NOTICE: ICAB is flat out rejecting ALL Pre-identified Placements

Say Chuck, You ever think that all this is just a numbers game for ICAB? e.g. the referral times keep increasing due to the limited number of placements allowed each year. So maybe it's a just way they are using to whittle down the applicants that reduces the wait time for others. Johnny BTW: I'm just here in Brea if you need to get a beer.

It's hard to say Johnny. The letter Dr. Laraya sent my agency was pretty vague. All I know is there was no indication they even looked at our application beyond seeing it was a pre-identified adoption. I sure hope it doesn't have anything to do with politics between ICAB and my agency. It's tough to think that not getting our daughter comes down to the fact that we picked an agency that ICAB might have a problem with. Beer sounds good. I'll let you know if I'm coming your way!

So, let me understand this: It sounds like this child is not in an orphanage. Neither is the child we were hoping to adopt. ICAB would rather place these children in an orphanage?I've already had 2 cousins reject the idea of adopting from the Philippines because there is so much red-tape surrounding the adoption of children we "know". There is also so much red tape through agencies that they've also decided not to adopt in the Philippines. We will probably all go to China looking for children to adopt. Speaking as a Filipino, that really hurts that our home country makes it almost impossible for us to adopt a child of our homeland. In the case of cungar, I think it's just terrible that a bond has been created and ICAB seems to not have taken that into account.

sampaguita- wow, i am so sad to hear that you have been turned off to adopting from the philippines. having adopted 3 filipino children i don't understand what people mean by "red tape" there are rules and regulations to follow in every country, some more strict than others, some seeking cash "gifts" and requiring facilitators. The philippines has ICAB to oversee all adoptins, and yes , you may not "choose" the child to adopt, that is just the way they choose to regulate this process. there are thousands of abandonded and orphaned children in the philippines waiting to be adopted. we may or may not agree with their view that trying to adopt a child who still has family should not be uprooted and placed with another family, but we must respect it. this policy is clearly stated in the rules set forth by ICAB. if a person follows the regulations for applying to adopt, and they meet the requirments then a sucessfull adoption is possible. we did it 3 times and there was no more "red tape" then our friends expierenced from china and thailand.

2pinokids - I am very glad you were able to adopt 3 children from the Philippines. I don't know if that is recently or not...but I have even been discouraged by my relatives who live in the Philippines to pursue adoption elsewhere because of the "red-tape" and disorganization stemming from who knows what. As I mentioned, I've already had 2 cousins start adoption proceedings in the Philippines but both have decided to adopt in China. It's been almost 3 yrs since they started their paperwork for the Philippines and nothing has really moved. I was so excited when my cousin called to tell me of an abandoned baby boy at the hospital where her cousin-in-law is a physician. I called the US State Dept to find out what I should do on this end and have 1/2 a dozen unanswered emails and phone calls to ICAB. To learn that we cannot adopt this little boy because ICAB is rejecting all pre-identified placements is disheartening. I find it disturbing that instead of being able to pursue this adoption, (we would have filed all necessary papers, test, Home Study, etc...) this 7 month old baby will have to be placed in an orphanage for the next year or more. It's not so much that WE won't be able to adopt him but that he will have to be placed somewhere "on hold" when there was a couple ready to adopt him. Yes - he will be adopted eventually or perhaps returned to the mother who tells my cousin she still doesn't want him. The fact that a couple actually wants him and can't because of rules - well, it's just sad.

All of what 2pinokids said would be well and good if there wasn't many past examples of ICAB waiving these rules and allowing couples to adopt pre identified kids. I have been in direct contact with at least 3 people who have accomplished this in the past and there are many others. Sampaguita, I could put you in contact with these people if you like. Through a combination of lawyering, waiting and badgering ICAB these people were able to accomplish this. So Sampaguita don't believe it hasn't been done. Furthermore, these rules ARE NOT clearly stated on the ICAB website. There is an esoteric statement about independent placement but nowhere does it say "Applications for pre-identified adoptions will be rejected in all cases" which would put an end to any ambiguity. Finally, the statement that Philippines adoption has the same red tape as China is not true. China has an extremely structured program in which you submit your paperwork, a match is made for you 6-9 months later and you travel with prearranged groups of applicants on regimented trips that unite you with your child 2 months later. There is nothing close to this in the Philippines.

After re-reading this thread, I noted that there are two terms being used that do not mean the same thing "Pre-Identified Placements" and "Independent Placement" but are being used interchangaly. Take a look [url]http://www.icab.com.ph/page7.html[/url] ICAB posts three different cuts from documents on what must be complied with for the child to be qualified for the process and possibly for your application to be accepted. ICAB apparently is unwilling to come out and admit that you need for a Lawyer for independent placements whereas DSWD will specifically directs you to an appropriate Lawyer for your case. In your letter from ICAB what term is specifically used?

