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I'm sorry in advance if this is the wrong forum to post this in. I searched for a specific sub-forum for relaying information about scammers but couldn't find one and I thought this the best place to put this information for others to find it later.
So my wife and I were just emotionally taken by a scammer. This was a drawn-out process over a 26 day period that culminated in some fantastical stories from the scammer.
I’m writing this post for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it’s cathartic; we need an outlet for our emotions and don't want to grant the perpetrator the satisfaction of an outburst of retaliatory text-messages or the satisfaction of letter him/her know how much they got to us. Secondly, we're hoping that by sharing our story it mentally prepares some other adoptive families for what they may encounter as well as a reference for anyone searching for these names or similar stories should this person try the scam again with someone else.
I've gone into great detail below with copy and paste transcripts from our conversations in hopes that those phrases or names show up in a text search some other hopeful family might find. Also, I've written this in markdown and copying and pasting into an online editor like this one: will make reading this document much easier. I also have this document in pdf format but this forum doesn't let me upload anything over .5mb (the pdf is 3mb).
### "Expectant Mother" aka the scammer's facts/profile
- Scammer's Name/Alias: Katlynn (but also went by Kat & Katie). No last name was given.
- Age: 21
- Father of the baby: Fiance, a 22-year-old named Liam
- Living situation: Lives with parents and 5 younger siblings in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Seattle. Mother is a doctor, Father is an attorney. Claimed to live in the "Madison Park area"
- Work: She works as a receptionist at a hair salon, he's a "chef" at a local restaurant.
- Reason for adoption plan: Decided that the baby would be much better off with a family that could financially provide for the child. Also, they are in college and want to finish school and build a life for themselves and careers. Parents encouraged the adoption.
- Other associated account: Instagram user "queenofsass20"
## Structure
I've structured the post as follows:
- The facts we were given by this expectant mom as context for the story that follows and as a TL/DR in case you are reading this to compare to a potential scammer you are dealing with.
- Day by day accounting of our interactions
- Highlights of things that seemed off to us / red flags
- Reflection on the emotions we've gone through and how we are feeling right now.
## Day by Day Accounting
#### Day 1: Friday, November 17th
queenofsass20 [2:51 am] : Arizona Time: "My sister found your profile on adoption.com but was unable to reach out on the website. She is 21 weeks along with a little girl she would love to be in contact with You"
So that's how the whole thing started with a user on Instagram named queenofsass20 direct messaging us. I remember blowing it off in mind as I've had more than a few crazy proposals/scammers from another country come through Instagram. I told Leann that I didn't think it was much of a lead since it came in at almost 3 am. Still, the next morning at 7:00 AM we responded with our phone number stating that we would love to speak with her. We gave her the same phone number that is posted front and center on our adoption.com page (which isn't our real number.... we use an app called burner and pay monthly for a disposable phone number).
We didn't get a response until after we were in bed that night. At 11:35 pm the following message came in.
"Hi my name is Katelynn and my sister contacted you via Instagram I'd love to chat and find out more about you"
We didn't see the message until the next morning early.
#### Day 2: Saturday, November 18th
[I should note that this isn't our first rodeo... and we've been through a few emotional scammers already]
The first thing we did after writing a quick reply was to do a lookup on the area code. Sadly it was from Canada, which was our first red flag.... because it would be much harder to adopt a baby from Canada than it would from the states.
Still, we responded and immediately asked where she was from. She let us know that she was from Seattle which didn't add up and was another red flag. What followed on and off until almost 1 am that night was a fantastic conversation with lots of great questions and sharing back and forth with this expect mother. In fact, as I'm reading back through our conversation with her again right now I'm emotional about just how genuine and real this conversation was. I find myself longing for this to all have been one big misunderstanding and for things to work out. *WHICH IS CRAZY because of all the highlights above.*
She shared in depth and well thought out details about her situation and family.
