Can we be successful? Need Advice!

Exploding during therapy actually isn't necessarily bad. However, if you are concerned the therapist would respond badly to your thoughts of disruption, it might be wise to look into changing therapists. Most attachment therapists are open and use to this kind of discussion. Many parents, especially mothers of attachment disordered children feel like this from time to time and often feel like bad parents or at fault. Can you get respite care of any kind? Having a break might do some good and give you some time to consider your options. Only you can decide what the right answer is, and as a parent of rad kids, the right answer can change moment to moment. Sorry, I know that doesn't help much.

We made mistakes in the beginning too. Why does it have to hold you up now? Is there a status quo you think will be hard to change? Just do it and don't worry about it. I found that RAD kids are particularly easy to change the rules on, maybe because they never allow themselves to be comfortable in their situation. Their minds operate like yours would if you were living in a POW camp. The first thing our therapist taught us was how to handle the destructive rages--proper techniques for restraining him in a safe and loving way. Either it solved the problem because he raged when he felt out of control and needed to feel safe (I wish) or it solved the problem because he didn't want to be held (more likely). I'll take it either way. After that we added structure, lots and lots of it and gradually reduced privileges as he showed us he couldn't handle them. Our therapist supported us and gave us ideas through the whole process. We allowed him to just listen and not engage in therapy for awhile. He still learned that way. But eventually, as things stabilized, we created a "work in therapy or work at home" policy that finally got him to open his mouth.

Before I write more, let me say I'm coming from the angle of disruption/dissolution...big time. Our family endured a severely affected RAD child for almost four years and nearly lost our minds. Yes, we had a good attachment therapist. Yes, we did holdings and talk and working out emotions....and in the end, the child went into RTC (residential) and never came back out. The child literally grew up in RTC because he was unable to live in a traditional home. Back then, there weren't places to even entertain the thought of disruption/dissolution and so, we lived in fear for our other children for many years until it was obvious the child would never come back to our home. I wouldn't have wished any of that on my worst enemy. Really. I personally do not believe severely affected RAD kids can heal after a certain age. I understand your feelings in feeling guilty. When we had our RAD, it was just becoming a condition that was talked about----even though our Attachment therapist told us our type of parenting was already good in parenting RAD kids. Would we have been easier and more understanding? Yes. There are certainly events I KNOW I would have changed; but in the end, I don't think it would have mattered. Our own attachment therapist said she felt all had been done that COULD be done. When we first had him admitted into RTC...I told the psychiatrist, "I suppose you think we're horrible parents...' And he said, "No. On the contrary. I think you've lived more of this child's life than HE has." I could tell you more, but only YOU know of course, how much more you can take. I DO believe there comes a point where people just can't stand each other anymore. Few talk about this, but it's true. And, if that's the case, I'd strongly encourage you to disrupt/dissolve your adoption. To me, if you wake in the morning thinking you can't face another day with this child...that's a good indication. One mother of a RAD once wrote to me that these feelings and decisions are ones few adoptive moms like to talk about. Yes, they're there.....but of course, those of us who choose to disrupt are often looked down upon, considered harsh and unloving and certainly NOT committed. Don't believe it. In our case, the system literally lied to us about the child's previous life. Had we known, we'd have not adopted him because he was FAR beyond the needs we felt we could handle. I've been told by therapists his behaviors are FAR above what they've seen too. If you choose to continue, do the best you can and hang in there. Things might get better. If you choose to disrupt/dissolve...do NOT feel guilty. As Lucy writes, there are kids who simply cannot bond, regardless of what we try/tried. You probably know in your gut what you can take and what you can't. If you choose to continue, I think it fair to realize as Lucy states, parenting won't be what you think it will be. Life with RAD children is seldom fun and/or easy....no matter how old they get. Most Sincerely, Linny

I don't want to give advice on such a personal decision. I just want to say that you are not alone. None of us have the experience or training needed to be psychiatrists to our kids! I am just wondering if it would help you to find one thing that HAS improved for your son. I have often felt that nothing has changed until I looked back at previous posts here and then I realize that my DD no longer picks under my fingernails when she is sitting next to me. OH, and they used to have very disgusting bathroom issues that have completely dissappeared! Even those small things can create big hope in my heart for my kids. So sorry you are going through this.