Johnny how have you been? The letter referred to our case as an independent placement which I always thought was synonomous with pre-identified. How would you define the difference?

For Independent placements they want you to comply with the rules of no contact with the child. And the link is where they provide you with the specifics of where the rules come from. On this page they should just come out and say it but they don't. Under ICAB's policy it is unethical to pre-identify a child for Intercountry Adoption. Think of it like this: Rather than the parent(s) having the right to decide the future of the child, they believe that the "child" has the right or at least the chance to be with the biological parent. And because there are vulnerable parent(s) they need help from the government so the rules attempt to solve this problem of exploitation through the terms trafficking and protection. The rules were not established for all children they were established only for orphan children. Non-orphan children can only be qualified for the process and this is true for both Philippine Law and US Law because they both subscribe to the Hague. on Children's protection. Thus we have the loop holes that non-orphans must jump through.

<<<<<Finally, the statement that Philippines adoption has the same red tape as China is not true. China has an extremely structured program in which you submit your paperwork, a match is made for you 6-9 months later and you travel with prearranged groups of applicants on regimented trips that unite you with your child 2 months later. There is nothing close to this in the Philippines.>>>> Hello Cungar, You described the nsn (non special needs) program which many people use to adopt infants from China. Another program, Waiting Child program, places special needs and healthy older children with families. Adoptive families select a particular child from a waiting list held by an agency. Each agency gets a different list every 3-4 months. Unmatched children's info is returned to China. There are several steps in this process: (1) select a child listed with an agency and apply with that agency (2) send a Letter of Intent (LOI) to China and wait for PreApproval (PA) (3) prepare homestudy and dossier and submit to China (DTC) where it is Logged In (4) China approves family, who already received PreApproval, and gives them a Travel Date which is usually 2-3 weeks later. Currently, wait average is 90 days from DTC to TA (shortest this month is 65 and longest 150) The PA is taking about 1 month. Of course you add in time to build dossier and submitting I600A with US-CIS. Sometimes, families will travel alone, as done in the RP program, but will have a guide for appointments and outings. Sometimes a family receives TA at the same time as nsn families with their agency, so are able to travel with a group. So, in reality, the RP and China WC programs have similarities, with the exception of timeline and dossier requirements. Dossier costs come out about the same when you add in cost of pyschological testing/statement for RP as compared to China's docs being certified and authenticated. Linda

<<<Not to persuade anyone from RP adoptions, but there are many waiting children. In fact, there's a 13yo healthy girl who must be adopted before April, when she will turn 14yrs. That's China's rule.>>> I forgot to add that all agency fees have been waived and it would help if a family has a homestudy and CIS clearance.

Please remember that posting information about children that are available is not allowed. I know the information was general but even general information about a specific child is not allowed.

Cungar - Oh...I believe it has been done. I am afterall, Filipina, ;) and know enough about how things work in the PI. Johnny's assertion that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" is all too true. Magnoliamom - I thought Cungar was referring more to the fact that China seems to have a much more systematic way of handling international adoptions than the RP. The timeline he noted is about the same (couple - 4 months difference maybe) for the China adoptions my friends are currently engaged in for infants to 18 mo olds. I understand that right now, the process from start to finish for a Filipino baby is up to 3 yrs. That's quite different from China's. Judging from some of the posts I've read about dossiers being stacked on desks, unfiled, etc...and with little organization and staffing, the China adoption program seems to be much more organized than in the Philippines. It's the same feedback I've received from relatives in the Philippines who have cautioned us from even trying. BrandyHagz - I am new to this site. How are we supposed to become informed if we're not allowed to discuss pre-identified children? None of us has listed the hospitals, orphanages, lawyers, specific towns/cities or names of these children. I don't think anyone has actually posted info about the children other than the circumstances on how they became available and what challenges we are up against should we decide to pursue adoption. At any rate, I don't want to purposely break any "rules" so could you please direct me to the post where it states that we are not allowed to discuss, even in general, the circumstances surrounding the adoption of a pre-identified child? I have looked in the FAQs area but it deals only with the mechanics of this forum and not substance. ETA: I found the forum rules in your signature. Identifying information about minors (especially foster children) should never be posted. The minimum age for the release of information in all fifty states is at least eighteen, therefore the use of the forums to search for someone under the age if eighteen is prohibited. This is the only rule I found that remotely resembles what you've asserted is a violation of board rules on this particular thread. I don't see how any of us has violated this. We're not searching for anyone (or in the 50 states for that matter) or seeking out someone's identity. Please clarifiy so that we're not breaking protocol. Thank you.