She described being in a family of 6 with her being the oldest and 5 younger siblings running around the house. Quotes from that conversation:
- Alexis ( the one who reached out to you) she's 17
- Layla is 15
- Hendrix is 13
- Twins Mya & Kamryn 8
I should note also that the flow of the conversation, the level of detail provided, and the grammatical flow and structure of her responses had us convinced this was a real person and a genuine situation. We found ourselves praying and hoping that she would pick us as the family to adopt with. Here's some of the other detail she provided to give you a sampling of the conversation that first day:
On why they are looking at an adoption plan:
Yes, we are still together & happily engaged however having a child right now just isn't in the plan for us as we both have 2 years left of university and believe there is a family out there who can provide for her much more than we can. I don't mind texting at all, it is very loud in my house I still live at home & have 5 little siblings running around.
*[this detail came in amongst other conversation a few hours later but I've added it here for clarity]*
Being surrounded by my family has really made the process a lot easier as when we first found out all we wanted to do was keep her, but the more we thought about it the more we discussed it the more we knew she deserves parents who can financially support her. And I work as a receptionist at a local hair salon & Liam is a chef at a local restaurant.
On support from the family/parents *[texts from various points in the conversation combined here for grouping purposes]*:
My parents are very supportive! My dad is a lawyer & my mom is a doctor so they have both been a HUGE part of this process and making sure this pregnancy goes as smooth as can be. Liam's parents, on the other hand, are not in the picture. We love the outdoors & spending time with family and we travel as much as we possibly can. We met in summer of 2013 when I was traveling with a group of my girlfriends through California, you could say it was love at first site we dated long distance we would take turns traveling back and forth every 3 months until Summer 2015 when he decided to make the move to Seattle. He lives with us here at my parent's house.
They both 100% agree that adoption is the best thing for our little girl, I should also mention that we are only interested in doing an open adoption.
Liam comes from a really bad family situation, he grew up in foster homes, thankful he's been able to keep his feet on the ground & stay strong and be successful.
He's really come a long way since he arrived in Seattle my dad got him a well paying job the first summer he was he and he was able to save enough money to get into University
She also asked some great questions that night:
What religion would she follow if any?
Do you celebrate holidays?
How important would her education be?
How young will she be before you let her know she is adopted?
The conversation moved along well. We were honest in how we answered her questions and were excited as to how she reacted to our answers. Eventually, she asked if we would like to see an ultrasound picture from her last appointment:
Everything about you two so perfect, I love how involved you are with you boys & that's all I could ever wish for with this sweet little bean growing inside of me. I do have a some ultrasound photos from when my last appointment that I'd be happy to share if it would interest you in seeing?
My partner requested I blur out my last name & clinic it was taken at incase you were wondering why it is blurred in some areas.To give you an idea of what made us feel like this was so genuine here's the transcription of what followed seeing that picture:
[11:52]
Outbound message: That's understandable and probably a smart thing to do, thank you for sharing with us! How exciting!
[11:52]
Outbound message: When was this from?
[11:55]
Inbound message: This was at my 19 week ultrasound :slightly_smiling_face:
[11:56]
Outbound message: Very cool!
[11:58]
Outbound message: Are we keeping you up with our texting? Oh ... Actually it's an hour earlier there now I think right?
[11:58]
Outbound message:It's almost midnight here in AZ.
----- Sunday, November 19th -----
[12:04 AM]
Inbound message: No not at all! It's 11:00pm here and all my siblings are still running about it was my little sisters 8th birthday today
[12:12 AM]
Outbound message: Oh, nice! Well, ... I know we keep saying this, we are really excited to be talking to you. Alas, it's after midnight and the boys will be up in 6 or 7 hours. Wondering if you had any more questions for us tonight? Also, would you want to see a quick cute video clip our boys recorded tonight... It's a "blooper real" from a thank you video they recorded
[12:25 AM]
Inbound message: Not off the top of my head no, however I'd love to see it but sometimes my video messages isn't the greatest darn android however I am with my sister right now so if you could send it via instagram that would be fantastic
The conversation went on after that with her sending a gender reveal photo that she and Liam had taken by a friend. She went on to talk about how much they wanted the adoptive family to be involved and be able to tell the baby one day the story about how much her birth parents cared for her. She described her and Liam really embracing the pregnancy and trying to capture all the moments so they would remember this special by trying time in their lives.Leann and I both took a one-day seminar talking about adoption and it was mentioned in that seminar that we should offer to talk to the expectant mom's parents as they likely have more of a friend relationship with their parents and look to them as trusted advisors. She said that she would like that and had been thinking about asking us.
