Struggling with concept of open adoption - maybe not for us.

Emster put it very well! I also am an adoptive mom to 2 1/2 year old and have a bio son that is 6. When we started the entire adoption process we too had many concerns about open adoption. Our agency helped us better understand what open adoption can entail. We have a semi-open adoption by sending photos, letters and emails. I like Emster wish it was more open for all of us. My son will appreciate that information we do have and share with his firstmom. Remember what was right for us may not work for others. You must go with what feels right for you. Good luck on your adoption journey. Michelle

In foster/adoption, I am surprised that they are telling you that everything is a "open adoption" We are going to do it, foster/adopt. I view profiles at least once a day, use to be hours. I have finally gotten over staring at the faces, and "looking" But I close and move on with any that says "family need to keep in touch with" Our classes were a "general" class, it was for foster, infant, foster/adoption cover all classes. So maybe it was a cover all class? I can not see where they would say... "foster/adoption has to be open adoption" If you ask them if they purposely mean "foster/adopt" and they confirm you have to have open adoption for foster/adoption. If they tell you, you have no choice, I then suggest you check and talk with other agencys. For us? no way! I won't even consider a child with family they need to keep intouch with unless it's siblings in the system. But then it could depend on the childs caseworker's meaning in "open adoption" because this could as simple as "school picture every year" (i could handle that maybe and that's about it...) or could be weekily phone talks and visits.. I think "open" in foster/adopt is way to many variables. These people didn't loose custody of their children because they were such great parents, These kids were removed to save their lives. I know a young couple that lost their children, they were mentally handicap and one simple mistake, zap they took the kids. But these kids are free for adoption because the parents lost "all rights and say" in their lives in most cases. So for us? no way! At least I agree 100% with that. Fact of adopting these kids, is the dream and heart of heart wish that they could be with their parents and their parents be "ok" Think about this, My parents were divorced when I was 4 years old. Growing up my one true heart wish was my parents could be together, esp when divorce kids were "eewww" when I was growing up. In those days, teachers put you "divorcee kids" in the back of the room, like we were a disease the other kids could catch. But I was raised to understand that it may not be what I wanted, but it was for the best, and I was raised to understand and accept it, doesn't mean I didn't dream of "what if's" I believe we have a good understanding of these kids, and will take more classes, read more, and talk to the friends I have made here for help if I need it. But I believe these kids understand and realize, it may not be "what" they want, but it is for the best. If then can help them to continue the understanding, and back that up with our love, and raise them the best we can, and help them along with understanding, my family did for me growing up. I have no doubt they will come to be as much happily a part of our family as my bio children are. I understand that heart of heart dream, so would never let it get me down. But I will tell you thanks to these forums we were completely prepared for the classes and reality of adoption. Do not fool yourself, international adoption, has the same resentment *so to speak* In some ways it can be worse, but at least you don't have the fear of them packing up and going back. I give you WORSE case situation. ONLY BECAUSE, Your only seeing the worse case situation in domestic adoption. Think about the resentment of that 7 year old from say Russia, you took them an ocean away from the family, culture and life, made it impossible for them to ever see their birth parents again. In a strange country, completely strange culture, strange way of life, and have to give up their language. Being stripped of everything that makes them who they are. Some cases even their names. Taking away any hope for the heart of heart dream on top of it all. I am NOT saying this is how it is in every case, but like i said your looking at the worse case situation in domestic addoption, so I offer you the same worse case for international. International doesn't "take" away any of the problems that these kids have with detachment, acceptance of their situation, etc. The only thing it takes away is the chance of them packing up and going home, Before they have enough money to afford the trip. Spend more time here on the boards, ask more questions. Believe me you are meeting the people in adoption with the "worse case REAL LIFE not What if's" I truely believe the biggest % of the people come here seeking help, support, advice. They don't come in search of sites like this because everything is great, and just want to tell someone. Read read and more reading of these forums... I have doubts on days too, and I ask... but PDQ someone reasures me. Like I said, if they insist foster/adoption is "open adoption" and that you "have to accept it" make sure they are refering to foster/adopt. Then I would say, try another agency. But like I said, could be the classes are generalized, and like ours probably geared more toward that foster parents, and adoption of infants. Because that's what 95% of the people coming to the agency we are using are. The teachers paused in our classes and addressed us knowing we were there and interested strickly in foster/adoption. For now that's the best I can offer, and I know everyone will pipe up and offer other suggestions too. But please don't fool yourself into thinking you will get away from the "issues" an "American Foster" child will have by being adopted... doesn't really matter where they come from, they will all have the same "issues"