[font=Arial Narrow]This is in response to my emails to Dr. Laraya regarding the adoption of a baby boy in the Philippines (pre-identified, non-related). The latest update is that the baby is back with his birth mother until arrangements can be made for him to be adopted. They are hoping that he can be adopted by a relative. [/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font] [font=Arial Narrow]I hope this letter will help to clarify any confusion regarding a desire to adopt a pre-identified child.[/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font] [font=Arial Narrow][/font] [font=Arial Narrow]We noted that you are interested in adopting a non-related child. Please note that your case is considered pre-identified placement which is not encouraged by both the international law - The Hague Convention on the Protection of Children and Co-operation in Respect of Inter-Country Adoption (THC) and the Philippine national law the Inter-Country Adoption Law of 1995. The ICAB does not process this kind of adoption. We strongly discourage you to pursue adopting this child.[/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font][font=Arial Narrow]Where the child has been construed to have been given up for adoption, the first step to be taken is to determine if the child is truly eligible for adoption. Therefore, the referral of the child to the Department of Social Welfare and Development (DSWD) must be undertaken. The Birth Certificate of the child (if applicable) must not be simulated. Otherwise, this must be rectified in a Philippine Court. Generally, if the child is a product of an out of wedlock relationship, it is facilitative if the birthmother can be traced/located so that she could be counseled by the DSWD Field Office social worker as to what plans will serve her child֒s best interests. If the relinquishment of her child is what truly will be for the childs best welfare, a Deed of Voluntary Commitment (DVC) will need to be signed by the birthmother (by both parents if the child is legitimate) signifying her voluntary, unconditional and irrevocable decision to give up the child for adoption and as much as possible, this must be notarized within the same day. Finding the birthmother will also help stave off the need for the court proceeding for Declaration of Abandonment (DA) for in our country, this venue takes quite some time.[/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font][font=Arial Narrow]We advise you to coordinate with the concerned DSWD in the childҒs place of residence so that their social worker can conduct the eligibility assessment of the child and facilitate the legal processes that have to be undertaken.[/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font][font=Arial Narrow]If you will pursue adopting this child after he is assessed to be eligible for adoption, there is NO ASSURANCE that he will be placed with you as he/she has to pass through the regional and inter-regional matching before he/she will be cleared for inter-country adoption. These procedures are facilitated by the DSWD. There are chances of the childs being matched to other adoptive families in the Roster of Approved Applicants (RAA) who went through the legal procedure of adoption (i.e. not pre-identifying a child) and are patiently waiting for the entrustment of (a) child(ren) to them. Hence, there can be no assurance that the child will be matched to you. This is the legal process which must be followed for a non-relative adoption.[/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font][font=Arial Narrow]As prospective adoptive parents (PAPs) adopting through the regular route (with no pre-identified child), you need to contact one of our accredited foreign adoption agencies (FAAs) for the conduct of your Home Study which will assess your eligibility, suitability and capability to adopt. You will find the FAAҒs address and other pertinent information e.g. inter-country adoption processes, requirements and governing laws, etc. in our website: [url="http://www.icab.com.ph/"]www.icab.com.ph[/url].[/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font][font=Arial Narrow]We advise you too to take time to visit the US Embassy website: [url="http://www.usembassy.state.gov/manila"]www.usembassy.state.gov/manila[/url] for the needed information with regards to the requirements you have to comply with in relation to your adoption concerns.[/font][font=Arial Narrow][/font][font=Arial Narrow]Should you have further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us, attention: Ms. Jonalyn Bahol, an ICAB social worker assigned to your concerns.[/font][font=Arial Narrow] [/font]

Please keep in mind that there are SEVERAL deleted posts on this thread - posts which gave SPECIFIC information on children available for adoption. It is against the rules of this site to post ANY information about adoptable children - because this forum is a SUPPORT forum, not a matching forum. There are MANY avenues out there for finding available children, this forum is not one of them, I'm sorry. You can access the Terms of Service, Site Rules and Forum Rules by clicking the links in my signature. Additionally, posting emails/PM's/Communication, without posting the written consent of the sender, is not allowed. Doing so without consent violates the privacy of the sender. As this is the third warning regarding the rules - the thread will be closed for 24 hours. [Edited to add: Keep in mind, moderators and I have edited/deleted several pots on this thread - so while you may be bewildered at the warnings because you don't see an infraction, trust that the infraction was there and has been removed from the site. Also - we give warnings as a courtesy - the Terms of Service clearly states that anyone who violates the rules/ToS can be banned without warning or explanation...we offer these warnings as a courtesy.]