more helpful and includes us as parents, sometimes sees us separately too. I think that is helpful. The questions remains though if antidepressants could help her. Millie58, She was in the system for about 3 years and we are parents number 10 and 11. I am imspired that your child benefitted from antidepressants and therapy, but 4 years is such a long time... I just get worn down by her persistant crabiness and how she takes it out on us, even if I understand the reason. Thanks for the responses from everyone.

MadeOfStars, I surely feel for you. You've got a tough case with that little one. Poor little thing, 11 parents in 3 years? Wow! I can only imagine how frightened and unwanted she must have felt being bounced around like that. No wonder she's acting out. I don't know that your supporters here would be the ones to ask about antidepressants, though. I sure would ask her doctor if they might help. Or, could needing to take medication possibly add to any feelings that something is WRONG with her???- Just a thought. Sounds like she needs to somehow come to believe that you really ARE going to be there for her forever. My heart breaks for both of you, sincerely. It almost seems like she might be testing you to see if you will be there unconditionally, while at the same time she is harboring secret fears or doubts about whether you truly will be (the attitudes she gives off). I might keep finding ways to assure her that adopted parents are forever, unlike foster parents, although you're probably already doing that. I'd bet there is some depression, though probably hurt and fear and anger more so. You're probably paying the price for the birth parent's failures, as I've read from a number of former foster children who reported feeling unloved, unwanted, and flat-out abandoned by their birth parents. Just consider that, even if it does take four more years to bring her around, there should be gradual improvements during the course of it. And your day of pay-off for all of your dedication will come, and it will be priceless once that bond clicks in place.

Thing about my 14-yr-old (home now for 8+ years). She's the middle of 3 sibs, went into foster care (due to neglect, likely fasd) at age 4, we adopted her at age 6. So been with us 8 years. And despite years of attachment therapy, bringing her home to homeschool and lessen the anxiety and help her attach, she's still such an angry, contradictory child. Even her bio sibs are tired of it. And when confronted about her constant sour attitude (she can't keep friends because of it), she claims she understands HOW she's pushing everyone away ("cuz I'm mean to everyone") and at times will cry and tell us she doesn't know WHY she behaves this way and seems remorseful (but moments later will roll her eyes when I gently suggest some kinder ways to handle whatever set her off earlier). It's as if all of her self-loathing has turned outward and she attacks others, seeing herself as the victim. (And yes, I get that she WAS the victim of circumstance. I'm talking more specifically now.) For example, she was admonished tonight for complaining about sharing a (hotel) bed with her sister since sis "has cooties, and I don't want her getting her nasty cooties on me...she's gross"...etc., etc. Instead of, "my poor sis has warts on her toe" (securely bandaged so as not to infect 14-yr-old) "and I feel bad for her. That must really stink." Nope, cuz it's all about her. She has absolutely no empathy. I believe this is attachment-related, showing her lack of development of a conscious. She's still in the "I want, so I'll take if Mom and Dad aren't looking" phase, and not yet in the "I want it, but I know it's wrong to steal and I'd feel bad" stage. (Most kids are there by 11 or 12 and she's already 14.) Mine is also avoidant in attachment therapy. She folds her arms and glares at the therapist. We tried EMDR, but with no luck because my kiddo didn't WANT to do it. (Said it's "for babies.") We did mom-daughter journaling, suggested by therapist since she was refusing to talk in therapy. But I have to talk for her ("maybe you were feeling X when this happened so you did Y. Could that be it?") Her responses are always "I don't know" followed by "Will you buy me...?" Mine has no identity of her own--she's a follower. (Her younger sib is a leader, and older is now both leader/follower. Younger is securely attached, older is getting there.) my middle is the contrarian...when everyone is cold, she insists the car windows be rolled down. When we're hot, she wants the heat on. We go to a pizza place, she pouts and makes everyone miserable because she wanted fried chicken. We make chicken at home, she rolls her eyes and complains that we never take her out for pizza. Ugh....It's absolutely exhausting!!! The only time this child EVER laughs or smiles is when someone is either getting hurt or embarrassed! :( I know I NEED to pull her in close and do the necessary attachment work, but after 8 years of this I'm so frustrated and angry with her! What could possibly make a kid so angry and spiteful that she could live this way, day in and day out, for 8 years?! I get that neglect and foster care can really damage kids. I get that. And we had all 3 in attachment therapy from the get-go. But our youngest attached fairly quickly, and our oldest started to when we got the fasd diagnosis and started changing our expectations of her and helping her to process things. But this one refuses to participate in attachment therapy (ANY kind of therapy), yet when we talk with her when she's calm, she admits that behaving this way and pushing everyone away truly isn't any fun, that she doesn't know WHY she does it, and that she would much rather be happier. So does this sound like depression? Or is it simply due to lack of attachment? I'm wondering if an anti-depressant could help relax her enough so that she could begin to do the attachment work without that fear/anger response throwing up the walls??? Yes, I can ask her pediatrician (who knows nothing about attachment disorder) or her AT (who can't prescribe meds), or her older sis' former psychiatrist (who RXed the Concerta for ADHD that older sis likely didn't need anyway since she's no longer on it. She just needed a different teaching style.) Just wanted to 2nd MadeofStars' concern and question since ours sound similar.