By the way PDQ means pretty darn quick... and also, read the "adopting the older child" forums. If they dont' reasure you nothing will! I have no doubt it's going to be ruff, but I have no doubt as long as we are armed with as much knowledge on how to help them, and raise them. I have no doubt it will be just as rewarding as my 4 children are in my life.

I doubt that your classes meant that older child adoptions would be an open adoption, just that you might consider being open to varying levels of contact depending on the situation. Or just simply that the overall change in adoption in general is not the same as it was 20+ years ago and is more open today than closed. However, in a foster care adoption, there is not a push for openness on the same level as a domestic infant adoption. At least not in my experience. I think people need to realize that what Open means for an infant and VOLUNTARY placement is completely different than what open can mean for a INVOLUTARY and foster care adoption. We have a closed adoption and I would not approve of too much openess but I do wish to find their bmom and establish contact. Not to have an open adoption, but to have more information both from the bmom and FOR my kids. Every situation is different and I think until you are matched with your kids, and honestly maybe not til after the first year, you really won't know what if any kind of contact would be good/bad. So just read a lot, ask questions and start thinking more "gray" than black and white...:)

Seems to me that you are missing part of the picture of open adoption. The part where you, as the PARENT, determine what your child is told, and control their exposure to people of whom you do not approve. Here is your scenario: And here's how it is likely to work when you exercise your rights as the parent of the child: THE GOVERNMENT (not you, you don't enter the picture until the child is already removed) takes a 7 year old away from his parents 'cause they're negligent drug users and, just like a beaten dog, they still love their BIOLOGICAL (not "real" - vocabulary matters and you are real too) mom and dad. So mom & dad keep in touch with little Johnny over the years (remember that YOU will be in touch with Johnny over the years, too, and that he'll probably be in counseling as well). reminding him how much they miss him and that they'll always be a family. (If any person says somethng like this to your child, stop allowing the contact. Because that is not helping the child to adjust to living with you, and not helping the child to think of you as his parents, and anybody who is not helping the child does not get to speak with the child. You can cut off contact, or supervise the contact, or be the intermediary who gets all the contact and only passes along those pieces of it which are helful to the child.) Then in John's teens, they've gotten their lives together, (that isn't likely, I hope you know) and the phone calls start taking a new tone about re-unification. (Again, this would not happen if you had caught and stopped the inappropriate conctact in the younger years.) It's the troubled teen years, and 16 year old John decides he's going back to the mom those evil government people stole him from. (He's still a minor, he can't go anywhere you don't approve of.) You cannot stop everything, of course. But you couldn't stop everything regardless of what you do about contact when the child is young - there are instances of young adults up and leaving their biological families too. But you do what you can to be sure that your child is exposed only to what helps him. Biological parents who admit to having done wrong and who say they hope the child is happy and healthy now are helping. Biological parents who whine and moan about unfair systems that removed their child and how they count the days until the child returns are NOT helping. And the amount of contact that they will receive will reflect whether you believe they are helping or not. Remember that it is you who controls how much contact there is, what form it takes, and ultimately what you permit to be said during that contact. Contact that starts fully open with visits can be curtailed down with biological parents who are inappropriate - curtailed down to phone calls, or down to letters, or down to one-sided contact with yousending a card once a year - all of that can happen when necessary. On the other hand, contact that starts with a single card from you per year can be increased with biological parents who are appropriate and helpful to the child. Anyhow, I'm typing too many words. I'm sure you get the idea. You do NOT have to permit people to be unhelpful to your child. Boundaries can be set, and can be enforced, so that your child is not exposed to people who are not helping him - whether he is related to those people or not!

