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My 12 year old adopted daugther (whom I've had for 2 yrs.) is going to be 13 in a few weeks. A little about her - she is diagnosed with ADHD and takes medication. She was previously (four years ago) diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Adjustment Disorder with Mixed Emotions & Conduct. She is developmentally delayed and has delays in cognitive and adaptive behavior.
She is starting to mouth back, but doesn't think it is considered talking back or being smart. Example: I will tell her to do things that she may not want to do and she will go in her room mumbling. I will ask her what did she say and she will say "I was just talking to myself." I will tell her to repeat what she said and she will repeat it but the things that she says is clearly smart things and it is clearly talking back. Most of the time when she does this I will be in another room with the door closed (where she thinks I can't hear her). She also sometimes frown back at me (not often though, which I have told her that is not acceptable).
She will also do and say things and say that she didn't. You can hear her say something and in a few minutes she will say she didn't say it (even though someone heard her). Yesterday I was outside on the phone and I noticed a little peep spot in the blinds where someone had been peeping. I went in the house and asked who was peeping, both of my kids didn't admit to it. However, I know the 7 yr. old couldn't because I got her to stand at the window and there is no way she is tall enough to reach it. My 12 yr. old was able to reach it because of her tallness. Of course she said she didn't do it. I told her I didn't want to hear it because I didn't believe her anyway because she lies.
So she got upset and started crying. Later I go in my room and shut the door I hear her talking. So I asked her what did she say. She said "I said I know I wasn't looking out no window." I asked her was she talking back to me, of course she said no mam. I told her it was talking back and being smart because no one was saying anything to her. She was just walking around running her mouth. So I punished her.
She does these things in front of her 7 yr. old sister and it isn't setting a good example. She put all her underwear in her drawers without folding them and her 7 yr. old sister told her she had to fold them. She told her younger sister that "she didn't have to do anything if she didn't want to and that she does what she wants to do." I informed her that she does not do what she wants while living with me and while she is living with me she has to do things she doesn't want to do.
I'm sure there are others who have expereienced similar problems like I'm going through. Do you have any suggestions on how to handle these behaviors?
I have recently took her to be tested by a Child Development Clinic who did not notice any other type disorders other than the ADHD. However, I wasn't noticing all these behaviors that I am starting to notice. This is a bit personal, but she has also started her menstral cycle and I don't know if that has something to do with her different behavior or not. I feel the behavior has always been there and I just haven't noticed because she let's it out mostly when I can't hear her.
When she was placed in care of the agency that thought she had been sexually abused but couldn't prove it. I read over some reports (done by a development clinic) that stating her foster mom said the child told her she was molested by a cousin. When I took her to the development clinic here (4 yrs. later) and they asked her if anyone had touched her she said no. I also had a talk with her and she said no one ever touched her not even a family member. So I am not sure if anything sexual ever happened to her or not.
Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.
:confused:
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My daughter sounds similar to your daughter. They have most of the same issues. My daughter is not developmentally delayed, but does have a low-average i.q. She is an only child, so there is no one for her to influence. I don't think you can totally eliminate the talking back. Just consequences, like you are doing, and praise when she is respectful. You are also right about the period playing a role. My daughter has wicked PMS. Her psychiatrist said I could up her prozac on those days, once the pattern was established.