At this point our main concern was them getting too attached and maybe changing their minds at the last minute. Leann and I went to bed that night excitedly talking about how we have found our match! Whew. This was all just Day 1!
#### Day 3 (Sunday 11/19)
Day two was more small talk and good questions from this supposed expectant mother:
- Something I forgot to ask what are you most looking forward to with adoption?
- What does the typical weekend look like for your family
- Are your family and friends know your wanting to adopt?
We asked some questions too, to which they had great responses that sounded very genuine, well written, and grammatically correct for the most part:
I would say my personality is very bold, I am always straight to the point, but I also extremely outgoing and always the one to make the room laugh. Liam he is more laid back and quite he likes to observe everything going on. We bring out the best in each other that's for sure our personalities mix so well together.
My ideal situation would obviously be to have you attended a few ultrasounds if that was possible just so you can experience the growth of your future daughter. Liam & I would absolutely love for the adoptive parents to be present at the time of birth as we think that it is extremely important for you to bond with her as soon as she is born ex skin to skin in a private room just have that private time with her. I would also like to see her once or twice a year if that is something both parties would agree on however I MUST get letters,photos and updates on her every few months as I do not want to be left wondering about her
I would have no issues paying for travel to see her my parents have already promised Liam and I flights to whatever city the adoptive family is in.
We are very active if it's going to the gym or hiking we are always doing something to keep active Liam & I go to the gym daily and will continue though out our pregnancy
We ended our conversations that day asking for next steps and suggesting a phone call or skype call.
Their response:
Absolutely! I will talk it over with Liam and we will let you know what we think in the morning.
#### Day 3: Monday, November 20th
At 10:17 am we got a response
Good morning, so Liam & I would like to arrange to have a phone call next week as we are both extremely busy this week. Does a day next week work for you? We are both free on Thursday
This was the week of Thanksgiving and we had a lot going on as well so that sounded logical to us and we agreed to do a phone call with them a week after Thanksgiving.
All was quiet the rest of the day with them until about 9 pm when she texted asking if it would be okay if her mom (whom she said was named Carmen) asked us a few questions. She said she was handing the phone over to her mom and we proceeded to talk with her for about an hour over text.
Hello there, I'm Kat's mom. Hope you are both doing well! Kat has said some lovely things about the 2 of you.
I just have a few questions as she's said that she believes your the family she would like to match with. Being the protective mom I am I just want to help her with her decision like she has asked me to do.
Will you show and teach your new daughter daughter about her roots that come from our family?
I would also like to know if you will document the things Kat says to show her how much Liam & her truly do love her?
Now I'm not sure if you and Kat have spoke of this but visits? What are your opinions on that? I know she wants a family who will allow her to see her, so her father and I have offered flights for both her and Liam anytime.
I know Kat would absolutely love for the adoptive parents to be present at the birth is that something you would want as well?
She has also mentioned to me how she would like to meet with you in person before the due date is that also something you would be okay with?
We were excited about all of this and went through the questions one by one. We even sent her photos of the baby books we have for each of our boys describing how much fun we have documented their lives through photos and we put a first-year photo book together for each of them after they turned one. :(
Some of the responses she sent had us especially excited:
I'm glad to hear! She's been very un easy until she found you to and now she said her & Liam are 100% sure adoption is what they want
Oh my that is the sweetest thing! What handsome boys you have!!
That would be amazing! I know when Kat first told me she was considering adopt the first thing was I want the adoptive mom to be able to experience as much as she can with me so she feels like she was able to be there through it all. Kat had mentioned wanting To send a video of the baby kicking but was to nervous to ask so she wanted me ask if that would something you want to see
After almost 3 hours of talking with her and her mom, we wrapped up for the night. She did send a video fo the baby kicking and another video of a heart rate monitor so we could hear the baby's heart beating. All of this was overwhelmingly exciting for us and we went to bed that night on cloud nine thinking about having finally made a match and being able to add a baby girl to the family.
#### Day 4: Wednesday, November 22nd
At 11 am we received a photo of she and Liam. It looked like a photo from a pregnancy photo shoot. Again the attachment thing was scaring us but they had sounded so well put together and mature in their decision making up to this point that we chalked it up as exactly what they described. Taking photos to both have for the baby after the adoption and as something for them to remember this time in their lives. Here's the transcript of the message and the photo:
We had a family friend take a few photos for us to remember this time just thought I'd share my favourite one with you.