Well I'm reading and appreciating all these replies as they come in......

I was not happy about open adoption either when we decided to foster adopt. BUT, keep in mind that "open" can mean a lot more than it seems. Technically we have an "open" adoption but the only people we have contact with are my son's bio-siblings. Also remember that "Open" can mean something as simple as sending pictures once a year. Also, in many cases where the children are taken from the bio family for abuse, neglect & drugs, open can mean that you open a PO box so they can send things for you to hold for your child when they are an adult. Don't give up on foster/adopt. Social workers tend to stress open adoptions because that seems to be the "thing" to do these days. BUT, no one should expect you to maintain openness if you are not comfortable or if the bio-parent is dangerous or unstable.

I understand your concerns. I think it's great that your really looking into all this and how you would feel before you found yourself caught in it. We've adopted all 3 of our kids through fostercare and should finalize on our 4th in the next couple weeks. My first two started out as closed adoptions. We had never had a chance to meet their birthfamilies. But my third came to us first as a fosterchild. The first time met her birthmom was after we had already had her in our home for a year. At that time I felt like 100% her mother. Their was no doubt in my mind. Of course I realized that she was not mine through birth...and that she wasn't even legally free for adoption yet. But in my mind "I" was her MOTHER. But when I first saw her birthmother it's like everythign changed. I saw the love she had for her daughter just shine all about her. I cried as she was so overcome by emotion at one point that she had to run out of the room to take a break. It was the first time I really ever understood that while I was her mother ....I would never be her ONLY mother. I knew from that moment on that we were BOTH her mother and that one of us WOULD loose her and have to feel that immense hole in our hearts. I think my love and compassion for her and what she must have been going through is what really opened my heart to open adoption. At first I did it much more for her than for anyone else. I wanted to help her from feeling the whole burden and sting of that loss. I wanted to help ease her pain in any way I could. In doing so I never imagined what that would mean for me or my family. I was never before confronted with all these questions, concerns, fears etc that open adoption would bring and ours certianly was not the "ideal open adoption". Her birthmom was really struggling accepting what had happened and rather than taking responcibility for her actions....she blamed me for everything and pretty much hated me...i was the enemy (she even admits it..now) but i didn't need her to tell me....cause i knew it and felt it over the last 2+ years. Which made contact very difficult and even though we are finally able to communicate better through insatant messenger how we feel....meeting in person is still very awkward for us. So all I'm trying to say is I really admire you for thinking about all this stuff before hand and considering how you will feel. I think you should be true to your feelings and do what your heart tells you to do. If that means a closed adoption than that is what you should go for. While I don't regret the past....because I have learned so much from it. I do realize now that I should have done things much SLOWER. I should have allowed some time for us to all take in everything that had happened and work out our own grief/joy/loss/anger etc....before we jumped into anything. I do believe in open adoption. But I also believe that contact should be built SLOWELY and based on what your family and your CHILD needs rather than focusing on what the birthparents need or want.

It's been said here quite a few times, but it's true, "open" means many different things. We are in a domestic/newborn situation that is open...visits, phone calls, sharing of all contact info...but what we always keep in mind is our ultimate responsibility and concern is for our son's well-being and we won't put him in a situation that hurtful to him. It's been 4 years now and the contact has lessened greatly since his birth, but it's there if we want it and he's established a relationship with is first-family which is what we wanted. I personally would like more contact, but I'm letting firstmom set the course. I think I would be weary of open adoption to this extreme in a situation where rights where involuntarily terminated. I think the personalities have to mesh to have what we are fortunate enough to have. Good luck to you...this really is a journey! Kelsie