We cared for a RAD child for nineteen months and finally requested he be removed (at four and a half) my wife was scared to death of him, and truly worried he would kill her in her sleep one day. He had no conscience, and experienced thirty to forty five minute rages several times a week. While a RAD child can be taught how to behave, they cannot be taught to feel empathy for others. Ultimately you have to do what is necessary to keep the other members of your family safe from harm... There is a blog called Watching the Waters by a RAD mom who is articulate and experienced. It's worth reading whAt she has to say.

OK, I just have to say that I disagree wholeheartedly with that statement. How can you say that a 4 yr old child is incapable of changing (learning empathy)? I do not judge you for your decision one bit and, yes, you have to keep the rest of the family safe. You obviously tried for 19 months and simply did not have what this child needed to help him heal. (Many times us foster parents don't have the skills we need to care for such special needs children) But, I believe that there is ALWAYS hope for a child. They CAN heal, they CAN develop a conscience, and they CAN grow up to be productive members of society. Yes, they will still have scars and struggles the rest of their lives, but NO they are not doomed to a life of crime because they had a rough beginning.

MyForeverKids, your insults and ignorance are shocking. "if we had only been better parents, or had better skills, or were a better fit." and I love the "how dare I" think the child won't change. My wife had trouble sleeping at night because she was afraid the four year old would come in and cut her throat. One day he threw the cat off the second floor balcony and told the therapist how much he enjoyed hearing the cat go "splat". I watched him put his two year old sister in a scissor lock and pull back on her throat with both arms till she turned blue. Yes I know he will make progress. He may even, after years of therapy, be able to live in normal society. But his issues were serious enough that he was a danger to himself and everyone around him, and a danger to everyone in the family. He was actually more a sociopath than just a RAD child. Removing him was gut wrenching, we loved him to death. My wife and I work from home and he got more attention than any child I know. I absolutely refuse to feel guilty that parenting him while keeping our other kids safe was impossible. It wasn't just a lack of empathy, most young kids are very self absorbed, but he had no conscience. He viewed other children like he would inanimate objects, something to be used and manipulated, and he derived great pleasure from inflicting emotional and physical pain. What made it possible for us to continue to work with him so long, was that we recognized that NONE of his behaviors were his fault. He had been raped, tortured, and neglected. He also witnessed even worse abuse on his sister, and I think that was actually harder on him. For you to judge me so harshly, with so little understanding of RAD is grossly insulting, but you know, many other supposed professionals questioned us until we could share hard evidence. We really really love him, and for his sake, I pray that you're right.

I think until someone lives a day in your shoes - they should not pass judgment. My oldest son has attachment issues and I have had friends make comments to me about how they don't believe me when things are bad (he goes through cycles). But in the past few months I've heard those same friends make comments to new people in my life about "Yeah, you can't imagine he would be like that until you're around to witness it yourself...." So for anyone that judges you and insults you - just realize how clueless they are because they've never been anywhere close to where you were and they really have no idea what it's like to live like that. I'm sorry for your loss, and for his and his sisters. My son isn't that bad, they removed his RAD diagnosis years ago and therapists say that they think one day he'll sort of "wake up" and understand and be more "normal" - they just think it'll be a few more years.