Happy Thanksgiving Eve
Kat, Liam & baby ??We were super excited to hear from them again so soon and to see new pictures. At this point we were really curious as to what they looked like and more about them. After looking back at the message a few hours later though I became suspicious. If you look at the note you'll notice the spelling of the word "favorite" as "favourite" like they spell it in Canada and England. This had me worried. I was angry in fact. At this point I thought for sure it was a scammer. I started texting with them again over dinner as Leann was making rolls for Thanksgiving. Everything about that interaction though seemed just as genuine as the rest had.
Text as much as you please! I love chatting with you both :heart:
We will be heading to my grandparents this evening for our big cousin sleep over well all my aunts and uncles head to my parents then we will all be at
My grandparents for dinner and games tomorrow
They live about 15 minutes from us! And there will be 16 of us and yes Liam sure does, my grandparents adore him.
I only have 5 cousins that are my age the rest are younger but yes they know and are very supportive and we are EXTREMELY close and we live in the Madison Park area
It really is a great time! We are so blessed with such an amazing family. I love thanksgiving and being pregnant with all these cravings I CAN NOT wait for the feast tomorrow :joy::joy: Liam is usually reading with me or will read them before we head to bed.
Omg yes! That's the EXACT ice cream I crave :open_mouth: soooo tasty! I work as a receptionist in a local hair salon and Liam is a chef. I haven't had any weird cravings yet, when my mom was pregnant with my twin sisters she craved pickles with cheese wiz and hot sauce :joy: do you guys have plans to do any Black Friday shopping?
I hope to get the majority of my Christmas shopping done, usually pretty crazy so I may just wait for cyber monday. What are on the boys wish list this year?
My little brother loves lego has sooooo much, more than he knows what to do with. I bought that exact one for my brother for Christmas this year. That's crazy super impressive I find lego sets confusing especially the big ones but my brother can do it with his eyes closed haha boys
Everyone keeps asking what I want and all I kept saying was a loving family for my baby, I'm a feel like I've found one and it makes my heart so happy :heart:
Not to sound crazy or anything but when would you think would be a good time to meet in person? And would you like to come here or us come to AZ
Especially after those last two messages, we did a complete 180... Still though at this point we wanted her to meet our attorney in Seattle and be formally vetted. So we used this as an opportunity to post that question as to when she could meet with her.
Our response to her: That's not crazy at all! Funny you should ask.... we asked our Attorney this exact question. Her answer was that we should try to talk to you guys on the phone and then have you meet with an adoption attorney who can help you formalize your adoption plan. Once that happens she said we should try to meet with you as soon as possible. She even gave us the names of two attorneys in Seattle that she absolutely trusts.
Her response back: I'd love their info! Absolutely! I'll let you know in a few days :slightly_smiling_face:
We were so happy we were hugging and telling family at this point. Everything seemed so real and we were so excited. Sadly though, this is where things started to go downhill and get strange.
#### Day 5: Thursday, November 23rd
We sent a note to them first thing in the morning telling them just how thankful we were for them. They responded with a note and a photo:
Awh :heart::heart: we are so thankful to have met you as well!That seemed like kind of a weird photo to send ... but maybe not. We weren't sure. We replied at 10:30 am:
You guys are so cute! Enjoy your :turkey: day, watch out for that Rocky Road Ice Cream.... it’ll getcha!
No more communication back from them the rest of the day. We didn't think too much of it because it was Thanksgiving.
#### Day 6: Friday, November 24th
We waited until almost 1 pm and then sent a note saying that we hoped that they had a great Thanksgiving with some details of how we spent the day. We heard nothing back.
#### Day 7: Saturday, November 25th
A quick note from them at 10 pm (36 hours since we last heard from them... so we were relieved by their note).
Sorry for the late reply just been enjoying time with family I don't see often. Hope you had an amazing thanksgiving!
We responded that we totally understood and knew what it was like being really busy.
Nothing more from them that night.