Well that is really a fear I have about my daughter. Will she want to go back to her birthparents when she is 18 yrs old? Will she initiate contact with them before that? Will they lure her into drugs or otherwise destroy her life? I am surprised if your classes meant open adoption with the bparents. The county placed my daughter (before she was mine) with a bgrandmother with the intention of adoption, but the county later removed her BECAUSE the grandmother allowed contact with her son (the child's father). The social workers seem quite clear about contact with the bparents not being in a child's best interest. My daughter's therapist said it would be best if my daughter does not have contact even when she turns 18 yrs old. My county does favor open adoption with brelatives that are appropriate, but they only recommend it not require it. I personally would prefer if my daughter was only part of her new family but it is not really too bad to have the open contact because it makes my daughter so happy. But there are hassles sometimes. Even tho I worry my daughter will reject me for her bparents when she is a teenager, I'm not sure that it is likely. On the one hand she claims to want to go back to them, on the other hand she makes me myriad drawings addressed to 'My favorite Mommy', 'Greatest Mom', 'Coolest Mom Ever', and a little poster of the 5 reasons why "my Mom is the best" (including 'She feeds me' and 'She adopted me'). The older she gets the more it is clear that she knows how bad and dangerous her bparents are, but she still likes to miss them and wish she were with them...as long as there is no risk of it happening.

OK...we have a visit in about 13 hours...so that gives you and idea of where my mind is right now. I am completely torn when it comes to open adoption. I am not sure that in the case of foster children it is necessarily the best thing. I also think it is hard on both the a-parents and the kids. For example, Bear was 8 weeks old when he came to our care. Twice a year we have to pack him up and take him to see this "family" with whom to him are complete strangers. They smother him with kisses and hugs and say over and over "you remember me, you know who I am". The whole time I am thinking "he has no clue who you are and I know that look on his face...he is saying give me my space lady!" This family is...a little off center...to be nice. They all have a strong history of drug use and mental health issues that are not always being treated with medication. What about the day Bear says "mom, I don't want to go". Don't ge me wrong, I do understand that there are positives and can be VERY healthy open adoption relationships...BUT in the case of foster children I am not entirely inclined to agree. I often think the state offers this to parents who can't get their "you know what" together as a way that they can still see their children and not continue to drag cases out forever. In the end, I just wonder if it is not the children who lose out. Then again, with our other son, his parents dissappeared. I know thru his maternal aunt that his mother has both aids and cervical cancer. She is only 23 and if and when he gets to an age where he wants to meet her I don't think she will be alive. His father is in prison and has HepC...I don't know what that will do to him. So, here I have 2 very different cases...which son will benefit the most? Will there be resentment because one HAS contact and the other does not? Will there be a problem because one feels he HAS to visit his biological parents while the other is "lucky" enough to not have to? I have no idea. What I DO know is that no matter WHO their biological families are, WE are their parents and family right now and every day. We love them very much and will spend every day doing what we feel is in their best interests. If one day closing the adoption is what is best, then so be it. If we think that more contact is OK, then we will cross that bridge at that time. Agreeably though, open adoption is not for everyone and I would not agree to anything you are not comfortable with. There is not an "adoption" case worker out there (who knows what they are doing) who would force you into a situation you do not want to be in. That being said...wish me luck tomorrow!

Yes I agree. In fact there is now financial incentives to each county that places foster children for adoption. When I adopted my son it was 5K per child. Open adoption is being used as a carrot to get parents who have lost children to child protective to expedite the process and get them to sign voluntarily to place as opposed to going thru the very time consuming and expensive involuntary termination of parental rights. If I were the OP I would really question WHY the county is coming at preadoptive parents with the concept that they need to get wrapped around open adoption. Is it one of the few States that have open adoption laws on the books specifically for foster children being placed in adoptive homes like Minnesota??? I would be wary of any government agency that promoted open adoption so willy nilly. It's a serious decision that can only be made on a case to case basis and acceptance of it should NEVER be the make or break decision for potential adoptive parents willing to adopt one of our half million kids in the system. If the OP's family is hesitant about OA then they should be able to be considered for children where OA is not an option. I would encourage much reading and visiting with current foster parents to see what exactly the State deems as OA (I believe OA is face to face contact on a regular basis between birthfamily and child... any other contact is information sharing openess and would not IMHO be OA) If the State is really referring to information sharing then that should not be a difficult or unreasonable expectation of PAP's. Face to face... well that's another kettle o fish. I just got a huge packet of info from my State on some new foster adopt program being funded by the State and administerd thru a private agency. I shook my head when I saw it. My State is having some serious problems getting foster parents and adoptive parents for the over five age kids. If they set a standard that face to face OA was basically mandatory I believe they would have a nearly impossible time getting average everyday paps to agree to it. We don't have OA laws on our books at all and we still are having a hard time. It's okay to not want to participate in OA. If the preadoptive family feels it isn't in their best interest than they should be able to say it isn't right for them and only be presented with children who face to face OA is not an option. Nan

