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Not sure where to post this, but I have been trying to process some things lately and where better to get advice than here, right? (I'll preempt this by saying that I am just asking for opinions, not trying to stir the pot or "pit" anyone against another) so here goes...
We have an OA with both our boys' firstmoms - on and off relationship with firstfathers. Little background - AJ's firstmom and firstfather weren't a couple when she got pregnant, and he (at 17) basically stepped away from any attempt at a relationship at that point - she was extremely resentful of this and up until about 6 months ago, wanted nothing to do with him (nor did she want us to have anything to do with him). Anyway, she found him, contacted him, he wanted to contact us, but that pretty much ended after a first letter.
JD's firstparents were together (very young) when he was born and broke up a year later - he pretty much dropped out of the pic but then reappeared recently for a brief phone call - then gone again.
Anyway, even when their firstmoms bring up their firstfathers, I don't continue the conversation because it's usually negative and I don't want that to be heard by the boys - I also don't want to get into a "gossip" situation with one parent (or their family) about the other. I have heard may times from both women that since the fathers weren't involved either during the pregnancy, during the adoption process (with AJ) or after the breakup (JD), the firstfathers don't "deserve" any consideration (don't like that word, deserve, but it is the one that's been used by both women).
So this has all brought about some heavy thinking in light of some of the past threads I've read or been involved in...Do firstfathers "deserve" as much as firstmothers? I have always given "respect" to the boys firstmoms since they parented the boys while pregnant and have been involved/loved the boys always, but what about the firstfathers who don't really feel that bond that the moms have felt from pregnancy on? Have I shortchanged them? Do firstmoms feel firstfathers "deserve" the respect and compassion that they (firstmoms) are fighting so hard for? (meaning the feelings I read on the threads from firstmoms).
As I said before - not trying to stir the pot - just trying to untangle this knotted mess of questions/emtions inside my mind...
Thanks!
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This is a hard one for me because I do believe that first fathers deserve respect, but my son's father does nothing and then lies to people about the situation.
I try not to talk to much with kiddo's parents about B because frankly it makes me too mad. There were ALOT of things that went wrong with our relationship and I'm still pretty angry about that if I get asked, even a year and a half later. Perhaps it has something to do with his harassment of me huh?
So ok, I would never speak badly of B in front of kiddo and I certainly don't expect his parents to take my "side". Someday if kiddo asks I'm going to have some VERY hard questions to answer about B, trust me, things that very few of you will have to answer, and believe me you want it that way.
love, if you want to talk further, I would be happy to via PM, however, the things that are in my past with B shouldn't be aired on a public board where my son may see them some day b/c they do pertain to him.
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Just another perspective. When I was pregnant, T's father didn't show much interest, apart from the fact he was there for the birth which I was pretty grateful for, or I would have been all alone and I was scared. I was 21 and he was 23 then. In those days DNA wasn't around and he offered to take the child and raise him via his parents, but considering what I knew of him, I became furious and didn't include him on the birth certificate and I denied him paternity. We'd both agreed that the child would be adopted, but then he appeared to change his mind, but a little resistance and he caved in, so I justified my actions by my perception of a feeble response. Fast forward 28 years and on behalf of my son who wanted to meet him, I managed to find him and contact him by email. He did not want to meet his son and referred to that period of time as quite painful with a full 28 years to try and forget it. It then hit me hard that he had feelings about it, but I was so engrossed into coping with what I felt was weighing heavily on my shoulders, I never gave it a thought that he would actually 'feel' anything about it!!. I just felt that 'being male' he wouldn't have feelings about anything, and felt if he'd shown a bit more interest at the time, maybe I may have felt differently, but I carried on in this ignorant fashion until his son showed a desire to meet him. So I guess what I am saying is that, what is true at the minute, may not be true when the adopted child is/may be ready to meet their parents/father. So I would say, bear this in mind for a future date. What may be an incompetent set of parents now, may mature as the years go by and they may 'deserve' to fit into the equation at a future date.
I guess my perspective may be a little different. I am a bmom, and the bdad was not aware until after I placed DD. I guess that each situation may be different, but does he "deserve" less respect than me??? I do not think so, I think that he deserves the same respect. As someone else stated he very well may have matured by the time contact is initiated.
I think it's easier for a birthfather to not be involved than a birthmother. I'm not saying it's easier on them, but an easier thing to happen. They don't carry the child - sometimes they may not even know about the child. They don't have to be involved in the process - an adoption can occur without their knowledge or consent.