#### Day 8: Sunday, November 26th
At 6 pm Sunday night, we sent them another note asking if they had a busy week ahead and letting them know how much we were excited about our phone call in 4 days. No response.
#### Day 9: Monday, November 27th
Nothing. No messages exchanged by either party.
#### Day 10: Tuesday, November 28th
11:37 pm (we were alreday in bed asleep)
Hi sorry for such a late reply things have been hectic over here, Liam & I had a little scare with baby. But things are all good and back to normal! Hope all is well with you.
#### Day 11: Wednesday, November 29th
Whoa. Well, that explains the lack of communication we thought. We also thought this added credit to the fact that they were real because, we assumed, if they were an emotional scammer that they would be looking for attention at this event and trying to talk to us much more, not much less.
We replied that we were sorry and glad that everything was okay. She described the incident as follows:
She's an extremely active baby and her movements dropped to very small movements so I was worried something was wrong. But everything is perfectly fine and we are both healthy they just wanted to monitor us for a few days to make sure everything was ok
This was good to hear that everything was okay and that it could easily be chalked up to first-time pregnancy and getting overly nervous. We also applauded her attitude of better safe than sorry.
At lunchtime we received a note from another expectant mom in Tucson looking to chat with us. We told her that we were happy she reached out but that we were already working with another expectant mom. We were still waiting for her to meet with our attorney and nothing was final yet. Once we told her that she stopped communicating with us.
At almost 2 pm I sent one last note to Katie and Liam:
Hey, is this a good number to call you at for our phone call tomorrow night? Also, we just remembered that you are off from our time by and hour... so our plan was to call you at 9pm AZ time which, I believe, is 8pm your time. Wanted to make sure we didn't surprise you an hour early. :)
No reply.
#### Day 12: Thursday, November 30th
No response the entire day from Katie directly.
This was the night of our scheduled phone call. The night we were so excited about.
We received a message from her sister on Instagram at about 7 pm... 2 hours before our scheduled call letting us know that Kat had crashed her phone and that she was trying hard to get a new phone so she could get on the call with us tonight. She said Kat wanted to make sure that we knew that she wasn't blowing us off.
She would relay messages to us as we stayed up later and later that night past our scheduled time hoping to get a call.
She said that Liam had to work late.
Kat was going to pick him up.
Kat just picked him up
... and then nothing. No call, no further response from the sister. Ugh. We felt terrible with a bad feeling in the pit of our stomach.
#### Day 13: Friday, December 1st
At almost 8 pm we finally heard back.
Hey I'm not sure if you've been getting my
Texts or not I got home late last night
She described our texts as coming through very delayed. We started to worry that there was something wrong with the burner app we were using and the phone number we had set up.
Nothing of substance from her that night.
#### Day 14: Saturday, December 2nd
10:49 pm we get another message
Hi I'm just wondering if you are getting my texts
Followed by
I have been having issues with my cell it's about time for a new one still
At this point, we gave them my Google voice number and our email address so that they couldn't use the phone number as an excuse for not being able to get ahold of us. We set up another call for Wednesday night are very specific about the time zone and time of the call (she originally asked for Tuesday but Leann had plans that day). We also ask about which attorney they chose. Her response was the fist time things seemed off grammatically and like it was out of context a bit... or maybe just slightly off.
We are torn, liam and I both agree to choose who you think would work best your your attorney. And Wednesday is free for us as well
We pick an attorney for her and she lets me know that the phone number she has been using is the best one to have our attorney, Janna, there in Seattle call her on.
#### Day 15: Sunday, December 3rd
No communication
#### Day 16: Monday, December 4th
No communication from Kat
On my way home I talk with the attorney in Seattle at length about our experience up until now. I describe all our hesitancies based on Canadian phrases and phone number. The oddness of the missed phone call. All in all though based on these genuine interactions Janna thinks it is very unlikely that it's a scammer. She calls and texts Katie as soon as we get off the phone.
#### Day 17: Tuesday, December 5th
At almost 9 pm we here back from Katie for the first time in about 2.5 days.
Hey just wanted to let you know I tried to reach out to Jana as she gave me a call but I was at work I will try contact her again tomorrow to make plans to meet this week with her to get the ball rollong
We replied quickly but didn't hear back until after we were in bed.
#### Day 18: Wednesday, December 6th
This is the night of our second scheduled phone call.