First, let me explain that we have adopted privately and through the system (three were from the system, older children when placed...ages 6, 3, and 7yrs....two separate adoptions). And, let me add that three of our seven children (five have been infants), are now grown and on their own. Neither the 'now grown', nor the kids in the middle ages , have EVER mourned for their bios. The questions they asked, were not those 'probing questions every book likes to write about when stating that open-ness is absolutely necessary', and there are kids that couldn't care less about their 'roots'------at LEAST in the manner that a lot of these books like to write about. Did and do any of my children ask questions about biological roots? In some manner at one time or another, maybe....but very INfrequently. But, these 'issues' the adoptive kids are supposed to have, are, I think, more the issues the agencies and systems would like to THINK they'll have, because of a few disgruntled adoptees who---usually---were not parented fairly while growing up. (I know, JMO...) Concerning the three older adopted kids.......all of their mother bios (father bio in one case) were abusive in all ways......neglectful, etc. They were drug users and basically, as far as I'm concerned, not anyone we'd want the kids OR our family to be involved with. In all cases, part of the issues they dealt with, were their FEARS that the bios would come to take them away. Some state systems continually like to think the fantasy of 'every kid longing for their bio', is REALLY fact, when most of the time, this is so incredibly far from the truth. I remember with one child---before his finalzation---the agency FORCED visits with his biosister (another person who sexually abused him). He hated these, and actually asked if he could discontinue them. The system forced these visits all the same and no one could believe it. Once he was finalized, he requested that he not have them again...and 11yrs later, he STILL has no desire to 'connect'. (Though I'm sure the system would love to think that he is...) As someone else mentioned, if pressured open adoption is a reason you're thinking you can't do domestic adoption----re-think this--please. There are still birthpeople who want only semi-or closed adoptions. And even with semi, you don't necessarily have to do that 18yrs of contact. I honestly think some states are trying to push this open-ness stuff, because they know that as long as the bios have contact with the kids, they (the state) can be 'involved' somewhat with the family'. I also think that some agencies do the same thing in that the ones that hold a lot of files and info about bio families, have somehow more credibility and reason to stay open. Foster to adopt often holds a lot more strings than private adoptions, and I believe the strings are getting tighter all the time. As others have stated, if you don't feel you can deal with their rules and policies, go private adoption. There are requests for more closed and such than a lot of agencies would like to admit, I think. In fact, for the most part, the 18yrs of contact, and the 'more open' options, are those policies of the agency, rather than the birthmother/birthfather....but that's another issue. Sincerely, Linny

First of all, if you don't feel open is for you - than do not do it. You will find the right situation for your family. I have an open adoption - but mine was a newborn infant adoption. I can't relate to a situation where a birthfamily may have actually HARMED my child - I doubt I could handle an open situation in that case. I look at our adoption like this. M's birthfamily have always been kind to us. I met them before M was born - and liked them then. They are nice people. They have always been respectful to us. I see no reason to NOT want to have contact with them. I don't know how i'd feel if some of these things weren't the case. But for US, in OUR situation - open adoption has been good. I have gained from our situation being open. I do not think open is for everyone, and as long as you are honest - there is nothing to be ashamed of if you know that you want a closed adoption.

Back to re-read new posts - thanks everyone. We're now thinking in a more driver-oriented position. That is, we'll decide which level of openness we find acceptable, and tell that to the agency. Up to them to decide if it's better some children go without a home. We won't have this forced on us.