considering disrupting adoption

I didn't see in this thread where anyone WAS judging anyone else; all I see is people questioning the idea of an adoption being disrupted and the effect it will have on the family, opinions I suppose the poster hoped to gather when she asked the original question; no one has even questioned the a-moms motives for wanting to do it and I don't see any trampling either. You also brought up the different terms involved and I want to share MHO on the subject. The difference in relinquishment and disruption is so very obvious; in fact if they weren't two totally different scenerio's there'd have been no need for the original post. Relinquishment isn't done in response to anything the CHILD has said, done, felt or caused. It is never based on a child's behavior or the impact said behavior will have on the other family members. It is done{usually} to better the enviorment in which a child will grow, develop and live. When b-parents "relinquish" a child for adoption they are in effect placing that child in a better posistion for THAT CHILD'S SAFETY AND WELL-BEING...they are not having the child leave what may have been its only stable home for the past 8 years FOR THE SAKE OF ANYONE ELSE'S SAFETY AND WELL-BEING. I am not making a judgement call, I am only stating a glaring difference in what the terms indicate. IMHO there is no "high road" to take in placing just as there is no "low road." Now that is a "judgment call." BTW: as a b-mom I HATE the term "relinquishment." If I were to make any type of "judgement call" it would be in response to the line posted that says someone else agreed to foster these kids IF they could get the monthly payment from the state for doing so; now thats dedication....makes you wonder what conversation has taken place. If a bio-parent posted that we could get Mr. Louie across town to raise "Problematic Renee" for the price of a monthly stipend we'd be looking to hire a good defense attorney real soon. I have no advice to offer this mother, but I hope you make the right choice for all of you.

You may indeed be involved in the most trying situation of your life; the fight may be harder than I could ever imagine; but to ask some one to help you out of this HELL is IMO just awful. I hope for the sake of those different little adopted siblings who the state conned you into taking when as your post indicates you never really wanted to adopt and so far are unable to see as you do your own are placed with someone who can over look the difference and love unconditionally.

hi, did your kids ever see a therapist? If so, maybe that therapist can help you get the kids in a RTC. you will still be considered a parent, but the children just cannot live safly in your home. while at the RTC, they will evaluate your kids and have them go through some testing, making sure the children are on the right medication. If at the RTC, your children dont turn around or make any progress, maybe longer term tx or group home will be the answer. no family should have to live in a battle field, weather its birth or adoption. I know parents who have had birth children get their child in a RTC. dadfor2

Missy-we've talked about this before, but in some states, the aparents have no choice but to relinquish or disrupt in order for a child to receive intensive care. So it very often is for their benefit. Also, allowing a child to abuse others makes them sicker and sometimes the only way to stop that is to disrupt. That doesn't suggest they don't love them. Also, care for disturbed children, adopted or not, is extremely expensive and in many cases with RAD kids, the parents cannot work. Although it sounds tacky to adk for the subsidy, the kids care often depends on it. I've had kids whose care exceded $4000 in one month. I guarantee you, the small amount the state paid monthly didn't cover even a fourth of that care. It might seem tacky to ask for it, but worse to take a child and ignore the care bcause the money wasn't their. Yes, birth kids get sick and require care and bparents have no choice but to find it(which sometimes lands the kids in fostercare). But, if they new before the child was conceived it's care would be thousands of $ a month, I'm sure they would be looking for financial means to care for a child before having the child. Of course, they don't really get that option. It would be worse, IMO, to take a child who needed care you couldn't afford and have them land back in the system. There is no shame in asking for help when you're drowning(or in hell). Dad-I know you've been through a lot, but RTC placement should be for only the sickest children after every other avenue has been explored. Often times a theraputic family can handle issues like constant tantrumming without disrupting the household. They exist for these children.

sorry, disgard my last post, i didnt read all of them which i should of. WE are preadoptive two boys, siblings. they were seperated for three years before they came to live with us. we had the younger child first, 4 at the time, and then 4 months later, his borther, 7 came to live with us. well, as time went on, after about 3 months, the older one started to get real angry over things that i couldnt believe. It could be the way i said 'goodnight' to him. or if he asked "what is my goldfish saying?" and then i would say "he is saying, I love you" he would go off, he had this idea in his head on what this fish was saying and if i didnt give the right responce, he would start. He would start hitting his brother and hitting us, throwing things around the house. THis tantrums would go on for hours. then you look at the younger brother, and he is sitting on the couch with his hands over his ears rocking back and fourth. we had to bring the child to the EW a few times, then sometimes, it was so bad, i had to call an ambulance to keep everyone safe. he is now in a RTC and appears to be doing much better It is about safty here we are talking about. we are still in the process of deciding if we can keep this child in the house. anyway, just didnt want you to feel alone in this. disruption is such a hard choice, but at times, its the only choice we can make for our children, including the one who just cant keep safe. If the child starts acting out again, i would call the police or an ambulance. do you have a 24 hour psych number. I know when my child was out of control, i would call them and ask what i should do. The sad thing, is they got to know my name....lol. its just an idea, i wasnt worried that the child would make up stories, but if he did, i have the psych team to verify what was going on. THey heard the screaming in the background. they were the ones who told me to call an ambulance. I wish i could offer you more support, but i dont think you live in my state. Do whats best for you whole family. your troubled kids need help, they are crying out. Get them the help they need, whatever that may be, even if its disruption. dadfor2