Nothing from Katie all day. At 9:30 pm, the time of our schedule call, we call her. The phone rings and rings and rings. Nothing. After about 12 rings there is just a beep. No greeting just a long beep ... presumably over to voicemail?
Hi Katlynn, we just tried to give you a call but it just rang and rang. Can you give us a call instead?
I sent an email to the attorney asking if she was able to get in touch with Katlynn and described our second missed call. After that we tried to sleep... that sick feeling in our stomach getting worse.
At 1 am we got our response:
I thought we had planned our call for Thursday as Leann was out this evening until 9:30pm so Liam & I went out for a date.
#### Day 19: Thursday, December 7th
We didn't respond the next morning... in truth we were both very busy, I had a consultant in at work that I was supposed to be shadowing and Leann had several PTSO events. We were also pissed and at this point had pretty much assumed that she wasn't who she said she was.
At about noon we got another note from her... one that, once again, caused us to pause and do almost a complete 180:
Katlynn: Just wanted to let you know that Liam and I will be in Phoenix visiting my grandparents from December 15th to 23rd if you are interested we could meet in person.
Hi Katlynn, sorry we haven't gotten back to you. I've been fighting fires all morning at work and Leann has been in PTSO meetings.
No worries completely understand :slightly_smiling_face: stay safe!
Meeting in person would be fantastic! Ha! They aren't physical fires. :grinning:. Since you were planning to talk on the phone tonight anyways can we find a time tonight where you could call us and we could chat. Nothing major... Just hearing your voice and speaking with you guys would be super helpful.
There was no response to that request until 7 pm that night when Liam let us know that Katlynn wouldn't be able to make a phone call but that he could talk to us if we like. We asked them to pick a time that worked for both of them rather than trying to just talk to him. No additional message that night.
#### Days 20 & 21
No responses
#### Day 22: Sunday, December 10th - Stuff starts to get real weird.
So after not hearing from them again for another couple of days we get this doosy of a note:
Hi Liam here nustnwanted to send an update Kat is back in the hospital as baby has once again become less active then usual
If things don't go back to normal in the next few day they will be doing a c section but the is worst case as she is only 25 weeks along
We tried to console him some and let them know that we were praying for them and that if it helped them we were available to talk with.
He fired back a response:
Kat is a mess. She's worried no one will want our baby if she's premature. So she's all sorts of emotional, she keeps saying how she wanted to complete you guys family but now she's scared she won't be able to
At this point, Leann and I started doing research ...
- how could we comfort them?
- Would we be able to support a baby born that premature?
- What are the implications of a baby born that premature?
etc...
I'm not sure how great our response was but we were pretty shocked:
I think that's a natural reaction and totally understandable. That being said, stressing about it probably won't help things and the best thing to do would be to take it one day at a time.
We've been hoping you would pick us as the adoptive family but didn't want to push you guys into that decision. I would't count us out as the family if the baby was born premature and you decided you still wanted to move forward with the adoption. Obviously, the specifics of the situation would dictate our response ... we haven't gotten to talk to you on the phone, or meet you in person, or have Janna help you finalize an adoption plan but we've been hopeful about you guys since we started talking and we feel like everything happens for a reason.
Hey Liam, also if you think it will help her be less stressed she can feel free to call us and we can just talk about whatever.
No further messages were received that night. I reached out to Janna via email informing her of the situation.
#### Day 23: Monday, December 11th
*As a side note, I woke up at 6 am from a bizarre dream about meeting the Kat and Liam in Arizona realizing that they didn't look like they did in the photos and that she wasn't pregnant. I also realized in the dream that she didn't have anything meaningful to say to us. It was a really vivid dream at the time and I saw her very clearly in the dream... crazy as it sounds consider this foreshadowing of things to come.*
At 10 am while sitting at work (right before one of the managers stopped by to talk of course) I receive the following note and pictures: Doctors say she will need help breathing for a few days but over all the see no signs of any issues and is will be able to survive. Kat is recovering in a lot of pain. Just wanted to let you know she was born last night at 2:12 am via c section she was 4lbs 3oz 22 inches long
Sorry not 22inches she was 16inches
At this point, I start calling bullshit. The photos don't look like a super preme baby. Also, a baby born at 25 weeks should be about 1.5lbs, not 4.3. I put in a call to Janna and explained the situation. She agrees but asks me to play along for a bit with my primary job getting one of them to get in touch with her ASAP. Also, I should try to find out the hospital at which they are at.