i completely understand. the first 6 months dd lived with us, i worked at a different school...she went to before school care to a LARGE family. i feel like we really blew it there by letting someone else care for her. they were also foster parents....and i don't think that helped. i really do think that set us back....but the bottom line is i did the best i could at that time, then got a job at her school. i can't change what happened....and if i am honest with myself i know it DID make an impact on our situation, but it did not cause it. i understand wanting to disrupt. i was there more than once. after 2 years we had still not finalized my doctor actually told me, for my health, i needed to disrupt and not adopt her. there was another time she had run away from home, wanted to kill herself, was hurting the children and animals in my home, manipulating, lying, threatening, attempting to get me in trouble and side line the adoption of my baby. at night i slept behind a locked door with the baby. there were times i was actually afraid. times i monitored her every move. times she had to be in line of sight supervision. times she couldn't even go to school. but....we did recover some. one thing that i think helped us- homeschool. i think when people say a RAD kid needs to receive their only care from parents.....they mean 24/7....which meant no teachers, no lunch ladies, no yard supervisors, no school nurse, just us. it was tiring....but after almost 1 1/2 of that we saw HUGE improvements. even then, we saw the most signs of hope and normalness just this past year, SEVEN years after she was placed with us. she is now 15.....and although life is still tough, it is much more calm and normal than i could have ever ever ever ever imagined. i see a light at the end of the tunnel...and it isn't me just counting the days until she has to move out...it is me seeing that she just might make it in this world. i think she might go to college, get a job, have a future. maybe. it took us so long to get there....and we had to get over so many times when i wanted to disrupt, when her doctor wanted her in a facility, when she didn't want to be here. when we first decided to homeschool her, the thought of spending more time with her and never having time for myself made me think of leaving my family. not kidding. i thought i'd lose my mind. i think i hated her. she definitely hated me. it seemed insane to think that the solution would be to spend more time with her.....but it really did help. it was the first time in years that i actually found out one ONE good thing about her. before then....i couldn't have told you one good thing about her. not one thing she was good at or one thing she liked. she still doesn't trust me completely, but she trusts me more than she did in the beginning. i love her and like her. i don't think she loves me, but i think she likes me a little. lol. i don't think she sees me as a mom, but i don't think she is going to kill me. so that's a start. i don't think we are completely bonded together....but i do sense her bondING. me too. i think i am bondING. a work in progress for both of us i guess. it has been a long road, and i know there is still such a long way to go...but i am glad i hung there. that being said, i absolutely do believe there are some children who will never bond. and i believe that sometimes children and parents need to start over. in the end you are the only one who can make the decision on what to do with your family. but please do yourself a favor regardless of what you decide to do. take a break first. get someone to watch him, and do not care what they will do- take him for ice cream and a movie? great....you need a pedicure and a cup of coffee with a friend. i did this just once. i decided i would deal with the set backs it would cause us LATER, bc i needed a break NOW. if i don't take care of myself, i am not prepared to parent her.good luck and (((hugs))). i know it is hard.

Can you be successful? First you have to define success. Will he ever love you like a healthy child? Maybe not. Will your family ever be normal? Maybe not. Will your son be a productive member of society as an adult. Maybe not. Then again, maybe all these things will happen. No one can predict with certainty. Only you can define success for yourself. I had a therapist tell me that her son was in prison. He called her every weekend just to talk and touch base with her. She considered this success. She took on a child with no connections to anyone and he now has a connection with her. I too did not do any serious attachment parenting for the first two years my daughter was with me. She was in school and in before and after care. I knew she had attachment issues, but I just buried my head in the sand. I thought that if I ignored it, it would go away. Well, we all know how that works. A friend of mine, from this forum, kicked me in the butt and I sought help. I still do a lot of "what if-ing". Yesterday I took my daughter shopping for a swim suit. She chose a very appropriate one. She said that she didn't want to look slutty. That is HUGE for her. Success? I kind of think so. I know that I have rambled here, but I guess I'm trying to say that only you can decide if this placement needs to be disrupted. Are you in too deep? No one can answer that except you. I do have a problem with the following:While it is true that sometimes the parents don't have the skills, it is also true that sometimes the kids can't heal. Some kids can't live in a family. Don't judge. As foster or adoptive parents, we didn't create these issues. We are just doing our best to help the kids. Instead of putting parents down, we should all be realizing that we are doing the best that we can.

Thanks 2Js. I think the saddest part of the whole thing was, if CPS had properly assessed him, he might have gotten greater permanence, and continued on his road to recovery faster.The hardest part for the whole family, was that he sucked up ALL available time, energy, and attention, leaving virtually nothing for all the other kids in the house, negatively impacting their healing and development. That's probably the biggest issue for a family to consider. As parents, we can make a conscious choice to tolerate just about anything, but we also have a responsibility to provide a safe and loving home for the rest of our children. We heard later that CPS botched the case, and both kids were returned to their parents. I now have a Goole alert for their names and the town they live in, and sadly I won't be surprised to see some tragedy in the news. The level of disbelief, by friends and professionals was a surprise. The isolation was difficult. Your friends stop calling, you dread a call from school, the umpteenth school. Even our church preschool wouldn't take him during service much lass as a student. It gave us fret insight into what the families of ALL special needs kids go through. We found a new church in our area, and have committed ourselves to building an orphan ministry to support foster kids and parents. We're also working with the children's program to put together a respite program at least once a month, and creating an inclusion program so that special needs kids can participate with their peers and not be isolated. Just trying to make a positive impact one day at a time.