All these things kinda lead to them have a roll that appears less "deserving" roles at times.....so it's easy to feel they aren't important.
I'm not saying they aren't important...but I can see how the idea happens.
In our situation....i don't have a good view of my sons birthfather. I honestly don't even think of him when I think/say M's birthfamily. I strictly am thinking of his maternal side. I have made a conscious effort to not think badly of him which has lead me to just not think of him. If he or his family were to ever contact us, I would absolutely be open to getting to know him - and hopefully on a more positive level....but until then, I honestly just don't think of him.
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I don't think a man automatically deserves respect just because he was the "birth" father. IMO: people deserve respect either because we are respecting them just because they are a human being or that they've earned it. May daughter’s “birth” father hardly deserves the title of human being let alone Father! We are not in an OA and the situation is completely different...my daughter’s father was a boy who denied paternity and ran. As a man won’t even acknowledge that there is a 1% chance that he’s the father...a 40 year old man that hides from me – won’t even call me on the phone or send me an email!
I’m in a wonderful reunion with my eldest daughter. So, I got in touch with her “birth” father, via his best friend that I managed to find and contact via email; I sent pictures of her, told them all about her, how happy and successful she was. I asked that he send just ONE picture in return – either old or new. I asked that either one of them tell me SOMETHING – ANYTHING about him...likes/dislikes, interests’/hobbies...ANYTHING that I could give her...one little tidbit...just something more than I could remember of this guy I dated for a few months 24 years ago! That’s all I wanted, that’s all she wanted...and nothing...not a word...not from either one of them.
So does HE deserve the same amount of respect or compassion as I do...No, not in MY case.
But every situation is different...and you have to be the judge of yours. IMO: OA presents its own set unique circumstances...assuming the point of an OA is so that the child will know their families then the opportunity to know these children should be equal....the men not be able to handle it right now (but hey, they’re just men! JUST KIDDING!!!!) But by only knowing their Mother’s your children are missing out on half of themselves...so I do think the fathers “deserve” some consideration there... And I fully support your decision to cut off any negative/gossip talk about the other parents – I commend you for do so because you are so right – it will only hurt your children and they WILL overhear it at some point, so good for you!!!
Ohh, this is such a hot button topic for me! My ex (DD's birthfather) was my ex before I learned I was pregnant. He was not there for me, and that was by choice, as I told him when I suspected I was pregnant. I'm sure he was scared and overwhelmed, but so was I. I never chose to exclude him. He chose to ignore me, he chose to accuse me of lying about the pregnancy and paternity (with no previous basis to think I was a liar, mind you) he chose not to travel to be there for her birth. His actions played a HUGE role as to why I did not explore parenting. He chose to consent to the adoption. He had the same opportunities that I did in regard to the OA, he chose not to take advantage. He chose not to call, not to ask for pics or updates. He refused to ask about her or let me speak about her. He doesn't even remember her birthday. About four years ago, he had an apparent change of heart, and wanted to know what he was "entitled" to (his words) as far as search and contact. So in my book, based on his choices, he is not deserving. He is not entitled to squat. But my daughter and her family ARE deserving of a relationship with him if that is what they want. And they are entitled to make up their own mind about his character. And he will have to be the one to explain his choices to them. A leopard doesn't change his spots, and I know that since he continues to treat me with disrespect even 16 years later, I'm fairly certain that his true colors will somehow come out. (in some ways they already have in regards of the way he went about first contact) Hopefully, it won't be at DD's expense. I try to keep him out of all communication with DD's mom, but she likes to bring him up from time to time. I think he has lead her to believe we are on friendly terms. When she does I try to politely remind her that he refuses to speak to me or acknowledge me, so that she understands that it is not a civil situation between us. I hate that she puts him on a pedistal, and I do wonder if he's thrown me under the bus to get up there. I'd love to pump her for info or badmouth him, but I think that shows disrespect for both DD and her mom and the role he has in her life, whether I like it or not. So I chose the highroad, and hope that actions speak louder than words.
This is a hard one for me.
He has NEVER gone on any of the visits even though they were open to him.
He NEVER went to counseling even though it was offered to him.
I just don't see why he has to be shown respect when he has shown none towards our daughter.
It has gotten to the point where they don't really ask about him anymore.
He hasn't lived up to his promises that he said he would do.