The dialog that followed:
Josh [10:32 AM] : Oh my gosh Liam! This is unexpected for sure! We're so glad everyone is okay! Obviously this accelerates the legal side of things. Can you call Janna the attorney as soon as possible on her direct number (we gave her a heads up and she is expecting your call): 206.812.7458 - Also, which hospital in Seattle are you at?
Liam [10:35 AM] : Things are hectic here right now but later today I will give her a call and get everything figured out with her
Josh [10:36] : Okay great. Please keep us posted, and hang in there! Also, what hospital are you guys at? We want to send flowers.
Katie [4:40 PM] : Hey guys sorry for the late reply I've been out of it all day, I called Janna and left a message as well as texted her. Liam had to head to work this after noon so I've been here with baby & my mom
Josh [4:43] : No big deal.... you've had a lot on your plate! How are you? Also, which hospital are you at as we have flowers in a cart and ready to send!
At about 7pm that night I started receiving messages from the 'sister' on Instagram with more baby photos and a video of the baby sneezing. Unfortunately, while much more believable as a super-preme, these photos were a different baby than the first.
She also claimed that Kat was sleeping and that she had just left her at the hospital. I asked again (for maybe the 4th or 5th time now) which hospital she was at because we 'wanted to send flowers' but she outright delined the request. Stating that she wasn't sure if Kat wanted to share that information yet but that she would check with her. We were pretty fed up at this point and started asking for some other photos of her with Kat or her whole family together. She finished saying that she would dig up some photos and send. That was the last communication before we blocked all accounts from this ordeal the next night.Unfortunately by blocking her account I no longer have the transcripts of her communication to share directly here for forum searches to pick up.
#### Day 24: Tuesday, December 12th
Nothing at all from Kat until about 2 pm when we have another documented fallacy. I had been in contact with Janna the attorney the entire time. She even gave Kat her cell phone number to text and call whenever she needed.
[2:15] I'm having the worst time with catching Janna or her getting me so I will be reaching out to a different lawyer to get this ball rolling
At this point I just wanted to call her bluff and see what she would say:
Josh [2:17] : Hey, I just spoke with Janna and she said that she will come down to the hospital and meet with you. Can you let me know which hospital you are at?
At this point I sent Janna note because I didn't want to overstep my bounds with her offering her to head down to the hospital and at the risk of the small possibility of the scammer reaching out to Janna and asking when she would be there and Janna not know what she was talking about I sent her an email and let her know what had transpired. Janna had an excellent response... though disheartening in the big scheme of things because it was at this point a professional was agreeing with us that we should probably just walk away:
Janna [2:55 PM]
No problem. Obviously she is not aware that we are communicating, because she definitely has not called or texted me today.
Unfortunately, I think it might be time to stop pouring emotional energy into this. We now have multiple documented falsehoods, so it's hard for me to picture any explanation that could salvage the situation.
How would you like me to proceed?
I am so very sorry it turned out this way.
Sent from my iPhone
We let Janna know that we were sorry she got roped into the situation and that we would handle it from here. I wanted to consult with our local attorney to see what was prudent.
In all honesty, I wanted to blast his person... to tell them that we knew ... that we knew weeks ago but were hopeful. That they broke our hearts a little bit... I was angry and I wanted to let them know that.
We decided to wait. Our local attorney was taking a vacation day and I thought it would be good to reflect and calm down a bit. I also didn't want to give this scammer the satisfaction of an outburst which maybe the peak of what they are looking for in this situation.
Still, the scammer continued to message us, and I was a little curious about how big of a hole they would dig and how they would attempt to get out of that hole and salvage this scam?
Kat [3:40 PM] : We have a lawyer coming down here at 3:30 to chat with us. She will call as soon as she returns to her office after our chat
Josh [3:44] : Okay cool. What is her name and info as we'll have to have our attorney here in Arizona coordinate with her.