OK, HELLLLLOOOOOOO! You have NO IDEA what I have lived!!! I have put locks on the inside of my bedroom door and my kitchen knives in a lock box so I could sleep at night and not worry that my 11 yr old was going to act out his drawing of me in real life! And, I stated clearly that I do not judge the decision to disrupt when the family is not safe. The ONLY thing I DID say was that I disagree with a broad sweeping statement that RAD children cannot be taught empathy. The Original Poster has not indicated a lack of safety or violence in her home. You cannot assume that because your child had other issues going on that ALL children with RAD are incapable of learning empathy. That there is no hope for healing. Why do any of us foster it there is no hope??? Obviously, hdc's child had a heck of a lot more going on than RAD. So, don't put words in my mouth please and don't assume I have not been there. There were no insults in my statement. A child with that much going on mentally should never have been placed in a traditional foster home, especially with younger children. That was the agencies fault not the foster parents. I did not say that the poster did not love the child enough! My sister's son has been in residential care for 2 yrs now because I pushed, and begged and pleaded with her to do it. For him and for her two younger kids. He needed 24/7 therapy! How could a parent do that? She did not have what he needed! THAT is what I meant.

I am VERY VERY sorry that you took offense to what I said. I did not mean at all that you could have done something differently that would have magically cured this child. I have lived with two very RAD kids and I know better than to think that you could love them out of it. Admitting that I could not help my foster son was comforting to me. I did not have what he needed (which was 24/7 supervision and intensive therapy) and the relief was freeing! WE did not create the problem and sometimes WE don't have the solution. WE are on the same team here. I did not mean to insult or attack you. I took offense to what YOU said because I face this type of sweeping conclusion every day of my life about my kids and previous foster kids. We have "friends" who avoid us. I guess they think that my damaged kids have some kind of contagious disease that will spread to their "perfect" children. That their kids will start behaving this way just by being around my kids or something. It hurts to take on such a big job and then be shunned. My father in law truely thinks that my 6 yr old daughter is going to be promiscuous. She is SIX for God's sake. Don't assume that my RAD daughter will never learn empathy because your RAD child was severely mentally disturbed. I fight this every day. I MUST have hope. I cannot get through my day with out hope and your statement to the original poster is a hope killer.:( The OP has not said that her son is violent or tortures animals or anyting of the sort. She said he has RAD. That is not a "death" sentence. If she were describing the scene you dealt with, I would tell her without reservation to find a residential placement. Since she has not said any of that, I do not want her to feel like her son is a lost cause. I applaud you for continuing to help children. I love what you are doing in your church. I know a lot of people who would have come away from your type of situation angry and bitter and never wanting anything to do with the system ever again!

It looks like from your post that you are a single mom? DO you have any kind of support system? Is there a grandpa, Uncle...that would commit to being a male role model for him, taking him once a week to give you a break and backing you up on discipline? Could he stay with someone for a little while in the summer. Sometimes a a little abscense like that can break a cycle that is going on or give you enough time to regroup and start fresh when he returns. The reason I ask is because, one, I cannot fathom how hard it must be to do it alone. Second, when my son starts acting up with me or disrespecting me, it takes about a 5 minute talk with dad or grandpa and he is back to the sweet little boy I knew was in there! Not that I can't handle myself, trust me :eyebrows: , but there is just something about a male that makes little boys want to respect mom. As far as the attatchment goes: If you haven't seen results from 2 yrs of therapy, I would be moving on. Well, I hadn't heard any more from you so I just wanted to check in. I don't know what all your options are or what you have tried, I just thought I'd let you know that I am "listening". I have been pretty close to disrupting in the past and I know it is an aweful, horrrible feeling!

I think there's a lot to be said in repeating what Lucy wrote about-----It really does depend on what you consider 'success'. And, on top of that, I could write about successes in what one of my children has done (nothing to do about attachment); but this is also a child that's easy to love, easy to hold, cuddle, etc. The affection is reciprocal. Dealing with RAD children is not so. True RAD children are seldom 'fun' to parent. The parent becomes the warden, the counselor, the 'person who cannot show hurt' when they really DO feel hurt. I don't believe RAD children can be healed after a certain age. I don't believe they can be taught 'empathy' after a certain age. To repeat what one psychiatrist said to dh and me: "You can teach a baby bird to fly....but there's only a certain time frame in which to do so. If it's not achieved during that frame of time, the bird doesn't learn to fly'. Additionally: "We might be able to teach your son to often turn 'right'---IF we give him some reward for doing so-----BUT, he'll only turn 'right' because of the reward, NOT because he feels his actions are the moral or correct thing to do....it'll only be because of the reward he'll get.' IMO, if the child isn't taught or able to feel empathy at a very young age, that caring or sense of conscience isn't going to come. Sincerely, Linny