hi lucy joy, when we were actually looking for the best placement for our child, i did think another foster home would be best. THe thought of him in a RTC just devasted me. but after research and talking to people, (we were not thinking of disruption at this time) we all agreed that the child has been through so many foster placements, it would be better if we continue to parent him in an RTC. alot of kids dont know the difference between foster parents and forever parents (pending on age). so if a young child was placed in another home, he would think that this would be his forever home. For us, i have kept visiting him in the RTC so he knows we are still his parents, i feel if i kept visiting him in another household, for him, that would just confuse him. things for us have changed, wondering if we can do this. If we cant, i want him out of an RTC, ASAP and placed in a specialized foster home. i just didnt want to confuse him even more. all he knows, is that when he gets placed in a 'home', he gets removed. We want to change that pattern. dadfor2

to original post and dad for 2: I just remember I took a foster class last yr. required here in wash. it was for physically agressive youth. It was very involved, but I did not need at the time to put it into use, so I forgot a lot of what they said. But most of the people there were working in these homes where the kids have to go !! Maybe you have this in your state. they offered many safety tips and suggestions in dealing with them. we do emergency care for little ones 1-8 and get the hard to place- many times been in 5 homes before age 2 types. We mostly get the screamers, nite terrors, head bangers, self inflicters. Out of 13, we only had to send 2 away. Even when you do not plan to adopt those short terms, it is a very hard choice, somethings cannot be fixed.

I like reading your common sense responses. You have the exerience to back it up also. We have had many of the same experiences, although, I don't know that I have been able to make it through all you have. anyway, I also wanted to point out regarding the disrupting/relinquishing, aparent/bparent, aspect, is that you are so right about often the only way to get the needed and expensive care the child requires is to disrupt. This is because then, the child will qualify economically. Many times, we were told that if we didnt have BCBS, and an income, our girls would have been put into RTC without the court battle with one, and without several homicidal and suicidal attemps by another. We were told that if we were on assistance, it would have been easier! go figure. Regarding remarks that bchildren and achildren are same/different. Older achildren bring a lot of baggage with them. Ghosts of the past. Some children will do better in certain families. Some chldren will not do well in any family. Some willo do well in any family. We also have bchildren who can be challenging, but we KNOW the past and can get a quicker grip on it. Unfortunately, many parents dont' get support until they are at their limit, and then feel like the only way out is to disrupt. They need the support of professional who are experienced with these type of problems and don't feed into empowering he girls to become worse. They also need understanding of the problem by other parents. I've know several parents in the situation of wanting to disrupt, and with support, came out the other side OK.

Hi add, I am sorry that this is happening to your family. Where are you located? I read your original post and I understand what you are asking. We found a respite home near us and used it once a month as we worked through the behaviors and issues and tried everything we could, to get to a place where our family could function. I documented everything we tried, and I am sure you have been there and done that to nearly everything that anyone has suggested here after 8 years of struggling to parent these kids. I also understand that this situation did not go from just peachy to unbearable. It went from doable to beyond control. After we had used the respite home once a month which specialized in children with ODD and RAD and had the routines and limits in place for a year, we discussed doing a long term placement with them. They cost more than what we got for AAP but we could have gone to court or just kept paying the difference. Another placement with bio family came up. I got a list of respite providers and RTC's from an attachment therapist. Here is a site that might be helpful: [url]http://www.syix.com/adsg/[/url] Best Wishes.

I was interested in one comment that someone made about the perceived differences between relinquishment, disruption, dissolution. When I was facing the decisions we had to make, I went to the forum about birthmoms and adoptive moms talking. I related to the pain that the birthmothers felt after having given up legal rights to parent their children. I described my situation to one of the moderators and really connected. We were the same. Both faced with situations that were more than what we could do. Both faced with decisions that tore our hearts but the best interest of our children was what mattered most. Both having to look to someone else to better parent our child. Both hoping for a better life for that child than what we could give them. Relinquishment, disruption, dissolution, we are the same.