I have done everything so why should he be able to be shown respect for nothing that he has done.
His whole reaction to this is : Out of sight, out of mind.
Thanks, everyone - I didn't post this lightly because I was sure it would be a difficult subject to answer.
I don't broach the subject with the firstmoms because and like I said before, I don't want to be part of anymore he said/she said situations - we were caught up in that in the past and put a stop to it. I will forever keep an open door for a relationship with these men because they are my boys' fathers, and the boys are entitled to relationships if the occasions arise again in the future. That being said, we are not blind to the "faults" of the firstfathers, nor are we blind to the "faults" of the firstmoms, or OURSELVES for that matter.
What's so hard for me is that AJ's firstmom sees our "relationship" with AJ's firstfather as a betrayal - like by sending him letters, we are lessoning the pain he caused her during her pregnancy. There was a small window this summer where the two of them had contact, but now that seemed to have ended badly, so it is bringing up a whole slew of emotions again for her.
As for JD's firstmom, she's less vocal, but her parents (well, her father really) see it the same way. I told them that our relationship with them is completely separate than our relationship (or lack there of) with him and that we are just doing what we think is best for JD.
These are the two situations where the whole "They don't deserve the consideration" conversations came to play. Like HBV said, though, it's not about what the fathers deserve, but what the boys deserve.
We have come soo far in our OA's with the boys' firstmoms that this seems to be the one big hurdle that we can't overcome. I can see where they're coming from - that we should be angry on their behalf, but I have to try to put that aside because these men are still part of my boys.
UGH - deep thinking is hard!!! lol Thanks again everyone!
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Love, Logically I think we first mom's know that our kids "deserve" to have their first father's in their lives, but I know for me, the anger toward him makes it hard to be logical. I do remind myself daily that it isn't about what I want, but about what M wants and what he deserves.Again reminding myself that 17 yrs ago I did what I believed was in his best interest, why stop doing that now?Best of luck (((Hugs))))
Mommy24
Love, Logically I think we first mom's know that our kids "deserve" to have their first father's in their lives, but I know for me, the anger toward him makes it hard to be logical. I do remind myself daily that it isn't about what I want, but about what M wants and what he deserves.Again reminding myself that 17 yrs ago I did what I believed was in his best interest, why stop doing that now?
Best of luck (((Hugs))))
I am married to a "birth father". As far as the respect issue goes I have always felt that respect is earned. A small deed earns a small amount of respect, a large one earns more. It is a small deed to biologically father a child. It is a larger one to carry it to term and birth it. Many "birth fathers" are not even aware of what they have done until an adult offspring informs them. (as in my dh's case) One of the most admirable things I have seen my dh do is write a very touching letter to his bd's adoptive parents thanking them for taking responsibilty for something he felt he should have. He was only 15 and the girl didn't even tell him let alone involve him in any way. He and I have children and he feels very strongly about parental responsibility and was worried about what people would think about him when they found out he was a "birth father". So, yes, I do know that he would like to be respected. He has no expectation of ever being respected for being her father as in the one who raised her, supported her financially and spent her entire childhood with her. She is essentially a stranger with his dna. He has met her because she wanted to and given medical and family history. Other than that she is part of someone elses family. I do know that he has great respect for her adoptive parents. Just another perspective I wanted to show.
Love: I feel the same way you do----I feel like M got the short end of things, and she's on occasion tried to get me to put her in contact w/ H's bdad. I won't do it. It is hard not to get caught up or take sides---and I think you're right, there's sort of a "solidarity" there, but that's not my battle. This really was brought home to me during the "almost" placement of M's second child this fall. Knowing what I know now about the bdad of her second child, I would have had to struggle even harder with bdad #2 than I do w/ H's to find something good. The things he has done to M since the baby's birth are just intolerable. Makes me angry just to think about him.
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Mommy24
Love, Logically I think we first mom's know that our kids "deserve" to have their first father's in their lives, but I know for me, the anger toward him makes it hard to be logical. I do remind myself daily that it isn't about what I want, but about what M wants and what he deserves.Again reminding myself that 17 yrs ago I did what I believed was in his best interest, why stop doing that now?
Best of luck (((Hugs))))
It is helping me to understand and forgive E's biological father for trying to coerce E's birthmother into an abortion. I thought I could never forgive him for that but you know....for many reasons now that I know the families better I can kind of "understand" where he was coming from.
Yeah, this was very important for me to read.
Thanks again.