Kat [10:41 PM] : Hey so sorry for the late reply been a hectic day! Things with the lawyer went great, she'll be back tomorrow to write up our adoption plan and then she will present it to your lawyer and if all is well and you happy and we are happy she said it can be finalized by Friday :slightly_smiling_face:
Josh [10:44] : Okay, keep us posted. Let me know when you need our attorney's information.
At this point, I'm a bit flabbergasted. Again, what is the end game here?
#### Day 25: Wednesday, December 13th our final communication
Sure enough the scammer continued to push the envelope... again it gave me pause in trying to understand what would come of this that he/she would get any sort of satisfaction from?
Scammer [9:25 AM] : My lawyer will be here shortly after 9:00am could I please have your lawyers phone number
I replied back with the name and phone number of our local attorney.
Still, she pressed forward with the scam!?!?
Scammer [11:58 AM] : Perfect thank you she's just leaving now and said she will call your lawyer and fax her what we would like and see for our adoption plan
Josh [1:07 PM] : Good deal. Looking forward to hearing from her. Thanks!
She even checked in to see if we had heard anything back. When we didn't respond for a few hours she pressed on asking if we would be up for a phone call the following day. So strange.
Scammer [6:35 PM] : Hi just wondering if you had a chance to look things over?
Scammer [8:21 PM] : Would you be free for a call tomorrow
I don't really know why I felt the need to respond at this point. Maybe part of me was hoping that this was still some huge misunderstanding and that there were good people on the other end of this. I've heard of the term 'catfishing' with respect to people meeting potential significant others online dating over social media. I wondered how they could let the ruse go on for so long. Having been through this ordeal I have a bit more appreciation for how a person's brain can justify another person's actions when they want the outcome so badly. At this point, we are at day 25 and I've been on edge suspicious for two or three weeks, I've seen visual proof that things are off, I've been lied to, and still, my brain was trying to make excuses for the other person. Yes, yes I'd say that I can further appreciate those in desperation allowing themselves to be catfished for months or years on end.
We sent our final communication
Josh [8:23] : Hi there, sorry we are hosting a big Christmas party and didn't see your text until just now.
Josh [8:30 PM] : We'll check in with our attorney tomorrow and then set up a call with you.
#### Day 26: Thursday, December 14th
We heard back from our local attorney early in the morning. No mention of a call from an attorney or an adoption plan being faxed to her office. I was kind of curious as to whether or not the scammer would be bold enough to call or send something over to keep the game going. Our attorney said that she thought posting whatever I felt like might help other families not be scammed by this person was a good idea. She said that she was sorry this kept happening to us (this is our third scammer) but that she was glad we didn't invest any more time into this one.
With that, we blocked all accounts, the phone number that had been communicating with us, the Instagram account that originally reached out. Everything.
We slept better that night.
## Red Flags (maybe not so red)
- Canadian phone number
- Canadian spelling of words
- Inconsistent communication pattern (very hot and cold)
- Initial contact coming through Instagram w/no explanation of reason for not contacting directly through adoption.com
- Missed calls that had initially seemed so important to the scammer's persona
- Similar phrasing and speech pattern between all personas involved
- Google search for Instagram user queenofsass20 turned up Canadian links
- queenofsass20 is a private account we requested a follow and the request was never granted
#### Other stuff that kept us on edge believing.
- All the photos were reverse image searched using both Google and Tiny Eye and came back with no results.
- All the videos were searched for on YouTube (mind you this is a long shot as it's manual ) with no results
- Eagerness to meet us in person, meet with our attorney, have us at Dr's appointments made his believable.
## Emotional recap
It's heart-wrenching and aggravating. I don't think I need to go into detail here.
We do find it hard to believe anyone now. We messaged the expectant mom in Tucson back a few days ago and she responded that she wanted to do a phone call or Skype session with us later that week. We pressed for that evening potentially and she didn't respond. We suggested the following night and she didn't and has not responded since.
I've found myself going back and looking at the phrasing of that message and wondering if it was the same scammer trying to triangulate more information on us. Maybe justify her toying with us if we were talking with multiple expectant moms behind her back. There are a lot of similarities... still I don't think it's fruitful to let my mind wander down this conspiratorial angle. The point of conveying this is that we are now having a tough time trusting people in this process. Still, we press on. Wish us luck.
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