Time has passed and many things have changed. The two girls that we were thinking of disrupting on spent the summer in a residential facility. Not a good one, but time away from the family has seemed to mellow out the behaviors somewhat. They saw that we meant business and have worked on their own issues. We also have had a lot of interference with DHR (social servs.) not for our good or the children's. We saw right at the start that not everyone was interested in helping the situation. But we have continued and success in raising these two at home is now more of an option. DHR has forced us to make hard decisions and has made life even more difficult than thought possible. So we advise all to beware of asking for help in the wrong places. Thanks for both negative and positive replies. rstewart246@charter.net

Perhaps this group will help you if you still need it [url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adoptfromdisruptedadoptions/[/url]

We have had two girls for two yrs. It has been very difficult, so much so , that last summer we changed outr minds about keeping them. Everytime their bmom would come back in the picture, they would wet, distruct,lash out @ us as parents, and have irregular toenail growth ridges from the trauma of seeing her. Well, the last time they saw her in Jan04, it was terrible, then in Feb. she relinquished after the state urged us to sign a paper stating we would continue visits if she would give them up. She delivered a baby girl in jan and went to jail less than 2 wks afte leaving her with a drug teen mom who had lost her kids, so WE GOT HER TOO!!!!!! the girls have settles right down after this. they were dwelling on this baby that was coming and was going to stay with her. We too have changed our minds about asking for help. The 9 yr old has seen a counselor for over a yr. Now, coz he does not agree with us as a family our 7:30 bedtime, and NOT putting her in diapers that do not work, he has been giving me rude stabs everytime I drop her off.Like her and I are not a match, he is glad we are having crisis counsel also so she can see what is wrong with us as a family, After having a meeting with the 90 dy crisis counselor and the caseworker, he denied everything he had said to me EVER. He also refused to order and do paperwork for our family Doc for her to have a psych eval. before the adoption is filed due to poss FAS. we were told to hire our last approved sitter to stay in the lobby now why they are in counsel so he does not have to see me, since he does not like me , and he is already causing probs with her too. So , it is true when u ask for help , it can turn bad, now he is making the child feel bad in front of the sitter, but the caseworker says it does not matter she has to stay with him and I MUST DO EVERYTHNIG THE COUNSELOR WANTS WITHOUT COMMUNICATING WITH HIM. This is so unprofessionaL. We must await 5 more months of immigration, then the adoption after that. The only thing that is keeping me going is the fact that it should be done in a yr. and I can then do what I want!!! This site is wonderful for foster parents. no one else seems to understand what we go thru!!

I am new to this, but I just wanted to say I understand what you are going through. My husband and I took my nephew when he was 2 and adopted him when he was 5. He is 11 now. His biological mom, my sister, did every drug imaginable when she was pregnant and left him with anyone that would take him until we got him at 2 yr. of age. He was a very sweet, quiet little boy and then when he was 8, he started lying to us. We have tried everything. Now he is 11. He lies, he steals from us. He destroys everything. He loves to tear up his brother and sisters toys. He tears up my husband and my stuff. He has started 3 fires at my mothers house. He has started 2 fires at our house. He has been to a psychiatrist and has been diagnosed with ADHD, oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, and borderline bipolar disorder. He is on strattera and I can't see that it does a bit of good. He sees a counselor 4 hours a week. That doesn't help either. I love him to death and he is my son, but I have 3 biological kids too, and I can't have him putting them or us and himself in danger all the time. What can I do? I would love suggestions from anyone. Thanks for your time.:confused:

tweetynut, My cousin who was adopted from overseas when he was two had to live for a couple years in a residential treatment center when he was around your son's age. I would consider that if I were you. If he is setting fires, the problems might be too serious for you to handle. Have you compared his behaviors to a checklist for RAD? Perhaps if he has several symptoms of RAD it might be worth taking him to see an attachment therapist, even if he seems well attached. Especially since his current medication and therapy are not making a significant difference, I would look around for other possibilities. Have you read the book called Can This Child Be Saved? It is scary but may be helpful. Here is a piece of the description of the book (from the Amazon site, I'm sure you could get it from a public library too). Can This Child Be Saved? Solutions For Adoptive and Foster Families by Foster Cline, Cathy Helding Book Description Over 200,000 children live in foster homes in America today. 40-60% of these children have been severely and permanently damaged by their pasts, resulting in behavioral, psychiatric, emotional and neurological disorders. Large numbers of previously adopted children (both domestic and international) suffer from similar problems. In the past, these children would have been cared for in specialized facilities staffed 24 hours a day by professionals. Today they are placed in inadequately prepared adoptive or foster homes where they often become uncontrollable, and forcefully reject those who want only to love and help them. Yet, in the past when families sought understanding and help, they found that there was little or none available. Now there is. Can This Child Be Saved? Solutions for Adoptive and Foster Families... Offers parents help and hope, encouragement and support. It examines what causes children to act and react the way they do, and why conventional strategies and approaches often fail to reach them. It explores and validates parents feelings and offers struggling families clearly detailed and easy to understand parenting techniques and therapeutic approaches that DO succeed with disturbed children.