Thing about my 14-yr-old (home now for 8+ years). She's the middle of 3 sibs, went into foster care (due to neglect, likely fasd) at age 4, we adopted her at age 6. So been with us 8 years. And despite years of attachment therapy, bringing her home to homeschool and lessen the anxiety and help her attach, she's still such an angry, contradictory child. Even her bio sibs are tired of it. And when confronted about her constant sour attitude (she can't keep friends because of it), she claims she understands HOW she's pushing everyone away ("cuz I'm mean to everyone") and at times will cry and tell us she doesn't know WHY she behaves this way and seems remorseful (but moments later will roll her eyes when I gently suggest some kinder ways to handle whatever set her off earlier). It's as if all of her self-loathing has turned outward and she attacks others, seeing herself as the victim. (And yes, I get that she WAS the victim of circumstance. I'm talking more specifically now.) For example, she was admonished tonight for complaining about sharing a (hotel) bed with her sister since sis "has cooties, and I don't want her getting her nasty cooties on me...she's gross"...etc., etc. Instead of, "my poor sis has warts on her toe" (securely bandaged so as not to infect 14-yr-old) "and I feel bad for her. That must really stink." Nope, cuz it's all about her. She has absolutely no empathy. I believe this is attachment-related, showing her lack of development of a conscious. She's still in the "I want, so I'll take if Mom and Dad aren't looking" phase, and not yet in the "I want it, but I know it's wrong to steal and I'd feel bad" stage. (Most kids are there by 11 or 12 and she's already 14.) Mine is also avoidant in attachment therapy. She folds her arms and glares at the therapist. We tried EMDR, but with no luck because my kiddo didn't WANT to do it. (Said it's "for babies.") We did mom-daughter journaling, suggested by therapist since she was refusing to talk in therapy. But I have to talk for her ("maybe you were feeling X when this happened so you did Y. Could that be it?") Her responses are always "I don't know" followed by "Will you buy me...?" Mine has no identity of her own--she's a follower. (Her younger sib is a leader, and older is now both leader/follower. Younger is securely attached, older is getting there.) my middle is the contrarian...when everyone is cold, she insists the car windows be rolled down. When we're hot, she wants the heat on. We go to a pizza place, she pouts and makes everyone miserable because she wanted fried chicken. We make chicken at home, she rolls her eyes and complains that we never take her out for pizza. Ugh....It's absolutely exhausting!!! The only time this child EVER laughs or smiles is when someone is either getting hurt or embarrassed! :( I know I NEED to pull her in close and do the necessary attachment work, but after 8 years of this I'm so frustrated and angry with her! What could possibly make a kid so angry and spiteful that she could live this way, day in and day out, for 8 years?! I get that neglect and foster care can really damage kids. I get that. And we had all 3 in attachment therapy from the get-go. But our youngest attached fairly quickly, and our oldest started to when we got the fasd diagnosis and started changing our expectations of her and helping her to process things. But this one refuses to participate in attachment therapy (ANY kind of therapy), yet when we talk with her when she's calm, she admits that behaving this way and pushing everyone away truly isn't any fun, that she doesn't know WHY she does it, and that she would much rather be happier. So does this sound like depression? Or is it simply due to lack of attachment? I'm wondering if an anti-depressant could help relax her enough so that she could begin to do the attachment work without that fear/anger response throwing up the walls??? Yes, I can ask her pediatrician (who knows nothing about attachment disorder) or her AT (who can't prescribe meds), or her older sis' former psychiatrist (who RXed the Concerta for ADHD that older sis likely didn't need anyway since she's no longer on it. She just needed a different teaching style.) Just wanted to 2nd MadeofStars' concern and question since ours sound similar.