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We recently adopted a 12 yr old girl, S. S just turned 13 and she is developmentally delayed, has ADHD and possibly some level of FAS (or FAE). She frequently acts much younger than her age-she has the mentality of about a 7 or 8 yr old. When she moved in, we had a talk with her about lying and respecting others. She lies quite frequently, but claims that she doesn't know when she's lying. We told her that it would be impossible to not know if she's lying, since she has to make up a story for the lie. We've tried taking away the one thing that seems to mean something to her-her freedom. She is grounded to her bedroom (she has no TV or video games in there) and she has to sit there quietly and do nothing but read or do homework for the day or two that she's grounded, she's not even allowed to sleep until her normal bedtime. It seems to work for a while-she'll have tears in her eyes because everyone else gets to eat meals together and go out for walks and play games, but within a few days, she's right back to her old tricks! She'll even say that she's forgotten about having been grounded and why she was grounded several days later (even though she's been told repeatedly that she is to think about why she's grounded). We're also stuck as to what to do. How can we get through to this otherwise decent kid that it is wrong to lie? Even when it's not about something big? She lies about the dumbest things (like a lot of kids do), but we just don't want it to continue to be a habit for her. Has anyone found other things that work for this kind of behavior? Apparently, the grounding alone doesn't work! Thanks for listening!C&J
I don't have first hand experience but am preparing myself, since we will be brining in an older child later this summer (that may have some lying issues). Some adoptive parent friends of mine have told me to claim the child is lying on other simple things, so they can see how it hurts when someone doesn't believe them when they are telling the truth. That they'll get so frustrated that they aren't trusted they'll start to apply this to things they would normally lie about. For example:Parent: Im thinking of having some ice cream for dessert tonight... do you like chocolate ice cream?child: yes, I do, can I have some too?Parent: I don't believe you that you like chocolate ice cream..child: but I do...Parent: Its so hard to believe you because you have been lying about silly things that you know you should tell me the truth about.Child: I really do like chocolate ice cream!parent: Well, Im sorry, it must be frustrating not to have me believe you. But since I don't believe you like chocolate ice cream, I guess it will just be me having chocolate ice cream for dessert. Maybe you should think about what your lying earlier has done to destroy our trust and think about how you may want to improve that behavior in the future. My friends have said they've pulled this several times within a few day period on some (relatively small, but key) things for the child (going to park for fun, ice cream desser, etc) and the child really hates the fact that they aren't believed. Also, its a logical consequence that you've lied several times and lying breaks trust and makes it difficult to believe you in the future. I'd have that talk with child and then apply the no trust game. Im sure others have good suggestions too!
I heard this once at a training and thought it was good because most older adopted children are very good at lies (seeing as they've been lied to plenty in their own lives and have a difficult time trusting). Tell her you're having her favorite meal for dinner. Say nothing and fix something else. When she says "you said . . . . " you can say "I lied". And leave it at that. Maybe at some point she'll understand how important it is to tell the truth. We had a foster daughter the same age as your daughter and she had some "attitude problems". Rather then send her to her room AWAY from the family as discipline, I kept her close to me. That way I KNEW what she was doing and although it wasn't ideal circumstances, it helped her to bond with me and learn to trust me. We worked through it together rather then apart. Just a suggestion.
Back talking is a passive aggressive activity. When you respond to it by punishing her you are confirming her belief that you are "out to gt her". Since it is obviously not working at all, perhaps you would be willing to try a completely different tactic. First off, as much as you can, ignore. A lot of things she is doing right now, she is doing just to bug you. And every time you respond she thinks she has won. so first off, pick your battles. If it really doesn't matter, let it go. Like, does it really make any difference if her underwear are not neatly folded in her drawer? Are you worried they will get wrinkled?
When you hear her muttering under her breath (which is obviously meant for you to hear, or you wouldn't hear it) either ignore it completely, or ask her if she is speaking to her imaginary friend again. Make a joke of it. Laugh about it! She will get the point soon enough that she can't bait you into a fight. It isn't easy to keep your cool when they are trying so hard to make you lose it, but everytime you get mad they win.
If you haven't already read Love and Logic I suggest you get a copy of the book, and or the dvd. They have their own website. A couple other good books are Loving the Angry Child and When Your Kids Push Your Buttons.
Zorro, have you done reading and/or research on FAS? Your daughters lack of cause and effect thinking, and her not retaining information are classic of FAS.
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I've got to say that I do not agree with the posters who said you should set up a situation where you are effectively lying to your child to teach them a lesson. This smacks to much of manipulation. There are better ways, other consequences. I like Love and Logic. Learning from natural consequences is real life, it is what they will experience on the "outside".